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7 hours ago, Kastor said:

I already said that I don’t agree with Thalmor. Not sure what more you want me to do. They’re literally fighting a war over him through in-game means. The point isn’t of coming to aid, no one is arguing if Thalmor is in the wrong. The argument is about Sheepy going around in-game features to support another person. 

 

If Sheepy had never told Queen M, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now.

A round of beer for Kastor who points out the obvious to those who have such a low IQ that they think IQ members are geniuses.

TKR= The Korrupt Riggers

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First shifty turned on thalmor for not being nazi enough, now hes mad that thalmor blatantly revealed Im not full of shit for calling you nazi frickwits the nazi frickwits you are.  frick off you fricking nazi frickwit pieces of shit.

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9 minutes ago, kosmokenny said:

First shifty turned on thalmor for not being nazi enough, now hes mad that thalmor blatantly revealed Im not full of shit for calling you nazi frickwits the nazi frickwits you are.  frick off you fricking nazi frickwit pieces of shit.

Hey, look!  An Elite completely misses the point!

 

tenor.gif?itemid=7676808

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bounced on my boy's !@#$ to this for minutes before I got tired of the !@#$ing and moaning

obvious solution is for everyone to delete their nations or some shit like that

Edited by LordStrum
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4 hours ago, Micchan said:

It's like when a gang member, in prison for killing a rival gang member, get killed by another rival gang member

Hey now. Having prisoners die to other prisoners, and for that matter having active gang warfare going on in your prison, is seriously bad news. You lose prison grade points and have to build extra beds in the morgue, and it could easily lead to a full-scale prison riot and ultimately game over.

4 hours ago, Micchan said:

Should people get triggered less by what happens in the internet? Yes

Should poeple avoid to target who get easy triggered by their highschool level of trolling? Yes

Hm. So if I claim to be a delicate special snowflake that gets ultra triggered, I'm automatically and undeniably entitled to whatever I want? STOP COUNTERING ME THEN, I GET TRIGGERED REEE*. Or perhaps I have a phobia of urination and thus am super triggered by TRF's preschool level of trolling. ...Actually, I am triggered (a word which has now lost all intensity due to disingenuous overuse by attention-seekers and at this point merely means slightly annoyed) by that, though only because it's so hopelessly uncreative, hypocritical, and shows an absolutely adorable level of immaturity.

*This is sarcasm. Actually, if you could send more counters against me that won't resort to tactical nation deletion themselves when I turn around and defeat them, that'd be great

4 hours ago, Micchan said:

Should Alex avoid to make public the name of who placed the bounty after he said that bounties are anonymous? Yes

But, should Alex make public the name of a player who violated the rules? Yes

Alex should absolutely not make privileged information public under any circumstances, other than what is legally mandated by a real-life court of law. That's what confidentiality means.  And even then, no player nor set of players should ever use moderation or the law as a weapon against their IC opponents. That's deeply wrong on many levels, not the least of which being that it undermines actual moderation efforts against actual problems.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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6 hours ago, Forethought said:

As much as what he said is very wrong, personally I feel as of instead of meddling with the in game community he should've been punished by whatever Alex seems reasonable but not like this. I mean whether it's in the rules or not he ultimately can decide what happens but in my opinion shouldn't have been handled as such. Maybe Thalmor does such a horrible thing like such ban him from the game for a bit or something of that nature.

Personally I am confused by the message with the bounty. Since when was it possible to add a message to a bounty?

You'll have to give props to Killzbob.

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6 hours ago, Forethought said:

Personally I am confused by the message with the bounty. Since when was it possible to add a message to a bounty?

It's not; the bounty amount was what was interpreted to be a racist statement.

Which is a problem, as if a mere number is a racist statement that needs to be censored, lest TRF's delicate sensibilities be offended, then where are the limits of moderation? If after a few battles someone's population limits them to 1488 aircraft, then is building that many aircraft a rule violation? If they do, does the rest of Orbis have an obligation to enforce game rules by spying or declaring war in order to fix the odious number? How much of our IC gameplay do we need to put on hold in order to satisfy the whims of the trolls that are willing to forcibly cause any random thing, from harmless comics and frog pictures to nothing more than mere meaningless numbers, to be hate symbols that must be censored?

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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19 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Alex should absolutely not make privileged information public under any circumstances, other than what is legally mandated by a real-life court of law. That's what confidentiality means.

Hang on. Disclosing the in-game username of someone who took an in-game action is not remotely the same is making private information public. Alex hasn't broken any privacy laws, or contravened his own company's privacy policy. The word doxx was being thrown around a bit too liberally earlier in this thread.

All he's done is contradict an in-game mechanic description. "Bounties are anonymously posted rewards for defeating nations in war."

That it and of itself has made people uncomfortable. Even people who agree with his reasons for doing so. We have a reasonable expectation that we're all playing the game by the same explicit rules, as published on the web pages the game consists of. When I look at the Military page, I see "Each barracks can house up to 3,000 soldiers". I naturally expect that everyone else sees the same thing when logged in, and I expect that mechanic to remain the same each time I log in unless Alex posts an update.

If I were to break a major rule, like if Alex were to find out that I'm just another Shellhound multi like the rest of Guardian, I would fairly expect to be banned. But I wouldn't expect Alex to discretionally limit my soldiers to 2,500 per barracks, and I'd be just as uncomfortable to see an inconsistent approach of the game rules applied to someone else.

I think it's clear to everybody here that Alex did not foresee the bounty system used to try and slide rule-violating harassment* under the radar. He made a judgement call at that time. Whether or not that was justified is an exhausted topic. Either way, the judgement has done some amount of damage to the perception that all members of the P&W community engage with the game itself in a consistent way.

That's easy enough to repair. Either a rules amendment stating that bounty posters' anonymity is only guaranteed unless breaking in-game communication rules ( "included, but not limited to..."), or a policy that makes clear that going forward that game mechanic text is sacrosanct, or which whatever caveats he sees fit.

Just make a policy, own it and we can all move on.

*No, don't respond with whether you think it was harassment or not. Both sides of that argument have been covered in this thread. One of those sides is wrong.

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4/20 is very naughty too, everyone be on the look out. These nazi frickwits are everywhere and there are no rules when in comes to exterminating these pest. Ban then, roll them, dehumanize and genocide every last one of them.

Edited by Clemson
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49 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

If after a few battles someone's population limits them to 1488 aircraft, then is building that many aircraft a rule violation?

Yes, 😉 valid cb

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2 hours ago, LordStrum said:

bounced on my boy's !@#$ to this for minutes before I got tired of the !@#$ing and moaning

obvious solution is for everyone to delete their nations or some shit like that

I agree with the deleting part, good opinion Strum. you truly cannot stump the strump.

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1 hour ago, Isaac Lazarus said:

Hang on. Disclosing the in-game username of someone who took an in-game action is not remotely the same is making private information public. Alex hasn't broken any privacy laws, or contravened his own company's privacy policy.

He absolutely has. See Kastor's post here:

On 8/1/2018 at 9:30 PM, Kastor said:

He’s done it for years. One time I rerolled and he posted my new nation in the IRC channel. Then when I said it wasn’t, he showed my IP to prove it.


The point is that of being responsible with and worthy of the trust that we've placed in him as the game administrator. Right now, he's shown himself to be deeply irresponsible, playing fast and loose with the information that he has that shouldn't be publicly known, and with the promises that he's made to us as consumers and customers.

Distributing information that you've been entrusted to keep secure and private is a serious crime. Lying to your customers is equally a serious crime. If someone is selling a product and they promise anonymity to their buyer, and they break that promise, then that's a serious crime, and that is exactly what happened here.

1 hour ago, Isaac Lazarus said:

That's easy enough to repair. Either a rules amendment stating that bounty posters' anonymity is only guaranteed unless breaking in-game communication rules ( "included, but not limited to..."), or a policy that makes clear that going forward that game mechanic text is sacrosanct, or which whatever caveats he sees fit.

Just make a policy, own it and we can all move on.

Amending the rules after committing a huge breach of trust in no way 'repairs' what Sheepy did. I hate it when people honestly believe in logic like that, where it's fine to arbitrarily ignore the rules as long as the rules are equally arbitrarily edited to cover that breach after the fact. It's wrong and irresponsible, as that logic would, if valid, justify any amount of overreach by any authority at all. I don't accept that, no sir I do not.

 

1 hour ago, Waffle said:

Yes, 😉 valid cb

CB sure, IC; but worth a nation strike? A ban? Admin slapping one plane out of the sky with the hoof of Sheepy during the next air battle?

 

1 hour ago, Isaac Lazarus said:

*No, don't respond with whether you think it was harassment or not. Both sides of that argument have been covered in this thread. One of those sides is wrong.

See, that's a hostile way to put it. If I respond positively, then I've belabored the point. If I respond negatively, then I'm "wrong". If I don't respond at all, like you're asking me to, then I look like I'm defending Thalmor. Well, you've miscalculated, since I have only just now entered this thread, and I therefore respond without repeating myself when I say: I do agree that Thalmor most likely did intentionally invoke the neo-nazi meaning of the number as a way to push Queen M's buttons. And that's a tasteless and unfunny thing for him to do, at least.

But even so, is it really so much more acceptable to spam words like

4 hours ago, kosmokenny said:

you nazi frickwits the nazi frickwits you are.  frick off you fricking nazi frickwit pieces of shit.

as long as you're making serious blanket accusations and OOC attacks, rather than crappy jokes? More importantly, the excessive and irresponsible moderation and community responses to these are exactly what encourages trolls to push those particular buttons, since that's the easiest way for them get the validation and attention that they crave, and don't deserve.

 

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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4 hours ago, kosmokenny said:

First shifty turned on thalmor for not being nazi enough, now hes mad that thalmor blatantly revealed Im not full of shit for calling you nazi frickwits the nazi frickwits you are.  frick off you fricking nazi frickwit pieces of shit.

The amount of FRICK here is hilarious. 

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Just now, kosmokenny said:

Or stop making this game a haven for nazis

Who are the nazis exactly? Like legitimate, nazis - I'm not looking for an opinionated response, more looking for a real list of actual nazis who play this game. 

others can chime in as well.

Asking for a friend.

giphy.gif

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51 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

 

as long as you're making serious blanket accusations and OOC attacks, rather than crappy jokes? More importantly, the excessive and irresponsible moderation and community responses to these are exactly what encourages trolls to push those particular buttons, since that's the easiest way for them get the validation and attention that they crave, and don't deserve.

  

Im not making blanket statements, nor are they irresponsible or inaccurate.  They have nazi discord channels for this game where they gather and have nazi tea parties and shit.  They know exactly who Im talking about, and they hide it here with straw man arguments and other such bullshit, which is why shiftynazi is pissed at thalmor, because he didnt hide it.

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14 minutes ago, kosmokenny said:

Im not making blanket statements, nor are they irresponsible or inaccurate.  They have nazi discord channels for this game where they gather and have nazi tea parties and shit.  They know exactly who Im talking about, and they hide it here with straw man arguments and other such bullshit, which is why shiftynazi is pissed at thalmor, because he didnt hide it.

So, you're spouting off profanity and filter evasion because you think "they" have got secret, and private channels outside of the forums or the game where you believe they... have nazi tea parties? ...Tea parties?

I'm 99% certain you've been taken for a ride, buddy. But even if you're correct, then "they" are being weird privately, and therefore you haven't got any ground on which to take such offense, even if your filter evasion and profanity were somehow justified by it. Secret meme nazi tea party discord channels aren't hurting anyone; not you, not me, not themselves, not Queen M, not Sheepy, not anyone.

Either way, stop using undefined pronouns geez

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
pronouns ree

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1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

So, you're spouting off profanity and filter evasion because you think "they" have got secret, and private channels outside of the forums or the game where you believe they... have nazi tea parties? ...Tea parties?

I'm 99% certain you've been taken for a ride, buddy. But even if you're correct, then they're being weird privately, and therefore you haven't got any ground on which to take such offense, even if your filter evasion and profanity were somehow justified by it. Secret meme nazi tea party discord channels aren't hurting anyone; not you, not me, not themselves, not Queen M, not Sheepy, not anyone.

Earlier I was invited to a server for 'conservatives' and there were numerous nazi-looking PFPs. The general audience was pretty retarded when it came to actual political discussion and they wanted like $5 to get access to 'news' and other channels on the server. I left it, but maybe thats what he speaks of?

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1 minute ago, Mad Max said:

Earlier I was invited to a server for 'conservatives' and there were numerous nazi-looking PFPs. The general audience was pretty retarded when it came to actual political discussion and they wanted like $5 to get access to 'news' and other channels on the server. I left it, but maybe thats what he speaks of?

I'd leave too; sounds like a scam to me.

The sad part is whoever is running that operation is probably pulling down tens of thousands 😕

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Just now, Sir Scarfalot said:

I'd leave too; sounds like a scam to me.

The sad part is whoever is running that operation is probably pulling down tens of thousands 😕

Oh god, I hope not. 

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4 hours ago, LordStrum said:

bounced on my boy's !@#$ to this for minutes before I got tired of the !@#$ing and moaning

obvious solution is for everyone to delete their nations or some shit like that

Where's Longbowe when you need him? smh

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24 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

He absolutely has. See Kastor's post here:

But one these things is not like the other, and you're absolutely right. I'll admit I skimmed Kastor's post the first time around. I wasn't aware of this, and it's a much bigger deal.

I'd still argue that in Thalmor's case, the worst Alex did was weaken the credibility of his own game platform. That is what I believe can be repaired with a commitment to a consistent and transparent approach in future.

But broadcasting a user's IP address, particularly on an outside medium, is materially different. And starts to look like a pattern of disregard for user security. I can appreciate a few of the voices in this thread a bit more in that light.

How would you see a way forward from that? Besides en masse deletion, that is. Log into P&W through a third-party portal that insulates private data from Alex' server?  

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