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[durmij]

Why did frick do people who make a sport of continually pushing up against the boundaries of an established rule-set get so twisted when solutions outside of the established rule-set get used against them? Is this really the hill everyone wants to die on? The "anonymity" of someone who levelled a coded white supremacist message at a black player?

Rozalia was constantly looking for ways to catch Alex on some little quirk of rules in order to get his rocks off by outsmarting someone in a argument they weren't even trying to have. He got bored or pissy or whatever, and flooded the forums, then the game itself, with an ever escalating look into his sexual desires which culminated in him sending links to porn to minors. So Alex banned him, and probably lost his shit in the DM. I haven't seen it. I don't want to. Don't DM me. He probably went right of the fricking rails, which is what one does when someone takes up hours of your life being pedantic then jeopardizes your business with a possible fricking sex crime because you took away his access to the platform you made. And, as a side note, nobody complained when the mods specifically ignored Rozalia's constant mod attack threads during one of his hissy fits, explicitly telling him in public that they weren't giving him warn points he should have earned. Or when Alex stepped in to let Clarke have his stupid fricking MGTOW thread, breaking the stated rules in the vain attempt that he might get over his fricking baggage. But I digress.

This bounty issue is in the exact same category of rule pushing nonsense that Rozalia was constantly trying. Thalmor used the bounty system to hurl in-game abuse by circumventing the established blocks. Telling someone else who put a bounty on them isn't done in normal circumstances. You want to know what else isn't normal circumstances? Using a game to send a quote from a man convicted of a race based murder to another player. And we are all aware of that part about the 14/88 right? That the 14 words part comes from a man who murdered someone because he was Jewish? This shit comes with a lot more weight than any of you seem to be giving it.

And this isn't an issue of anonymity. Thalmor can drop this game and go back to his real life without any of this following him there. The only possible way people could view this as a breach of anonymity is by placing the value of "game integrity" close to that of real life. frick that shit. Your precious little IC bubble of drama and game politics doesn't take precedence over players invoking hate crimes against other players. You don't get to draw a neat and tidy little circle around acceptable behaviour and act like everything else is some unforgivable sin against the natural state of things. Especially when real world politics get brought in through other elements all the damn time.

You want a game without OOC politics? Get fricked. Existence is politics. It permeates every facet of social life and this game doesn't get to be any different. You don't just get to throw up a filter based on your interpretation of the status quo and say "This stuffs apolitical, everything else is you guys bringing politics in to our game space." No one can reasonably be expected to follow that. You could ask for people to be patient and considerate of where you're coming from, and ask them to do the work of making their perspective easier to understand, but the time for that is well before players start invoking real world deaths in a harassment campaign.

Was Sheepy unprofessional in his handling of the bounty? I don't think so, but I can see the case if you really, really value the integrity of the political sphere. You know whats worse than damage to the integrity of the political sphere. Coded. Racist. Death. Threats. Get some fricking perspective. Anyone seriously this worked up over something as ephemeral as IC politics needs to either slam themselves into vacation mode for 3 months or delete. Read a book. Eat more vegetables. Join a gym. Volunteer. Start a day planner. See your parents more. Meditate. Reflect on where you are in life versus where you want to be. Clean your room. Anything other than spending your limited time on this plane of existence trying to stick the manager of browser based nation sim on a technicality in the way he handled a problematic user.

Edited August 2, 2018 by durmij
typos

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

21 minutes ago, durmij said:

>death threats

Boiiiiiiiiii. Let's get real. Thalmor isn't stalking her or sending out his AB goons he met in prison. He's a nerdy young adult being a jackass like most people here. But please tell me more about how Thalmor's shitpost bounty is a dogwhistle for a great race war and massive genocide that's all being planned on P/W. 

[Keegoz]

I'm more annoyed that this war seems to be motivated solely on Thalmor's comments for quite a few individuals. You may not be able to completely separate rl politics from the game but you can certainly push it into the game, into people's faces and make decisions based solely on OOC comments. This isn't okay.

More annoying is the obvious jump in logic that if a member of KT made this bounty that therefore we clearly all condone it and are white supremacists. Ironically the exact thinking a racist would use, taking actions of individuals noting their skin colour and attributing that behaviour as common feature among that group.

Let's not act like plenty of those on the other side of this war don't use that logic (I've seen it plenty on discord and elsewhere). So those trying to act all moral on this well I don't think you have much of a standing.

[Kastor]

I like how all of us are arguing that Sheepy shouldn’t/should’ve violated Thalmor’s privacy, then Durmij comes in and tries to throw fire to flames that weren’t there.

This is why we hate CNN. Durmij is CNN.

[Clarke]

3 hours ago, Mitsuru said:

What is with your life that you believe it is your right to tell QueenM whether she is allowed to feel insulted or not? The number has a clear nazi-related meaning that is not even up for discussion. It's nor your right to determine whether or not this is offensive or not. I know you like to act like you're 12 but get over yourself.

What is with my life? frick her feelings, feelings are irrelevant. 

88 means Heil Hitler, how that is racist is beyond me. I'm the kid but you getting offended and cry over nothing, makes sense. Just because you're a Jew or a Black woman doesn't mean you're always victim like you want to be.

14 isn't particularly racist or offensive to anyone either, I bet if it was about black people none of you would bat an eye.

If you break it down the offensive angle is false, this was nothing more than a crude joke directed at a person with a victim complex who probably hates white people. It just so happens the lunatics run the asylum. 

[Clarke]

2 hours ago, durmij said:

Or when Alex stepped in to let Clarke have his stupid fricking MGTOW thread, breaking the stated rules in the vain attempt that he might get over his fricking baggage. But I digress.

MGTOW? I don't believe it was.

I imagine Alex kept the thread open because he knew it was a factual topic being discussed and not breaking the rules. I was quite surprised as well but evidently they were still pissed that it was valid and wanted it locked. 

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

2 hours ago, Kastor said:

I like how all of us are arguing that Sheepy shouldn’t/should’ve violated Thalmor’s privacy, then Durmij comes in and tries to throw fire to flames that weren’t there.

This is why we hate CNN. Durmij is CNN.

Hey now, don't insult CNN like that. They still have some self respect.

[James XVI]

3 hours ago, durmij said:

You want a game without OOC politics? Get fricked. Existence is politics. It permeates every facet of social life and this game doesn't get to be any different. You don't just get to throw up a filter based on your interpretation of the status quo and say "This stuffs apolitical, everything else is you guys bringing politics in to our game space." No one can reasonably be expected to follow that

Uhh, what? Usually its known as being able to grasp the difference between real life and a game. It really isn't hard.

- - - - -

An action linked to something against IG rules definitely deserves to be punished but making one moderation action public for clearly personal reasons makes no sense when game-side rule breaks are usually dealt with privately. May as well make every moderation action public if exceptions are going to be made.

[Vukodlak]

The saddest thing here is legitimately comparing someone sending an obscure white supremacist reference in a fricking video game to a hate crime. 

This is why people don't respect your politics durmij. You're doing more damage than any edgy guy with a keyboard ever could. You want people to take this seriously? Dont act like people saying stuff like this is a return of the third reich. I'm not saying it should be condoned. I'm just saying be realistic. 

Also, the "buh racism" high horse is outstanding here, only calling out racism and offensive speech when it serves your side. You know how many people find the hammer and sickle offensive? I likely had family starved to death in Holodomor. On my Polish side I obviously had family who had to live through attempted Russification. You didn't hear me crying to Alex when I stumbled on your flag. You obviously don't care about those who find that offensive, so please, dont be a hypocrite. 

[durmij]

4 hours ago, ⚡ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™??? said:

>death threats

Boiiiiiiiiii. Let's get real. Thalmor isn't stalking her or sending out his AB goons he met in prison. He's a nerdy young adult being a jackass like most people here. But please tell me more about how Thalmor's shitpost bounty is a dogwhistle for a great race war and massive genocide that's all being planned on P/W. 

I never said that Thalmor had any intention of sending her death threats, but that's functionally what he did in his ignorance. The purpose of coded messages isn't just to help them fly under the radar, but to get people to spread them unwittingly.

You're ignoring my point to bear down on a single word, making your assumptions from that word, then constructing a straw man from those assumptions.

2 hours ago, Clarke said:

MGTOW? I don't believe it was.

I imagine Alex kept the thread open because he knew it was a factual topic being discussed and not breaking the rules. I was quite surprised as well but evidently they were still pissed that it was valid and wanted it locked. 

Your thread was about women needing to have the vote stripped from them because the are inherently inferior. This goes directly against the stated game rule of sexism.

4 hours ago, Kastor said:

I like how all of us are arguing that Sheepy shouldn’t/should’ve violated Thalmor’s privacy, then Durmij comes in and tries to throw fire to flames that weren’t there.

Allow me to do you one better, Kastor.

At the end of a podcast/radio whatever on your channel in February of this year, you were narrating your snapchat endeavours while 3 or 4 other people were trying to talk about something else. I was listening in, but couldn't talk as I was sharing a hotel room with my parents while on vacation. Then you suddenly exclaim that someone took a screen shot of your snap and blocked you, lamenting that it had been an unsolicited dick pic. You went on to clarify that you didn't know whether or not the intended receipt was of age. The rest of the conversation laughed you off, iirc someone called you a dumb ass, but no one followed up on your admission that you had committed harassment, and maybe much worse if your target was in fact a minor.

This behaviour is exactly in line with your past. Your radio show was constantly interjected by you forwarding pictures of women without their consent to fish for attention from the audience. Nothing too risque, but definitely outside the bounds of what any decent person would do. Add that to the story of Jessica Rabbit having to seek out your mother to stop your advances toward her, and we get the completed portrayal of what you are. A sexual deviant, however inept and bumbling in that endeavour you may be.

This will be the third time I have leveled this against you on the forums. The last two times, most people, including yourself, ignored it completely. I won't bring it up a fourth time; I know enough from having friends deal with people like you that you won't be punished. And honestly, this isn't about punishment. I think you need a sexual addiction intervention or something along those lines. I know it won't happen, but you need help.

[Odin]

14 = 14 words, was described here previously.   We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children.   

Pretty sure Thalmor only asked Queen M in in a subtle way to protect white children together. He even used the term "our people", to not only include everyone, but to promote the socialist values of his intention. Not sure what this sentence alone could mean otherwise ?

 

Btw... racism isn't directly against the rules, only harassment and nazism. 88 is pretty obvious, and a strike can be seen as justified (according to the rules). Seeing racism though, in combination with either the words that are behind 14 and behind 88 are pretty farfetched. 

Anyone here that says we shouldn't secure the existence of our people and a future for children that have a white skin color?  Come on, guys, anyone? Let's see who's racist here.

And while "Heil H*tler" is nazism, no "race" should feel insulted by that. That's clearly, at most, a subjective feeling.

Real Kindergarden here, get some backbone and counter-bounty Thalmor with some hidden BLM or MLK lines or whatever, i'm sure he won't break down at home, drowning in his own tears.  

[Queen M II]

@Nite Owl @Honey Monster @Inanimate Carbon Rod@Alice Abernathy @Alex

Please lock this thread. 

[Buorhann]

The bounty itself and whether it was racist or not, doesn't matter at this point.  It was enough of a controversial move that was rightfully reported and 'striked' against.  While Thalmor is more of a joker, the joke there was in poor taste.  Especially at a time when mods have been attempting to quell such things (Wasn't the Nazism/Communism rule just added in a few months ago?  That's not exactly upheld right either, but that's a different discussion.  Just for example, look at some of the war decs done on KT members).

The issue here is the fact that even after punishment was dealt out, people became aware of what was suppose to be anon information.  Had it not came out and simply been "The offensive party was taken care of and will be under watch for any repeat offenses", we wouldn't be having this thread or questioning the moderated action.  The fact it did come out draws out a few questions, at least from me:

What's the point of the bounty system if people have access to the information?

What was the point of giving out the information?

If the action was so condemning to the point of alerting a player of who it was, why not just ban/remove the player to begin with?  (Seems people have recently cited that it was a legit threat, so if it was, why not remove the player then?)

Also, at what point will there be moderation action that doesn't come off with bias?  (You may say "Well they're racist/sexist shitbags, they deserve it" - I'm not questioning the punishment, I'm questioning the actions that take it past it.  You can remain "neutral" and still enact punishments you see fit, that way there's no bias coming off that could upset other parts of the community)

 

( @durmij - People don't ignore Kastor's stupidity with his Snapchat and some are aware of his story with "JR" by now, well, especially by now  (It wasn't JR, just FYI).  You just keep bringing it up to derail a topic when it has nothing to do with it.  And I know what you're referring to, because I was the one in the VC that called him a dumb ass for it.  Also, he never posted up "proof" of the endeavor, he simply mentioned it.)

Edited August 2, 2018 by Buorhann

[Sphinx]

Just when I thought Walmart couldn't get any worse, I find out they support Genocide too!

What is this world coming to....

[Kastor]

2 hours ago, durmij said:

Allow me to do you one better, Kastor.

At the end of a podcast/radio whatever on your channel in February of this year, you were narrating your snapchat endeavours while 3 or 4 other people were trying to talk about something else. I was listening in, but couldn't talk as I was sharing a hotel room with my parents while on vacation. Then you suddenly exclaim that someone took a screen shot of your snap and blocked you, lamenting that it had been an unsolicited dick pic. You went on to clarify that you didn't know whether or not the intended receipt was of age. The rest of the conversation laughed you off, iirc someone called you a dumb ass, but no one followed up on your admission that you had committed harassment, and maybe much worse if your target was in fact a minor.

This behaviour is exactly in line with your past. Your radio show was constantly interjected by you forwarding pictures of women without their consent to fish for attention from the audience. Nothing too risque, but definitely outside the bounds of what any decent person would do. Add that to the story of Jessica Rabbit having to seek out your mother to stop your advances toward her, and we get the completed portrayal of what you are. A sexual deviant, however inept and bumbling in that endeavour you may be.

This will be the third time I have leveled this against you on the forums. The last two times, most people, including yourself, ignored it completely. I won't bring it up a fourth time; I know enough from having friends deal with people like you that you won't be punished. And honestly, this isn't about punishment. I think you need a sexual addiction intervention or something along those lines. I know it won't happen, but you need help.

I’ll finally bite.

Regardless of what happened, you have 0 knowledge of the personal relationship I may or may not have had with this person. You don’t know her age, you don’t know her nationality, you don’t know anything about the person. On top of that you also know little about me. Based off that, based off that it’s also a radio show for ENTERTAINMENT, and based off that my relationships, sexual in nature or not, have nothing to do with you. The real reason everyone ignores this isn’t because I’m some gem beloved by the community or something like that, it’s simply because them attacking me, like you’ve done these past few months, is unacceptable, unprecedented, and arguably harassment. 

It’s amazing that your continued portrayal of me, public and private, is this way. You can disagree with what I say/do, but to constantly harass me and compare me to being a “sex deviant” off of baseless rumors and conclusions that YOU YOURSELF JUMPED TOO. 

It’s also amazing how you continue to attack me, when you literally sent your dick pic to a member of Rose while leading. Completely “unaware” that she didn’t want it. You had to apologize and she ended up leaving Rose, though I believe other reasons were involved as well. 

So please, do not lecture me over a joke, that majority of people knew was a joke. Stop these baseless narratives and accusations that hold up little when actually examined with the smallest of microscopes. 

[Redarmy]

This thread... wow. 

[Settra]

4 hours ago, durmij said:

You're ignoring my point to bear down on a single word, making your assumptions from that word, then constructing a straw man from those assumptions.

Damn @durmij why you getting upset over people doing what you do?

Using the game admin to attack a bunch of people.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Settra

[Alexio15]

*walks in*

*looks around* 

*walks straight back out*

Damn this is a car crash.

[Darth Revan]

Thanks for reminding us why nobody outside this war cares for it 

[Sargun]

14 hours ago, Buorhann said:

No, there's more to this.

No, there isn't.

There is absolutely nothing within the rules of the game that says "Admin will keep everything you do anonymously, no matter how shitty of a human being you are".  In fact, the punishments laid out in the Game Rules specifically have "but not limited to" in order to leave room for whoever is running Admin of the game to do whatever they want in response to any rule violation they want. 

You asked, verbatim, "What's the point of having a mechanic based on anonymosity if you're just going to give up information on it?"  The answer to that is: don't use an anonymous mechanic to send racially motivated messages against other players, whether as a joke or not.  If you're not going to say "we must secure the future of the world for the white race, heil hitler",  then you're not going to get exposed!  That doesn't sound so hard!  Then again, we are talking about KT here, so it may actually be hard for you.

You stated, verbatim, "Plus Sheepy has stated before that he doesn't get involved in the politics of the game.  This action shows he does."  The rebuttal to this is: being racist is not a political action, it is personal.  There is nothing in-character or political about making anonymous racist statements against other people.  By canceling the action and notifying the other player that they were being targeted, Admin did the right thing - he didn't make a big post about it, he didn't shame ET/KT/TGH, he did nothing except expose the racist actions of another player in a private manner.  That is, again, not political!  The only reason you would think exposing racism is political is if you think that racism is a normal, natural political stance that you agree with - either that, or you know it isn't political so you're trying to make it into one.  And if you're trying to make "exposing racism is bad" a political stance, you're not going to convince anybody here.

The only thing you're trying to do here is to make your war opponents look bad by going "omg the game is out to get us, they're in league with the admins to make us look bad".  No, the only one looking like an !@#$ here is you for enabling this garbage and trying to turn it into political theatre.  You're not fooling anyone with your "TKR supports OOC" garbage campaign you're going to try to run after this thread, and you're not fooling anyone with your fake concern trolling crocodile tears here.

[Buorhann]

Really Sargun?  Are you even aware of the talks that was had or are you just spouting stuff for the sake of it?

I was very confident I made my own stance clear, but do please continue another wall of text arguing otherwise.

[Queen M II]

8 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Really Sargun?  Are you even aware of the talks that was had or are you just spouting stuff for the sake of it?

Are you aware of talks that have been had? 

There is a clear disconnect here (or blatant lies) and I’d love to clear it up, but I understand the only gov not afraid of lil’ ol’ me and have the balls to clear the air in your coalition are Sketchy and Theo. 

 

Mods, please lock. The ability to have nuanced, intelligent discussion is impossible here and it’s just going to get more malignant. Thank you.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

I am happy to know that if someone tries to anonymously racially harass me or anyone else in-game, that the people that run the game will come to mine or anyone else's aid.  To see something like this come from an established alliance leader is pretty disheartening.  Be better guys, its really not that hard.

[Kastor]

Just now, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I am happy to know that if someone tries to anonymously racially harass me or anyone else in-game, that the people that run the game will come to mine or anyone else's aid.  To see something like this come from an established alliance leader is pretty disheartening.  Be better guys, its really not that hard.

But he’s not the alliance leader, and hasn’t been for awhile.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

1 minute ago, Kastor said:

But he’s not the alliance leader, and hasn’t been for awhile.

That's what you take from that statement?  Kastor you are killing me.