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War Stats


Adrienne
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40 minutes ago, Mitsuru said:

I mean that means that you have even more than 46 as July isn't in there yet. ?

Well, Micchan did say 'only in the month of June' so I imagine we're counting July separately

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Also, Smith, the "gap" you speak of was already large to begin with.  Afterall, you're fighting an aggressive war against alliances that literally got out of an actual major war a month and some change prior.  We're already aware of the differences between our resource pools (It's not like KT didn't hit TKR's bank or something to give us a clue).

 

Edited by Buorhann
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5 hours ago, Smith said:

However, lets think about the daily opportunity cost in lost revenue both sides face from not being able to rebuild. This daily cost would be far greater for TGH/KT/ET due to the severe amount of damage your nations have taken. On the other hand, many of our nations are still generating a high amount of revenue. Just to use myself as an example: I fought in a bunch of wars in the first few rounds, ate a few nukes etc. I am still generating between $10-12 million a day and I'm sure there are plenty others who are making more. I doubt anyone on your side can say the same. This has a much greater impact on the daily cost our two coalitions endure than the amount of gas/munitions that are being used. In other words, the gap between us isn't shrinking, it's getting bigger.

Perhaps you're thinking of the opportunity cost of all the mobilization you're forced to stay under in order to protect your expensive infrastructure? Both improvement slots and upkeep while in full war mode are very expensive; you should be generating probably double what you are right now. But, perhaps luckily for you, we're not counting nor tracking the upkeep costs or lost manufacturing opportunities in how much damage you're taking on account of the war.

But hey, feel free to decom your military and get back into the fight alongside your lower tier, if you're brave enough to face what your followers are facing every day.

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7 hours ago, Smith said:

The fact that you guys suddenly feel the need to incorporate the gas and munitions used into your stats (how does us using gas qualify as taking "damage" exactly?) is pretty amusing to me. Especially since you didn't use them in the stats you were parading around just a few months ago during your war with IQ. I think it's pretty obvious what caused this change for you.

I see you are doing more alternative fact finding.

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6 hours ago, Sketchy said:

1: I shared stats not long after this thread was posted, in this thread, in which I included munitions and gasoline. This isn't exactly a new development. 

2: I didn't collect stats for usage in the previous war. That was someone else. Who isn't in this war. The same stats were collected for the TKR/NB war. I know you tend to treat individuals like monolithic hiveminds who all share coordinated opinions and positions, but unfortunately that doesn't reflect reality my friend.

3: Yes, we aren't using as much munitions and gasoline since that was the strategy from the start. That is literally the point of the strategy. Not sure why the costs of military units would apply but not the costs to fund them.

4: I didn't make a comment one way or the other, so trying to claim that I pretended these factors all don't exist is false. I wasn't the one who started a thread without the full stats, there are multiple other stats that aren't included on either of the examples made by myself or Nizam. More stats is better than less. If people with the ability to collect those stats want to share them, they are more than welcome. Perhaps instead of whining, you should compile these stats?

5: "You are attempting to use this to create the misconception that the gap between our two sides is shrinking." Actually, if you look at the stats I shared before and after you'd know the gap is shrinking on other factors as well, Infra damages and Military damages being the main ones. That being said, I was literally just posting the stats as they are. Stop pretending to read minds you aren't very good at it.

 

 

 

"I didn''t post war stats last war. Please treat me like the unique individual that I am." 

Except you literally created the thread called "War Stats", where you posted war stats.

Based on your logic last war you started a thread "without the full stats". Now, you can argue that this was just "stat tracker stats" etc etc. But, if you are going to use this stat now I am going to point out how it misrepresents the war as a whole. 

Like I had already said in my original post that you replied to there is not way I can think of to track the opportunity cost without a lot of guess work/estimations. Feel free to recommend one. But, if you are going to track gas/mun stats for this war as part of the "damage" stat that you caused, then we should consider the other costs of keeping the war going for you and how it is disproportionately severe to your side. 

 

3 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Also, Smith, the "gap" you speak of was already large to begin with.  Afterall, you're fighting an aggressive war against alliances that literally got out of an actual major war a month and some change prior.  We're already aware of the differences between our resource pools (It's not like KT didn't hit TKR's bank or something to give us a clue).

 

 

The point I am making is not about our resource pool now or before the war started. It is the opportunity cost that each individual nation faces each day. For example iirc I was making around $16 mil in profit a day before the war (I can't remember exactly how much). Now I make $10-12 so my opportunity cost is $4-6 million a day. For your coalition it would be much greater every single day due to the higher level of damage you have taken. 

Edited by Smith

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Tracking Munitions/Fuel shows efficiency of resource spending, but do please keep putting words into people's mouths.  If you honestly believe that you're fine, then keep on going as is.  We will be.

(Just FYI, you're trying to argue the point that people should peace out for the sake of pixel hugging with your opportunity cost analysis.  Guess what alliances you're fighting?  Maybe you should ask more alliances to come in, it is your shtick to have overwhelming odds in order to make a move afterall.)

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26 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Tracking Munitions/Fuel shows efficiency of resource spending, but do please keep putting words into people's mouths.  If you honestly believe that you're fine, then keep on going as is.  We will be.

(Just FYI, you're trying to argue the point that people should peace out for the sake of pixel hugging with your opportunity cost analysis.  Guess what alliances you're fighting?  Maybe you should ask more alliances to come in, it is your shtick to have overwhelming odds in order to make a move afterall.)

 

I'm fine with the war continuing (though I have no say in this), but if we're including these types of stats then I am going to paint the complete picture. 

Edited by Smith

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10 hours ago, Smith said:

 

"I didn''t post war stats last war. Please treat me like the unique individual that I am." 

Except you literally created the thread called "War Stats", where you posted war stats.

Based on your logic last war you started a thread "without the full stats". Now, you can argue that this was just "stat tracker stats" etc etc. But, if you are going to use this stat now I am going to point out how it misrepresents the war as a whole. 

Like I had already said in my original post that you replied to there is not way I can think of to track the opportunity cost without a lot of guess work/estimations. Feel free to recommend one. But, if you are going to track gas/mun stats for this war as part of the "damage" stat that you caused, then we should consider the other costs of keeping the war going for you and how it is disproportionately severe to your side. 

 

 

The point I am making is not about our resource pool now or before the war started. It is the opportunity cost that each individual nation faces each day. For example iirc I was making around $16 mil in profit a day before the war (I can't remember exactly how much). Now I make $10-12 so my opportunity cost is $4-6 million a day. For your coalition it would be much greater every single day due to the higher level of damage you have taken. 

Yes I did, before I had any idea how to collect the wider stats last war. Someone else posted proper stats and I stopped updating it and let them handle it. In fact, that little incident is why I never posted up my stats (which were incomplete too) in the first place this war, until Nizam posted up this thread. I told this to Nizam when she approached me about stats gathering near the start of the war.

Plus frankly, Had I have done so, you'd probably literally be in the thread whining that I didn't include resource loot and all the other missing stats, because its not the stats you have an issue with its the source. 

And no, the point you were making in your first post was that by posting statistics (which are accurate) and making no comment on them, I was pushing "propaganda", as opposed to the multiple paragraph response you felt the need to make to discredit them. You obviously didn't see my first stats share earlier in the thread before now, because I assume you'd have not made the claim I was trying to show the gap closing from your stats otherwise, surely.

Your argument is literally "We made partial stats, you added to those stats with more stats of your own, how dare you not add these other stats too that we didn't include in our own". This isn't even to mention the fact I included all of the bank alliances data from day 1 onwards (which based on my talk with Nizam, she was unable to collect). So my infra and military stats are more accurate and are currently up to date.

Perhaps instead of overreacting and whining, you could instead apply that time to learning how to best collect stats and collect them and post them yourself rather than bashing others who are actually doing the work.

 

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17 hours ago, Sketchy said:

Yes I did, before I had any idea how to collect the wider stats last war. Someone else posted proper stats and I stopped updating it and let them handle it. In fact, that little incident is why I never posted up my stats (which were incomplete too) in the first place this war, until Nizam posted up this thread. I told this to Nizam when she approached me about stats gathering near the start of the war.

Plus frankly, Had I have done so, you'd probably literally be in the thread whining that I didn't include resource loot and all the other missing stats, because its not the stats you have an issue with its the source. 

And no, the point you were making in your first post was that by posting statistics (which are accurate) and making no comment on them, I was pushing "propaganda", as opposed to the multiple paragraph response you felt the need to make to discredit them. You obviously didn't see my first stats share earlier in the thread before now, because I assume you'd have not made the claim I was trying to show the gap closing from your stats otherwise, surely.

Your argument is literally "We made partial stats, you added to those stats with more stats of your own, how dare you not add these other stats too that we didn't include in our own". This isn't even to mention the fact I included all of the bank alliances data from day 1 onwards (which based on my talk with Nizam, she was unable to collect). So my infra and military stats are more accurate and are currently up to date.

Perhaps instead of overreacting and whining, you could instead apply that time to learning how to best collect stats and collect them and post them yourself rather than bashing others who are actually doing the work.

 

Then don't say you weren't involved in stats when you literally created the thread for it and posted stats. Just because you gave up on it doesn't mean you didn't do it. 

Also, the fact that you have taken the time to collect the stats (which frankly I appreciate that you, Micchan, Radoje etc do this) does not mean I am not going to call you out on something. But, feel free to continue ignoring the multiple times I've already said there really isn't an accurate way to track these opportunity costs. 

 

Anyway, you seem to be misinterpreting my argument. My argument is that your inclusion of gas/mun can be very misleading for someone who is going to quickly glance at them. Traditionally stats are used to show who has done more damage in the wars they are fighting. In fact, you even factored the gas/mun into the total "damage". That requires a very loose understand of what the word damage means at best and is intentionally disingenuous at worse. 

But if you are going to start including these things as "damage" (when really they are just costs), I am going to point out the other daily costs of running the war that those stats don't reflect. And I will point out how those costs affect your side exponentially more than ours. 

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4 hours ago, Smith said:

But if you are going to start including these things as "damage" (when really they are just costs), I am going to point out the other daily costs of running the war that those stats don't reflect. And I will point out how those costs affect your side exponentially more than ours. 

There is literally no form of "damage" that isn't "just costs". Including the steel/aluminum costs of units but not including their gas/munitions costs would be inaccurate and indeed disingenuous as they are direct expenditures suffered on account of engaging one's opponents.

And sure, we've got low infrastructure... but we've also got low gas/munition/upkeep costs, and are still running positive revenues due to that, while maintaining positive net damage per day, every day, for the last month. We can continue this pretty much indefinitely. Meanwhile, you've got high infrastructure... but also high gas/munition/upkeep costs, and your infrastructure is orders of magnitude more expensive to replace than ours, which is relevant for every missile, nuke, and yes beige that you weather on our account.

Now, you can accurately claim that your revenues are indeed higher than ours. I would respond by arguing that your revenues would be higher than ours in any case whatsoever purely due to the number of pixel-hugger farmers you've recruited over the years, but would be far higher still were you not vainly throwing resources towards attempting to break an unbreakable will.

Full mobilization across your entire alliance means each and every city is using about half a dozen improvement slots for stashing military and protecting pixels that would otherwise have been used for manufacturing, raws, or commerce. If anything, the scale of your alliances work against you because of that; you have that many more cities economically gimped and that much more upkeep to pay. Every day this war continues slows your economy that much more, and until you have hard numbers to back up your claim that we're affected "exponentially more", I say that you are deeply underestimating how much you're losing in terms of 'daily costs'.

Look, if you want me to calculate it for you, just tell me exactly what your standard peacetime build and militarization would be and I'll try to do the math myself; it's simple arithmetic once you remove the variables of what 'peace' means.

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From stats collected 2 days ago (not counting bank loot)

Gasoline looted by TKR: 514,937

Munitions looted by TKR: 562,140

We are fighting with your resources :3

And yes I run airstrikes on low infra cities with raid wars because I can

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Next stats they will post:

1 Average land per cities

2 Total money made with baseball

3 Average nation age

4 Total number of awards

5 Average GDP per capita

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5 hours ago, Smith said:

Then don't say you weren't involved in stats when you literally created the thread for it and posted stats. Just because you gave up on it doesn't mean you didn't do it. 

Also, the fact that you have taken the time to collect the stats (which frankly I appreciate that you, Micchan, Radoje etc do this) does not mean I am not going to call you out on something. But, feel free to continue ignoring the multiple times I've already said there really isn't an accurate way to track these opportunity costs. 

 

Anyway, you seem to be misinterpreting my argument. My argument is that your inclusion of gas/mun can be very misleading for someone who is going to quickly glance at them. Traditionally stats are used to show who has done more damage in the wars they are fighting. In fact, you even factored the gas/mun into the total "damage". That requires a very loose understand of what the word damage means at best and is intentionally disingenuous at worse. 

But if you are going to start including these things as "damage" (when really they are just costs), I am going to point out the other daily costs of running the war that those stats don't reflect. And I will point out how those costs affect your side exponentially more than ours. 

1: Your claim was that various people "paraded" stats that didn't include muns/gas usage in the previous war. My claim was that the stats they were parading were not mine, and I ultimately had no input in the collection of stats past round 1. You also made the claim that I was "fine with posting partial stats" that war, but that incident is the reason I didn't post them this war initially. You are trying to exaggerate the situation to make a point.

2: If there isn't an accurate way to track these opportunity costs, then WHY ARE YOU WHINING ABOUT IT. I never said these opportunity costs didn't exist, in fact I didn't say anything in my initial post besides share the image, you are basically just creating a strawman for you to froth at the mouth at.

3: I mean, I can change the word damage to cost if you like, its a debate of semantics. People with basic comprehension skills can read what is and isn't included in the stats as its literally on the screenshot. Guess what isn't included in either stats? Resource loot for one. That would be part of the damages right? I guess we should just throw both statistics completely out then because neither of them have every single factor. 

You are applying a standard for what I shared that you didn't apply for what was shared in the OP. Who is hellbent on spreading propaganda now?

 

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2 hours ago, Micchan said:

From stats collected 2 days ago (not counting bank loot)

Gasoline looted by TKR: 514,937

Munitions looted by TKR: 562,140

We are fighting with your resources :3

And yes I run airstrikes on low infra cities with raid wars because I can

Looks like you are fighting with some of our resources, but the whole war isn't funded by them.

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