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Separate Subforum for Micro Alliances in Alliance Affairs


Thalmor
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Hrm. I've been thinking about this for a bit, and I'm going to have to make a few counter-arguments.

First, defining a micro by top 45 is highly limiting; for a start you've got Arrgh sitting pretty right there in the 'micro' tier at #46*. And otherwise relevant alliances that get rolled might end up dropping below that threshold. Would threads about rolled alliances need to be moved by moderators or by an automatic script as necessary? That seems counterproductive to me, but what other options are there? We could extend the threshold downwards, but then the utility diminishes anyway.

Second, what about protectorates? Or using micros as mercenaries? Bank alliances? Just because an alliance is tiny doesn't mean that they're not relevant to somebody, somehow. And even if the announcement doesn't have anything directly to do with a non-micro alliance, maybe it's sponsored by a big name or guaranteed or something. Heck, by that logic there's not a single announcement on the first page of Alliance Affairs right now that wouldn't belong there under your system, since all those micros have treaties or protectors in the top 45.

Third, putting micro announcements into a containment board means that their announcements aren't given the same level of exposure as an established alliance. That's a problem on many levels, not the least of which is that their initial growth and their ability to escape the micro ghetto depends in large part on their visibility. Recruitment is hard enough for an alliance that can't say "we're literally #1 in this/that/otherthing so join us", so making it just that much worse for growing alliances isn't a good. Furthermore, what if they get dec'd on and rolled? Are they to ineffectually scream into an unobserved board about their plight? If they got hit by a large force then the argument can be made that the announcement is relevant by association to the larger force, but lacking either, then they're even less likely to escape the micro ghetto their low score has sentenced them to.

I do realize that it really doesn't matter that much when tinyalliance renames themselves into microd*ck, and it's bothersome to have to check on the off chance that maybe it does, but implementing this suggestion would only cause more problems IMO... and honestly, it wouldn't even solve anything in the first place.

*arguments about Arrgh being relevant these days or not are tangential to the point

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Micros are literally playing a whole other game and don't have a clue whats going on. Its almost like two separate dimensions. Point is, two separate games, two separate forum sections. This is definitely a must. 

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Chief Financial Officer of The Syndicate

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2 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

And do you think micros are actually going to follow this rule?  or even know to follow this rule?

Of course not, which is why moderation will enforce it. That's why we have a mod team.

If a micro posts an alliance in Alliance Affairs rather than the subforum, players can report the thread in the moderation forum or report the OP of the thread. 

@Sir Scarfalot I'm typing up a fairly comprehensive response to your counter points, but I've been sick so it's slow going. I'll post it here soon.

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6 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

As the leader of a micro alliance that will most likely disband before the year's end, I approve of this.

Don't tell anybody, but the real reason why I'm proposing this is to suppress The Golden Horse.

xo

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This is the gayest shit I've ever heard. 

I'm down.

EDIT:

Coming back to this thread, 12 minutes later, and actually reading replies. This makes sense and also will cause several issues. For starters you'll have those that are like...posting in the wrong area and people are gonna be spam posting that its in the wrong spot and that's just something I don't want to deal with as a moderator ( ;) jab at alex ) but seriously moving a thread ain't that bad and its doable. It would just be the spam comments that really don't belong which would just make their news...shidded up.

As a person who is in a secret micro tier server containing just about every active micro leader/gov person, micros aren't oblivious to what is going on in the world, especially with the server being up and running, people share news and operate in the micro world just like they do in the scummy elitist world. So, saying people in the micro tier are oblivious is pretty ignorant & not 100% correct...don't get me wrong there are plenty of micro alliances that are not connected to the world, but thats because they are doing their own thing and mostly pertains to sticking to the theme RP that they engage in and that is ok.

Lastly, the line of what is micro and what isn't micro is honestly not black and white. Everyone views 'micro' as a completely different thing. I personally consider myself micro simply because we have 14 members, we choose to be this way as it is how we operate and plenty of other alliances operate within their own culture too. Some people base micro off rank, some on score, some on members, some on average score, some on city count, on notability, on diplomatic ties, on.....see? The list keeps going and we've had this discussion in the micro server and every person had a different idea of what micro is - probably the same way everyone has a different idea what top tier is - ya know with TKR saying they aren't and everyone saying they are? So a neutral line would have to be drawn which probably associates more closely with alliance ranking. Just say everyone below X number is micro, it will piss people off  - but at this point in time, who really cares?

I'm for it. Why? Because I don't see it as a way to segregate and I don't believe that tier of alliances/forum will receive less views because frankly, 'non-micro' alliances post up a ton of shit threads too - most is a waste of time and just boring. 

As a remark to protectorates and all that. 
-If the big guy is posting about it, post it in the big boy forum.
-If the little guy is posting about it, post it in the little boy forum.

No need to draw it out into all these subcategories of discussion - its a pretty simple set..

Edited by Mad Max
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  • 2 weeks later...

There are 25 threads on the first page of Alliance Affairs. 1 is pinned and about the rules, so it's really 24. Out of these 24, about 15 of them are from micros, and the other 9 are from relevant alliances.

Micro threads:

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23966-unified-nations-coalition-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23962-omg-jedi-merge/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23948-unc-spying/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23952-new-containment-protocol/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23954-nova-riata-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23862-the-phoenix-is-dead/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23914-egyptian-empire-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23874-what-is-that-the-theme-of-this-family-when-in-doubt-blame-unlimited/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23841-sirius-slightly-late-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23886-we-are-the-meta-sorta/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23868-fezza-not-part-of-us-omega/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23836-united-hoods-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23857-omegas-new-deputy-prime-minister/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23845-out-of-the-ashes/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23843-everyone-else-was-doing-it/

Relevant threads:

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23946-wintry-thorns/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23887-avalon’s-avarice/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23915-round-2/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23909-blessed-by-the-gods/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23879-its-not-you-apparently-its-me/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23833-i-see-something-purple/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23846-rose-goes-public/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23847-that-was-slightly-but-not-really-entertaining/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23844-containment-level-maximum/

-----

This is ridiculous. It's clogging up Alliance Affairs and it's making it harder to find the threads from relevant alliances.

I'm not even saying that micros shouldn't post their announcement. All I'm saying is that it needs its own subforum so Alliance Affairs isn't such a clusterfrick.

 

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There are time when small alliances make an impact
What you are telling is to sort out Micros from Macros
But what I'll suggest is sorting Important from Not Important


Also, as Scar already mentioned relevance is based on your perspective.

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31 minutes ago, Thalmor said:

There are 25 threads on the first page of Alliance Affairs. 1 is pinned and about the rules, so it's really 24. Out of these 24, about 15 of them are from micros, and the other 9 are from relevant alliances.

Micro threads:

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23966-unified-nations-coalition-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23962-omg-jedi-merge/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23948-unc-spying/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23952-new-containment-protocol/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23954-nova-riata-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23862-the-phoenix-is-dead/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23914-egyptian-empire-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23874-what-is-that-the-theme-of-this-family-when-in-doubt-blame-unlimited/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23841-sirius-slightly-late-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23886-we-are-the-meta-sorta/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23868-fezza-not-part-of-us-omega/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23836-united-hoods-doe/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23857-omegas-new-deputy-prime-minister/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23845-out-of-the-ashes/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23843-everyone-else-was-doing-it/

Relevant threads:

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23946-wintry-thorns/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23887-avalon’s-avarice/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23915-round-2/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23909-blessed-by-the-gods/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23879-its-not-you-apparently-its-me/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23833-i-see-something-purple/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23846-rose-goes-public/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23847-that-was-slightly-but-not-really-entertaining/

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/23844-containment-level-maximum/

-----

This is ridiculous. It's clogging up Alliance Affairs and it's making it harder to find the threads from relevant alliances.

I'm not even saying that micros shouldn't post their announcement. All I'm saying is that it needs its own subforum so Alliance Affairs isn't such a clusterfrick.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mad Max said:

You want to separate me pa pa?

(thats why i'm crying)

Well, The Island might be considered a micro in terms of score and alliance rank, but it's held together better than most alliances around it in score and it's connected to some big names. It's just one of those grey areas that would have to be worked out... which is something we can discuss in this thread.

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Just now, Thalmor said:

Well, The Island might be considered a micro in terms of score and alliance rank, but it's held together better than most alliances around it in score and it's connected to some big names. It's just one of those grey areas that would have to be worked out... which is something we can discuss in this thread.

What about Cammy?

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As much as I want to agree with you and say it's a brilliant idea. I just don't believe it is necessary. Most of the big players barely announce anything so it's not like any of us are missing much by the mirco nonsense. 

Sure, I can definitely go without hearing about a 2 vote election but the Second coming spy stuff was sorta entertaining. It should also be remembered that so many of these "relevant" alliance topics just turn into a "whose more salty debate". 

FORMER LEADER OF COTL. PLEASE GROW INTERNALLY

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Dude... you're giving the moderators one thing you definitely don't want to.. more responsibility. We all know their decision making skill so let's not give them more work.

Also @TheShadow what you're suggesting is more subjective to a person's view (Important vs unimportant). At least ranking is defined.

There are some good Micros out there. They are relevant and popular enough.

I would rather suggest Topic categories/tag. like "Irrelevant/Micro" or "Relevant/Arrgh" being assigned by moderators according to rank... and then people who have problems can sort with categories.

Don't you dare put Arrgh in Micros. We're the most relevant alliance clearly. At least in that score range. (ffs look at the number of wars we have at any point and how many times we get mentioned in Pantheon's discord)

Arrgh!

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I'd disagree. All alliances are alliances. If you're upset with their announcements, use in-game means to handle it. Stop running to Alex to fix all your "problems" Thalmor. You could easily have ET hit all these plebs and issue a "No OWF" directive. 

Since this can be solved with in-game actions, no. 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Since this war has broken out, there's been several threads related to micros that have furthered clogged up Alliance Affairs. People looking to archive things, do research, and go back and look at these things from the future will have a harder time thanks to these irrelevant threads. Examples include:

1 - Some guy being naive about how this game works: https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/24186-god-of-alliance-creation/
2 - DoE of an alliance that's #130 with only 2 members in-game: https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/24188-blue-alantians-doe/
3 - A micro's DoW. The OP contained the entire script of Braveheart. Nobody thought it was funny: https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/24136-dixie-goes-south-and-istem-too/
4 - The same alliance withdrawing 4 days later: https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/24173-the-federation-withdrawal/
5 - An micro ranked #56 that has accomplished nothing and is 150 days old announcing a rebrand: https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/24142-the-age-of-reformation/
6 - A micro DoW on another micro: https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/24135-uh-tdu-declaration-of-war/

Again, I'm not saying these alliances can't post on Alliance Affairs. I'm saying they should have a separate subforum so their stuff doesn't get in the way.

 

 

 

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