This is Silly (Again)

[Shellhound]

While that is entirely true I still don't believe it's within a teachers right to say that a kid can't read the texts of his/his families religion. Is it indoctrination? Depends on who you ask, most people are indoctrinated at a young age by their country however so I don't think that's a very reasonable argument. Any teacher that says a child can't read a bible because of indoctrination but has them say the pledge in the morning or read out of US textbooks is a hypocrite imo.

[Dark Specter]

Well the us constitution states separation of church and state and public schools are state institutions, but I think the teacher could of handled this differently.

[Aisha Greyjoy]

Because religion embodies complex metaphysical concepts that young children are not properly equipped to process rationally. It is not unreasonable to say that their texts should be reserved for people whose critical thinking skills are more developed.

The Christian Bible tells us to be like children and think like children.(matthew 18:3)

 

To be more on topic, however, I think any kid who wants to read in school should be praised, be it a bible, the anarchist's cookbook, an army field manual, poetry, whatever.  Pretty much any non-porn reading should be praised.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Aisha Greyjoy

[WISD0MTREE]

Because religion embodies complex metaphysical concepts that young children are not properly equipped to process rationally. It is not unreasonable to say that their texts should be reserved for people whose critical thinking skills are more developed.

I read 1984 in 5th grade and my teacher did nothing about it. 

[Afya]

There is a strict separation of Church and State in the US. This is to prevent religious bias or alienation of minorities. In my school, I was never allowed to posses religious items, symbols or literature on school grounds.

I don't see any problem with this.

Religion has no place in schools. If you want to study religion, consult the proper religious communities in your free time.

Private schools are a different matter, but there are very good reasons for not allowing religion in a public school.

[Shellhound]

There is a strict separation of Church and State in the US. This is to prevent religious bias or alienation of minorities. In my school, I was never allowed to posses religious items, symbols or literature on school grounds.

I don't see any problem with this.

Religion has no place in schools. If you want to study religion, consult the proper religious communities in your free time.

Private schools are a different matter, but there are very good reasons for not allowing religion in a public school.

That's the thing though, that's not how it works. The constitution disallows the government (which includes public schools) from endorsing any religion's, whether it be Christian, Buddhist, etc. It does not however disallow people to follow them or anything like that. Not allowing any kind of religious items in school is just ridiculous, that's not what the constitution is trying to do. A teacher cannot tell a kid he is wrong for following a certain religion because he/she is a gov. employee, that does not prevent students from having religious items in school however.

[Afya]

That's the thing though, that's not how it works. The constitution disallows the government (which includes public schools) from endorsing any religion's, whether it be Christian, Buddhist, etc. It does not however disallow people to follow them or anything like that. Not allowing any kind of religious items in school is just ridiculous, that's not what the constitution is trying to do. A teacher cannot tell a kid he is wrong for following a certain religion because he/she is a gov. employee, that does not prevent students from having religious items in school however.

This makes sense. Although I think the idea behind it is that if religion is prohibited in school, the potential issues of religious bias and discrimination will never occur.

[Karl Marx]

Because religion embodies complex metaphysical concepts that young children are not properly equipped to process rationally. It is not unreasonable to say that their texts should be reserved for people whose critical thinking skills are more developed.

 

What about books about science, history, or philosophy that could be considered beyond the reading level of a young child? Should they be kept from reading those as well?

 

 

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. - John 3:16

 

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. - Matthew 7:1-2

 

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you. - James 5:1-6

 

Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ - Matthew 25:37-40

 

I didn't have much trouble understanding concepts like these, even at a young age. This is thanks to church and my relatives, who were instrumental in my understanding. If I had a question, it would have been absurd to say something like "This is too advanced for you, give me that Bible.". Instead, they helped me.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't want to live in a society where we restrict access to ideas based on age.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Karl Marx

[Ayayay]

Call me crazy, but I don't want to live in a society where we restrict access to ideas based on age.

Except pornography, but otherwise yea, I'm with ya.

[Grillick]

What about books about science, history, or philosophy that could be considered beyond the reading level of a young child? Should they be kept from reading those as well?

 

 

I didn't have much trouble understanding concepts like these, even at a young age. This is thanks to church and my relatives, who were instrumental in my understanding. If I had a question, it would have been absurd to say something like "This is too advanced for you, give me that Bible.". Instead, they helped me.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't want to live in a society where we restrict access to ideas based on age.

I didn't say it was right: I said it was not unreasonable. In response to your first question, I'd say that the first one is fundamentally childlike (the foundation of all science is limitless curiosity), but the other two could reasonably be restricted until the reader has developed his or her own ability to think for her- or himself.

 

Except pornography, but otherwise yea, I'm with ya.

And this response is precisely why you cannot in good faith say I'm wrong. If the limitation on pornography is not unreasonable, the other limitations are just a question of degree, not of kind.

[Ayayay]

And this response is precisely why you cannot in good faith say I'm wrong. If the limitation on pornography is not unreasonable, the other limitations are just a question of degree, not of kind.

Watch me.

 

You are wrong. BAM!

 

But seriously, pornography exists to cater to sexual desire, Schools should not support having children masturbating in the bathroom. Religion on the other hand is not based solely on perverted thoughts and motives. The fact is people always believe in some sort of higher power above them, be it God, the Government, the "Illuminati", celebrities like Justin Beiber or Robin Williams, or even the "Patriarchy." It seems unreasonable to censor religious books without censoring anything that an eight year old could possibly hold above themselves. Besides we already have the government in the classroom with the flag, the pledge of allegiance, and the whitewashing of our history.

 

Critiquing indoctrination is an absurd concept when our entire way of life is based on indoctrination, movies, ads, your parents, etc.

[WISD0MTREE]

the other two could reasonably be restricted until the reader has developed his or her own ability to think for her- or himself.

 

And this response is precisely why you cannot in good faith say I'm wrong. If the limitation on pornography is not unreasonable, the other limitations are just a question of degree, not of kind.

I see where you are going with this, but 

1. Bill of Rights

2. If religion is banned from schools, then atheism will take it's place. 

 

This is a little off topic, but despite us reminding you of the Bill of Rights, you keep saying that religion should be banned from schools. This can lead us to come to some conclusions including 

1. You are intolerant of religion

2. You are Unamerican 

[Aisha Greyjoy]

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you. - James 5:1-6"

 

I think the teacher was a good-minded free market wanna-be 1%er Republican who wanted to protect the children from communist propaganda like that.

[Solomon]

... The fact is people always believe in some sort of higher power above them, be it God, the Government, the "Illuminati", celebrities like Justin Beiber or Robin Williams, or even the "Patriarchy." ...

The fact? I certainly don't believe in any sort of higher power.

[Grillick]

I see where you are going with this, but 

1. Bill of Rights

2. If religion is banned from schools, then atheism will take it's place. 

 

This is a little off topic, but despite us reminding you of the Bill of Rights, you keep saying that religion should be banned from schools. This can lead us to come to some conclusions including 

1. You are intolerant of religion

2. You are Unamerican 

Atheism is as much a religion as any other religion. Anyone who says they know for sure whether there is a higher power or what that higher power is is wrong.

 

As to your second paragraph, I have no idea what you're talking about. I have never said that religion should be banned from school, only that it is not unreasonable to do so.

 

But seriously, pornography exists to cater to sexual desire, Schools should not support having children masturbating in the bathroom.

We're not talking about what you hide in the bathroom: this is about what you do during free reading time in front of the whole class.

 

Critiquing indoctrination is an absurd concept when our entire way of life is based on indoctrination, movies, ads, your parents, etc.

Hogwash. Critiquing indoctrination is the only just stance to take regarding the educational system.

 

The only thing we should be teaching our children is that everything, including the teachers, is subject to questioning. Insatiable curiosity for knowledge and explanation is the only thing our children need in order to teach themselves.

[Ayayay]

The fact? I certainly don't believe in any sort of higher power.

Higher power as following something with undue interest. Do you always buy a bands album? Do you put your alliance above yourself? Stuff like that, people are always drawn to the idea that there are things more important or above themselves.

 

Hogwash. Critiquing indoctrination is the only just stance to take regarding the educational system.

 

The only thing we should be teaching our children is that everything, including the teachers, is subject to questioning. Insatiable curiosity for knowledge and explanation is the only thing our children need in order to teach themselves.

The problem with that is that certain people need to be indoctrinated in order to function within the society we have built. People are susceptible to ideas, especially bad ones, and weaker minds can be forced from those paths. People who might be more susceptible to stealing need to be indoctrinated in a way that puts personal property above their own desires. The problem with always questioning others is that some people might come to the wrong conclusion. Edited August 14, 2014 by underlordgc

[Solomon]

The problem with that is that certain people need to be indoctrinated in order to function within the society we have built. People are susceptible to ideas, especially bad ones, and weaker minds can be forced from those paths. People who might be more susceptible to stealing need to be indoctrinated in a way that puts personal property above their own desires. The problem with always questioning others is that some people might come to the wrong conclusion.

You've just stepped onto a very slippery slope.

[WISD0MTREE]

 

 

Atheism is as much a religion as any other religion. Anyone who says they know for sure whether there is a higher power or what that higher power is is wrong.

Finally you have some sense! The only way that I could agree to ban religion from schools would be banning atheism, too.