Darth Revan Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Back in my day, war stat threads were about war stats. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted November 6, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 6, 2018 Ok boys and girls pull up a chair grandpa SRD has some wisdom and history to impart on you because some of you are misinformed, some of you are kinda right, and lets talk about Grumpy. Before we get to the ole Grump, lets go back to a time when a retired SRD was chillin at VE some 800-900 days ago. We had just gotten out of a war led by Moonie, where our blitz amounted to Moonie posting in chat that rose rolled in and we need to attack somebody, i dont even remember who anymore. Needless to say our blitz was garbage, and so was our entire war effort, we were plagued by inactives and frankly the leadership at the time was not great/active due to personal reasons we aren't going to get into. It was around this time actually it was a little before this war that I had decided to start my own alliance, but I procrastinated and got sucked into the war, but that is neither here nor there. So post war I created Grumpy Old Bastards and with me came a few of our upper tier nations that were like me dissatisfied with the status quo, (which includes goldie who told me he was just going to quit the game if I hadn't created a new alliance.) So this is the first alliance I had ever created on my own, and when making it, I wanted to make an alliance that does exactly what I would want if I joined it, which was a small active group of 12-15 people all around my size so that we could work together and kick ass in a war, that was my number one goal. On top of that there are some other things in there I also wanted to see. One, No taxes. Ever. At grumpy we have a saying. That saying is the best person to spend your money is you. I was sick of paying taxes and seeing them go to people that would quit in a week or go inactive after a few months, that is all wasted money in my opinion, but it was the cost of doing business in a mass recruitment alliance, and Grumpy wasn't going to be one of those. 2nd Step, I was sick of dealing with people that are never online which makes fighting a war much more difficult than it needs to be, so that means, to join, you gotta be daily active. If you can't log in once a day, I don't want you. Step 3, due to the no tax thing, anyone that joins needs to understand the importance of warchests so they need to be big enough to be self sufficient (hence the self sufficient thing that used to be on our main page that you guys liked to twist to your own uses). Step 4, which goes along with Step 3 is I am sick of teaching new/small players how to play, and dealing with new/small player crap, and basically any of the work that goes with dealing with new/small players, I had been doing it for years and I was done. So I added a 10 million dollar membership fee, with the hope that it would discourage new players, and the type of players I wanted to attract wouldn't give a crap because 10 million should have been about a day's worth of income, and it would help build a cash bank that could be used for 0 interest loans. I have no interest in taking over the world or being number one, I just want to have a small lean alliance that could do some damage in a war, so with that in mind I wanted to go paperless with secret treaties because I figured it would be more interesting, and we may get involved with some things that if we were in a paper block would never come about. The last thing I wanted with my alliance is to have an extremely loose opsec policy, which basically consists of, if you ever want to know something just ask and unless I have been sworn to secrecy by another alliance leader, I will tell my members anything and everything that is going on. Which I know has led to some consternation with my allies because I make no secret about the fact that I will tell my guys just about everything as long as there are no leaks. (it's also why Shifty will never be a member of Grumpy, who also has applied to grumpy, and was turned down fyi. Leak that fool!) I do this because I only really wanted experienced active players and it would be to my advantage to leverage their experience when it came to dealing with OPSEC type stuff. With those tenants in place Grumpy was created. In terms of our FA when we first formed being a small upper tier alliance we needed someone to protect us from test who at the time was around 45 members strong, and had their sights on wanting to raid us, because they are and still are today opportunistic and will hit anyone they think they can get away with hitting without taking any real damage. So really the only alliance with enough political clout to tell Test to go screw was TKR, and while at the time I wanted nothing to do with TKR, I didn't see I had much of a choice. So with that we became a protectorate of TKR, and to their credit, they did a fantastic job, New alliances that want a protector you guys should go to TKR. But you know Test was still a threat so in secret we started talking to other small upper tier alliances, and we actually formed a secret upper tier bloc to fight Test in-case they get a little too testy. Eventually we took a survey of the alliances in orbis, and asked ourselves who is out there that we know can throw down, and is also big enough so that we can fight with? Honestly I don't want to ally someone that I cannot fight with, why would I want to ally a lower tier IQ alliance, who had existed for quite some time now, who I would realistically never be able to fight with due to the differences in our nations? So we reached out to Guardian, because as former members of VE who had clashed with them numerous times, we knew that size wise we were a good fit, and they were dependable war partners. We got up to around 10-12 members and Test had quit like the opportunistic scumbags they were and still are today, so we didn't see the need to stay a TKR protectorate (which honestly we were for longer than we should have been) and we upgraded to the standard Grumpy, we got your back, if you got ours treaty, they exceeded our expectations as a protectorate and they deserved it. So to those that complain that we are allied to people that are our size, you are correct we are, because I want allies I can fight with in the trenches because that is much more fun than fighting by myself. I think that covers basically what grumpy is and what I was trying to build and why I do what I do. Now to address some of the shenanigans above. I think it was Roq that was saying that the Grumpy model is unsustainable, because people quit and lose interest after time. This is true, but that is also why I am extremely selective about who I accept, and why I do my best to keep my players involved and I basically let them do whatever they want. Do we make suggestions to improve? we do, do we have warchest standards and military mins? we do, but I am fairly lax on most of that as long as they are active, and they all are. (if you look at grumpy's roster, you will see everyone is either yellow, green or blue, at most you may see 1 orange, but that is about it. How many of you guys out there can say that? I am going to say... just about none of you, including CoS and Test) I find when you keep your members involved and feeling like they are contributing to our success its much easier to retain them. Unlike the crazy tax rate alliances, that have cookie cutter nation builds and control every aspect of their growth, I don't understand how that is even remotely fun for the average member. It may have something to do with the fact that I have been told that Grumpy is the best alliance people have even been in, and why we have had a total of 3 members leave in the last 2 years. (damn you tywin quitting the game raising the number to 3) I also laugh at those that say we don't want to fight in wars, have you ever met me? I love me some war, peace time is only good for preparing to fight in the next war. If we didn't like war we wouldn't have fought in this war, I knew going in we were going to lose, I mentioned it multiple times in this forum, if I operated like super dynamic Test, god knows I would have never joined in, like when they skipped the war where TKR rolled what ever Ros Wei is called now. We would have also avoided the nuke block war, I went into that war knowing that we were not going to offer peace until we ate every single one of their nukes. And when they ran out, we peaced out. I believe only maybe Partisan and whoever was running TKR at the time know this, but when our friends in Hogwarts and TKR where in a bit of a tiff, I straight up told TKR that if anyone I was not allied to hit Hogwarts, Grumpy would attack them, and I 100 percent would have even if that meant getting losing which it probably would have. (which I am glad we didn't have to, because if I rolled into a war only to have Hogwarts disband, I would have been PISSED!) If we are being honest, I am actually pretty happy we are getting rolled this war, some of my members aren't as battle tested as I would like, and I have been told by others outside of Grumpy that some of them are infra huggers. You guys are doing me a favor, its easy to be grumpy when we win, but the ones that want to stay grumpy when we lose are the ones I truly want. As for the accusation that I dislike newer players, I do. I wont deny it, they are a pain in the ass, and I don't have the patience to deal with them anymore, one of the best parts about grumpy is that because we have good experienced players, it basically runs itself, i dont need to babysit, or deal with stupid drama because everyone knows whats up, and what they are doing. As for thinking we are elite and better than everyone else, guilty as charged, because hell ya I do. And if you don't think the same about your alliance, maybe you should think about what you are doing. I think we proved it this war, our eliteness (if that is a word) allows us to roll all of Test and CoS in 2 days (granted their opening attack strategy was terrible, so that was super helpful) it's why we can embarrass Fark and instantly counter and cover their upper tier when they tried to do... well who knows what they tried to do. So you are correct, I think we are better than you. The other advantage of having an upper tier alliance, is I don't have to really give a crap about about 80 percent of the alliances out there, because mechanically you are not any real threat to grumpy, which includes pretty much all of IQ, which always makes me laugh when they view us as some sort of threat to them, i couldn't really care less about what IQ does, because I cant hit them even if I wanted to, even with them militarized we still cant get low enough to hit them. As for Grumpy being bad for the game, that is some fine politicking you guys are doing. Its not my job as an alliance leader to lose, my job is to put my alliance in a position to succeed, it's your job to take us down if you think we deserve to be hit. So to say we are hiding behind our allies is super hypocritical, because if we are guilty of that every single alliance that has at least one treaty is doing the exact same thing. If you want to compare treaties, I can tell you right now, that we have less treaties than every single one of top 20 alliances, not including those that say they are actually paperless, if that is to be believed or not. I think that is a long enough wall of text, it actually saved someone from getting hit tonight because I was going to drop down and pick up a target or two, so you guys are welcome. And if anything doesn't make sense that i wrote above, my bad, but this thing is so long now, even I don't want to go back and reread it. I look forward to people taking statements I made above and turning them for their own political purposes. Since this is a Warstats thread, and it seems that i am the only one that posts warstats, here is another one for you. I have 33 cities, every single one of those cities has been nuked so far this war, and currently 3 of those 33 have been nuked twice! 2 6 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: -snip- Congratulations on rolling people you outnumbered in their tier with downdeclares. Let's all celebrate the skill IQ showed in shredding TKRs middle and lower tier as well, since we're basically handing out trophies it seems. Before somebody tries and pulls some bullshit with numbers. CoS/TEst = 60 players. 23-24ish and 21-22ish average cc respectively. Guardian - 49 players, average cc of 26. Grumpy, who we didn't hit but knew would counter - 27 players, average cc of 30. Tesla, who pulled a Spanish Inquisition - 19 players, city 22 average. So congrats on winning a fight you were supposed to win and had a massive advantage in, but please, don't let facts stop you from touting it like you slew a mighty dragon. Edited November 6, 2018 by Akuryo Snipping is hard on mobile smh 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: -whale noises- >flexing about stats Alright, see, here's something important about your stats: They're not important. Not even a little bit. You're not important, not even a little bit. You're not relevant, not even a little bit at this point. You don't interact with the game in any meaningful way. You've even managed to prevent yourselves from actually fighting any wars at all; since the best you can ever even hope to do is get suicide declared on by nations far smaller than you who are prepared to launch nukes and nothing further. That's not war since it's not a challenge, that's just your opponents giving you the finger. You certainly can't declare any wars yourselves, you've scored yourselves out of that, so if you love war so much... why do you work so hard to avoid it? This is a game, and to play a game there MUST be a challenge. There's no challenge for you right now, not even a little bit. There inevitably will be, however. Sadly (for you), it seems that hasn't happened yet. >flexing about activity levels I honestly don't even know what your pride about activity levels is even for. You hug your pixels too tightly to have any use for the login bonus, you overbuild your cities to where you don't need to check or reconfigure production focus, so what benefit does activity really serve in your case? Just check your e-mail every day and if there's nothing from the notification system then that tells you everything you need to know. More than that, you don't have a monopoly on competence or activity. Just because other alliances tolerate activity levels below the login bonus doesn't mean that their most active members are equally casual. >flexing about taxes and hating on noobs You keep going on and on about how you're some kind of economic savant and a leader of a business, which has been bothering me for some time now since you seem to be equating risk with waste. They're... not the same thing, you know? Investing in your own growth is indeed low risk, but it is also low reward (In fact it is arguably detrimental, but I'll keep this to economics). In case you somehow hadn't known, this is because due to the diminishing returns at your scale, the RoI on any investment in your own city count/land/infra is far, far slower than the same investment would be in anyone else. Every other alliance understands this, even if they take different approaches to risk-management. Now, it is indeed true that any investment in someone that isn't yourself is a risk, but that doesn't guarantee that you won't see returns. The actual risks are surprisingly small, in fact; and the rewards are extraordinary. Speaking of... >flexing about city average To my understanding, efficient risk management and economic strategy grounded in actual math has resulted in Syndisphere , IQ, and TKRsphere(defined here as TKR and TCW) each having more money in their banks, stashes and warchests than GoB has in city value and infrastructure. If they wanted to give up on waging war and tiering themselves out of relevance for years, any of them could easily defeat you by simply building two clones of GoB in their gov and most active members. You're not at an unreachable height, you're simply at a height not worth reaching. Yet. >posting stats At this point, you're transparently trying to use random and unimportant factoids to justify your baiting and derailment. Less than 1% of your post was relevant to war stats, and the remaining 99% was bait and derailment, just like the last several times you've posted ITT. Tl;dr: stop derailing pls. Edited November 6, 2018 by Sir Scarfalot lol email protection 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8mrgrim8 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Akuryo said: Congratulations on rolling people you outnumbered in their tier with downdeclares. Let's all celebrate the skill IQ showed in shredding TKRs middle and lower tier as well, since we're basically handing out trophies it seems. Before somebody tries and pulls some bullshit with numbers. CoS/TEst = 60 players. 23-24ish and 21-22ish average cc respectively. Guardian - 49 players, average cc of 26. Grumpy, who we didn't hit but knew would counter - 27 players, average cc of 30. Tesla, who pulled a Spanish Inquisition - 19 players, city 22 average. So congrats on winning a fight you were supposed to win and had a massive advantage in, but please, don't let facts stop you from touting it like you slew a mighty dragon. wait what Guardian has an average cc of 26? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buorhann Posted November 6, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 6, 2018 I never understood players who say they love to war, but grow out of the majority of ranges. I've personally fought in every major war since Mensa joined the game except this latest one against TKR and Friends, and I've remained at 16/17 cities for... what... 3 years now almost? 3 6 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 53 minutes ago, 8mrgrim8 said: wait what Guardian has an average cc of 26? Mhm, according to the sheets we had they were just over 26, and Grumpy was almost at 31. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betulius Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 hours ago, LordMane611 said: haha i am back to the game what happened with the previous alliances? this political scene is different haha you all lucky my account is in vacation That's one hell of a vacation. 1 4 Quote Dec 26 18:48:22 <JacobH[Arrgh]> God your worse the grealind >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Spaceman Thrax Posted November 6, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: -snip- I'm gonna like this post even though there's some garbage in it because I do dig the effort. Some thoughts: I appreciate you as a player. Some people get on the margins of being nasty to you, but my earliest memory of you is being allied to you here while literally fighting you in another game, and that not being at all contentious. You clearly understand it's a game and in good fun, and I appreciate that a lot. Your argument about Test, I mean, I was there for Test becoming a bloated mess and essentially bullying smaller alliances in the upper tier. I didn't like it either, because it wasn't competitive. In your thinking, how does allying so much of the upper tier with your own alliance make you anything different from what Test used to be? The way I see it, you're even more bloated and non-competitive, and you've pretty much bluntly said you think lopsided wars are great. But your issue with Test is that they were opportunistic... what is it that you think your alliance is? it's cool you're proud of your alliance and I love the fact that you made it in your own image, and that you have ideals. i just happen to think most of your ideals are crumby and backwards. To your point about activity.... Tywin literally went to your alliance because he knew he wouldn't have to do anything. I'm sure he's not the only one. When you have relatively few members, the proportions get a little wonky... like, sorry, you say tomato, I say "about 5% of your alliance deserted as soon as you were going to get rolled." In a game where some alliances are getting flak for what is effectively a 10% VM ratio, well, we're talking about a question of sample size rather than a difference of type, essentially. As for the jab at my alliance's war performance.... I mean our stats are garbage, yes. We're trying to win the war, not pad stats. I'm glad you have great stats, but we knew our infra was forfeit from the getgo. We don't care if it's your alliance or another one that happens to explode it nearly as much as you seem to. Our initial strategy was designed around that, allowing the other fronts to get cleaned up while you and guardian were distracted with us, a numerically inferior force (and you had to bring Tesla, as well), so I'm plenty happy with how things have gone. Edited November 6, 2018 by Spaceman Thrax 13 Quote Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 12 hours ago, Akuryo said: Congratulations on rolling people you outnumbered in their tier with downdeclares. Let's all celebrate the skill IQ showed in shredding TKRs middle and lower tier as well, since we're basically handing out trophies it seems. Before somebody tries and pulls some bullshit with numbers. CoS/TEst = 60 players. 23-24ish and 21-22ish average cc respectively. Guardian - 49 players, average cc of 26. Grumpy, who we didn't hit but knew would counter - 27 players, average cc of 30. Tesla, who pulled a Spanish Inquisition - 19 players, city 22 average. So congrats on winning a fight you were supposed to win and had a massive advantage in, but please, don't let facts stop you from touting it like you slew a mighty dragon. Lets talk actual averages now, because both CoS and Test have nations we cant hit because they are too small for us and we also hit Rose, and tS (whats up with 5 CoS nations in VM mode? And you guys say Grumpy are the war dodging infra huggers?) So on day 1 of the war our 26 members hit 41 unique nations with an average city count of 27.2439 we had I believe an average city count of about 30.8. In case you wanted the real numbers. As to scarfs wall of text, You guys need to make up your minds, either we are relevant and terrible for the game or we are not relevant at all. Figure it out and get back to me when you guys have come up with an answer, and to be honest I don't have an issue if we aren't relevant, but the evidence seems to point otherwise. As far this being a game, and their needs to be a challenge, not everyone has the same goals as you, some of my guys like to grow and buy cities, the challenge for them is to have the most cities in the game. You want to stay at 12 cities and brag about launching missiles, the difference between you and I, is I don't care when you brag about launching your missiles, if you find that fun good on you. As for activity levels, my member's obviously have something to do, if its play the market or work on building their cities. That daily activity is also pretty important when war rolls around, all 26 of my guys participated day 1 in our war. The golden horde, who brags (and boy do you guys do brag about it) about their love of war have been in a war for a day or two now, and still have a number of guys that don't have any wars or have even logged in. That is what I am bragging about. I do not claim to be an economic savant, the exact opposite, my econ strategy is to get out of the way and let people do what they want with their money. If we see something weird in a nation we will say something and if someone asks for help we give it, but that is about all Grumpy Gov does besides give out interest free loans. All the nation growth you see from my members is experienced players spending their money how they want. Am I proud that my alliance was able to achieve something no alliance in the game has ever done, (which is have a city average over 30) why wouldnt I be proud of that? We started at around 20-21, and in 2 years increased it to over 30, I think that is pretty impressive and should be celebrated. Those city averages also seem to be pretty important considering just above your post Akuyo was complaining about our city count advantage as it pertains to war. Lastly! This is a warstats page, so I post war stats, I seem to be the only one doing it, and I noticed your post was entirely dedicated to shitting on me and my alliance, and you posted 0 war related stats, so I guess maybe you should take your own advice. (note the warstats listed above) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcKnox Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 >bunch of shit about tgh We filled every defensive slot of TRF. Should we have hit another alliance just so everyone could get a war? I'll also tell LR2 that he needs to frick off with this "military deployment" bullshit and be more active or we're going to kick him. 1 Quote Praise Dio. Every !@#$ing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Spaceman Thrax said: As for the jab at my alliance's war performance.... I mean our stats are garbage, yes. We're trying to win the war, not pad stats. I'm glad you have great stats, but we knew our infra was forfeit from the getgo. We don't care if it's your alliance or another one that happens to explode it nearly as much as you seem to. Our initial strategy was designed around that, allowing the other fronts to get cleaned up while you and guardian were distracted with us, a numerically inferior force (and you had to bring Tesla, as well), so I'm plenty happy with how things have gone. I understand that it was your goal, but Grumpy's goal was to do as much damage as possible as fast as possible because we didn't know how long we had due to your overwhelming numbers before you guys turn the war around. Which we knew was only a matter of time. It's why we roll in with attrition, because we care less about losing our expensive infra than we care about blowing up yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: The golden horde, who brags (and boy do you guys do brag about it) about their love of war have been in a war for a day or two now, and still have a number of guys that don't have any wars or have even logged in. That is what I am bragging about. Alongside with TKR and KT, we fought in the most wars this year. In fact, where were you during the year lull of no activity? Jerking it off with your upper tier consolidation. Nothing about GoB tells me you love to fight. Ever since your time in VE, you’ve been scrapping by trying to find a way out or to get a easy win in. I still remember when you came up to us in Syndisphere, and when questioned, you stated you wanted a easy win for once because it promotes activity. You’re not wrong on that, but damn. Sure, if I was a coward too, I’d position my nation out of range from the game’s average city count and ally up with those who could give me the most headaches if we came to blows. Yeah, my members will probably brag, because they actually put effort in whether it’s a easy fight or if they’re out through the meat grinder. You on the other hand... You gave up on VE when it got too hard for you. You allied up with the only two alliances that could pose a threat with you. And you simply just sat there and grew. How many total wars has GoB participated in since your creation? (That’s a honest question, not a dig) I certainly don’t fault your methodology here, but the arrogance is astounding. If you were so afraid of TEst throughout those years, why didn’t you just engage them first? Because of numbers? That just tells me you are too lazy to plan it out. 1 3 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 We have been in 4 wars, it would have been 5, but we weren't needed in one. As for test, I did look, we only had about 35 to counter their 45, and at the time they were bigger than us. And I don't deny being lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hodor Posted November 6, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) My 2 cents. SRD has different goals and is unapologetic about pursuing them. The rest of Orbis has somehow decided that their idea for what is best for the game is some universal truth when really that's never come close to being the case. If they are having fun doing what they are doing why stop them? There is a lot of contradiction and hypocrisy in these attacks. They are irrelevant, yet the target of so much anger and effort. They are going to grow themselves out of range, but they are getting hit right now, and if they do grow out of range, who cares? They actually become irrelevant. They're flexing about their stats this war, literally every fricking alliance ever does that regardless of whether its a rolling or a fair fight. Edited November 6, 2018 by Hodor 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memph Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 20 hours ago, Akuryo said: Congratulations on rolling people you outnumbered in their tier with downdeclares. Let's all celebrate the skill IQ showed in shredding TKRs middle and lower tier as well, since we're basically handing out trophies it seems. Before somebody tries and pulls some bullshit with numbers. CoS/TEst = 60 players. 23-24ish and 21-22ish average cc respectively. Guardian - 49 players, average cc of 26. Grumpy, who we didn't hit but knew would counter - 27 players, average cc of 30. Tesla, who pulled a Spanish Inquisition - 19 players, city 22 average. So congrats on winning a fight you were supposed to win and had a massive advantage in, but please, don't let facts stop you from touting it like you slew a mighty dragon. It's actually an average of 22 for Guardian and 23 for both CoS and TEst. Close to half of Guardian (ie the 21 & below) were fighting IQ on the initial wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, Memph said: It's actually an average of 22 for Guardian and 23 for both CoS and TEst. Close to half of Guardian (ie the 21 & below) were fighting IQ on the initial wave. *searches for that thing i remember seeing* I don't even remember where i saw it, and at this point i'm not gonna bother looking. Something on there said 26 though and i can't remember what it must've been. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memph Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, Akuryo said: *searches for that thing i remember seeing* I don't even remember where i saw it, and at this point i'm not gonna bother looking. Something on there said 26 though and i can't remember what it must've been. Might be a mistake with how you accounted for VM nations? Anyways, it was definitely more than just CoS and TEst keeping us and Grumpy busy. Guardian's bottom 40% or so were kept busy by IQ and our top 30% or so quickly got free of CoS/TEst and kept busy downdeclaring on Rose, Syndicate, Pantheon, SK, WTF, DB, Fark, UPN... From Oct 20 to Oct 31 (after which our ability to launch effective offensives was limited), Guardian launched 55 wars against CoS/TEst and 72 wars against other alliances, and had a total of 197 wars against CoS/TEst and 288 against other alliances. Grumpy's wars probably skewed even more heavily against other alliances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: -words- Alright, I was gonna reply with another scarfpost but no. Your points are kind of valid really. Besides, it's as much on me to avoid participating in derailment as it is on you to avoid baiting it, so I'll just upvote @Hodor and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, Memph said: Might be a mistake with how you accounted for VM nations? Anyways, it was definitely more than just CoS and TEst keeping us and Grumpy busy. Guardian's bottom 40% or so were kept busy by IQ and our top 30% or so quickly got free of CoS/TEst and kept busy downdeclaring on Rose, Syndicate, Pantheon, SK, WTF, DB, Fark, UPN... From Oct 20 to Oct 31 (after which our ability to launch effective offensives was limited), Guardian launched 55 wars against CoS/TEst and 72 wars against other alliances, and had a total of 197 wars against CoS/TEst and 288 against other alliances. Grumpy's wars probably skewed even more heavily against other alliances. I didn't make the thing, but that might be possible. Poor Beli took 1bn in damage from that, last time the personal stats were updated anyway. Which, to my knowledge, is when they were released. To be fair you really don't need down declares to take on Pantheon, Fark, WTF or UPN. That's just insult to injury. I didn't even notice DB was in this, they're so damned quiet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memph Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, Akuryo said: I didn't make the thing, but that might be possible. Poor Beli took 1bn in damage from that, last time the personal stats were updated anyway. Which, to my knowledge, is when they were released. To be fair you really don't need down declares to take on Pantheon, Fark, WTF or UPN. That's just insult to injury. I didn't even notice DB was in this, they're so damned quiet. The down-declares were mostly to make sure all of us had opponents we could fight to ensure we used our offensive potential as efficiently as possible. We did have several of us go 1 vs 1 against opponents to use our limited offensive slots more efficiently too. Whoever was hitting us with espionage was also keeping us busy... I lost 1233 planes to that, mostly in a 4-5 day period in round 2-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katashimon13 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Akuryo said: *searches for that thing i remember seeing* I don't even remember where i saw it, and at this point i'm not gonna bother looking. Something on there said 26 though and i can't remember what it must've been. p sure ur badly remembering this nonsense from forever ago xP rawr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Memph said: The down-declares were mostly to make sure all of us had opponents we could fight to ensure we used our offensive potential as efficiently as possible. We did have several of us go 1 vs 1 against opponents to use our limited offensive slots more efficiently too. Whoever was hitting us with espionage was also keeping us busy... I lost 1233 planes to that, mostly in a 4-5 day period in round 2-3. I'm not sure we'll be able to make you guys negative because of it. Yeah, that's what we rolled in with covert for. That and tanks, spies can do a stupid amount of damage to tanks. I think one of my ops took out 1700. 32 minutes ago, katashimon13 said: p sure ur badly remembering this nonsense from forever ago xP rawr Who needs memory when you can flounder around cluelessly looking for something instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Name Here Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Memph said: It's actually an average of 22 for Guardian and 23 for both CoS and TEst. Close to half of Guardian (ie the 21 & below) were fighting IQ on the initial wave. Aye, TEst and CoS have no mid / low tier, which was why, having put teams of 3 on 2 targets each, we were unable to cover the low tier which would go down fast anyway. For the upper tier it was a headache tho - y'all have quite a few 28+ city nations, and the point where updeclares turned into downdeclares was with the smallest targets we hit in the blitz, in the 16-17 city range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) On 11/6/2018 at 10:18 AM, Spaceman Thrax said: Your argument about Test, I mean, I was there for Test becoming a bloated mess and essentially bullying smaller alliances in the upper tier. I didn't like it either, because it wasn't competitive. In your thinking, how does allying so much of the upper tier with your own alliance make you anything different from what Test used to be? The way I see it, you're even more bloated and non-competitive, and you've pretty much bluntly said you think lopsided wars are great. But your issue with Test is that they were opportunistic... what is it that you think your alliance is? We bullied alliances who weren't playing the political game. We smacked around GPA enough to get them to sign treaties and rebrand. Unfortunately they didn't really do anything interesting after that. Shame. Our "biggest" fights were against Arrgh, Alpha, Pantheon, and of course over half the game. Alpha was along side you all and supposed to start a global war, but didn't. Would've been interesting to see how things would have turned out in the following months had it. There's nothing wrong with being opportunistic, especially when we never held our wars long enough to truly grind down infra/resources to a crushing level. This current war was born out of being opportunistic. Seeing I had a good relationship at the end of my last tenure with Roquentin and Partisan and I know each other well enough to work together on a common goal, we were able to unite these sides to tackle the top tier consolidation that happened. The closest thing TEst did in its previous run to tier consolidation was a merger with Sparta. That put us above 40 members (i think) of predominantly larger, for that time, nations. We then sought out allies who could fight at the middle and lower tiers where we could not, so we could help them in the uppers, and they could help prevent us with up declares. Found those allies in Arrgh and Roz Wei who were basically paperless at the time (I think Arrgh still had protection deals at that time). I never tried to ally Guardian, or any alliance who had a sizable number of large treaties. I might be willing to work with them on a global war, like was the hope of the Alpha hit, but at the time paperless couldn't have a global war without joining one of the two spheres. Regardless. TEst never held an upper tier advantage against the entirety of the game, or a majority of the game. Put us up against 1 alliance, sure we probably had a decent number more larger nations than they did. Put us up against 2? Nope. Put us up against a sphere along with our allies? Not at all. My point is that TEst could have been taken down by a couple alliances, or a sphere (as it was) a virtually any point in my year leading it. But we played the political game well during that year taking advantage of the two sphere meta where we could. To take out GoB you have to take out the whole sphere tied to them which is filled with other whale nations. Our consolidation was never a threat for the game, it was just a perceived threat. Edited November 7, 2018 by Prefontaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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