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Alex

No Beige If Recent Offensive War

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To avoid moderation issues and basically just stupid abuse of the Beige system, I'm proposing what I believe is a minor gameplay change that will really only impact people trying to abuse the system.

My proposal is simply this: If you have declared an offensive war in the past 24 hours, and someone defeats you in a war, you do not get any Beige time.

I am talking a strict, actual 24 hour limit, not based on turns or the midnight update. I think this will eliminate any capacity for abuse like we've seen, without sharply diminishing Beige's role as a comeback mechanism for players that have really been defeated (and aren't trying to engage in additional offensive wars.)

Let me know your thoughts, and unless there are some major complaints, I will have this implemented live shortly.

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I cant think of a way to abuse that, or how that will screw someone over in a war if they are losing.  I approve.  The only people I think this could hurt are guys that declare wars just to lob their huge quantities of nukes.

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I'm fully against this as it won't stop the current meta like how you think it will. Just makes it even worse for the weaker side as the early rounds are even more if a slaughter if they decide to fight back or help eachother.

Edited by Malal
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I'm not sure about this, I'll stay neutral to the change. 

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Interesting idea... It wouldn't really damage blitzes that hard since it always, always takes at least 44 hours to win any given war (7 action points to start if we assume defender is blitzkrieg policy, 29 actions to do 5 navals 3 grounds, so 22 full turns).

That said this should very much go by TURNS and not by timestamp, so that we get the benefit of snore making it clear which side any given war is on.

Edit: There's still a huge problem in that this change makes pinning way more powerful of an exploit than it already was.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
blitzkrieg, not that anyone uses that crap
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48 minutes ago, Malal said:

I'm fully against this as it won't stop the current meta like how you think it will.

It would absolutely eliminate the strategy of declaring a war right before you're about to get Beiged so that no one can counter you.

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

It would absolutely eliminate the strategy of declaring a war right before you're about to get Beiged so that no one can counter you.

Actually, having thought about it, this would do that... but it would furthermore make the strategy of holding off on beiging WAY too powerful. I mean WAY, WAY too powerful. And that's a BIG problem.

All the aggressor has to do in order to ensure that no beige happens is wait until all the aggressive wars of his target expires or is won, then the guy doing the attacks can't follow through with anything since he'd be giving the guys pinning him the absolutely insurmountable advantage of a free refreshed defense slot. This should, if I am not mistaken, result in a lot of bullcrap 'you beige me' 'no you first' slot filling, basically making the strategy of pinning to expiration even more of an exploit than it already is. Not to mention you will get craploads of mails from newbies that weren't aware of the system asking why they're not beige. So, y'know, there's that. Exchange one headache for another.

Now, if the concept of war expiration could be changed so that when a war expires, the victor who gets loot and the defeated who gets beige is determined by who has the least resistance. If tied, the war expires without beige nor loot. That would work excellently with the proposed mechanic change here, and for that matter that should have been implemented years ago. I've suggested this like five times now...

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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5 hours ago, Alex said:

It would absolutely eliminate the strategy of declaring a war right before you're about to get Beiged so that no one can counter you.

So it stops T$ from getting raided again and everyone having a chuckle. Okay? Even though by all accounts i can see from talking to him personally, he was hit right after entering Arrgh. Even joked with us on the former members channel about some people just being haters. 

Yeah i don't see that as a problem. What i do see as a problem is that in big alliance wars it's not uncommon for you to lose at different times, and not uncommon for you to leave beige early and hit other targets. God forbid if your side is losing, because now you're screwed. People don't typically wait for all their wars to finish before striking out again or waiting out their week of beige before looking more enemies in big wars like that.

 

This ontop of what Scarf mentioned. Did you... not read a word i said in the other thread, Alex? I'll repeat it here for you again. No matter what you do, how you do it, how grand your plan and vision is, someone WILL find a cheeky, clever way to exploit the consequences of that, and then the person getting dunked on will complain. You're trying to avoid a problem that cannot be avoided. If you don't want to moderate, find people who do and let them do it.

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17 minutes ago, Komiko said:

No matter what you do, how you do it, how grand your plan and vision is, someone WILL find a cheeky, clever way to exploit the consequences of that, and then the person getting dunked on will complain.

While I do agree with the fact that people will find loopholes, that doesn't mean it should stop Sheepy from trying to figure out a fix.

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2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

While I do agree with the fact that people will find loopholes, that doesn't mean it should stop Sheepy from trying to figure out a fix.

That's not what he's trying to do, though. What he's trying to fix is his having to moderate anything by trying to stop exploits. That's not possible. The fact this would prevent something that isn't done very often just because a few people complained about it, all the while his fix creating an issue that will be much more prevalent, proves that.

It's the shortsighted thinking of somebody trying to quickly fix a nuisance that can't be fixed.

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This will kill updeclaring. Being able to cycle your three updecs into beige and put another three nations in is just about key to being able to exhaust an enemy that has a lot more rebuying power. Without being able to do that it's going to drastically curtail the ability of nations with fewer cities to be able to coordinate to take out nations with significantly more.

There seems to be this tunnel focus on punishing the rest of the game for things Arrgh uses. I see the problem but it's using a sledgehammer to crack an egg.

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The solution is doing your Job, @Alex. No matter the system you create, people will find ways to skirt the rules and do things to gain advantages. You will have to moderate. Suck it up.

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On 9/15/2018 at 5:48 PM, Auctor said:

I see the problem but it's using a sledgehammer to crack an egg.

I liked Kominikos arguments, but imo ^^ Auctor got it right. Leave it the way it is...though i'm not totally against a change in the rules regarding Slot filling, e.g. legalizing it. Since well, it's pretty rampant.

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