Plot Und Panzer

[The Emperor]

2 minutes ago, durmij said:

"Just because they named themselves after a vanguard of a genocidal regime, doesn't make their name bad."

The name is inherently bad, the theme is inherently bad, your argumentation is inherently bad.

All moot because it's against the game rules.

 

1 minute ago, Mitsuru said:

Yes the name is inherently bad. You just don't understand that.

 

You're one of the last people in this game who's opinion I care about.

So them using this thing is inherently bad? Who is going to die because they used this theme? Who is going to be oppressed? What population is going to be systematically murdered because a PnW Alliance liked anime girls in tiger tanks?

Nothing bad will happen, so it is morally not bad. That is how morality works, it's not simply just say whatever feels right XD I'm sad I need to explain this stuff to adults =/

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

I bet there was a kamikaze pilot or Unit 731member named Mitsuru...

28 minutes ago, durmij said:

"Just because they named themselves after a vanguard of a genocidal regime, doesn't make their name bad."

The name is inherently bad, the theme is inherently bad, your argumentation is inherently bad.

All moot because it's against the game rules.

 

[durmij]

17 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

 

So them using this thing is inherently bad? Who is going to die because they used this theme? Who is going to be oppressed? What population is going to be systematically murdered because a PnW Alliance liked anime girls in tiger tanks?

Nothing bad will happen, so it is morally not bad. That is how morality works, it's not simply just say whatever feels right XD I'm sad I need to explain this stuff to adults =/

The game has had an ongoing, near year long struggle with people filling up discords and the forums alike with toxic garbage and using stuff like this to skirt the line and build a space for the promotion of their discriminatory views. Trying to push forth ideas like the inherent inferiority of racial minorities and women. You not being aware of this because you failed to pay attention is not the fault of the rest of us, and we don't have to entertain your ignorance.

Saying nothing bad will happen is not only an improvable absolute, but shows that you are blissfully unaware of the well documented, real world consequences that others have to bear because of cultural battles like this. Diminishing concerns down to feels and age shows that you don't have the skill set need to make a real argument, nor are you approaching this in good faith.

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

7 minutes ago, durmij said:

The game has had an ongoing, near year long struggle with people filling up discords and the forums alike with toxic garbage and using stuff like this to skirt the line and build a space for the promotion of their discriminatory views. Trying to push forth ideas like the inherent inferiority of racial minorities and women. You not being aware of this because you failed to pay attention is not the fault of the rest of us, and we don't have to entertain your ignorance.

Saying nothing bad will happen is not only an improvable absolute, but shows that you are blissfully unaware of the well documented, real world consequences that others have to bear because of cultural battles like this. Diminishing concerns down to feels and age shows that you don't have the skill set need to make a real argument, nor are you approaching this in good faith.

Whine harder, the mods can't hear you.

[ArcKnox]

Jesus, either get a spine and declare on them or get the frick over yourself.

[The Emperor]

1 minute ago, durmij said:

The game has had an ongoing, near year long struggle with people filling up discords and the forums alike with toxic garbage and using stuff like this to skirt the line and build a space for the promotion of their discriminatory views. Trying to push forth ideas like the inherent inferiority of racial minorities and women. You not being aware of this because you failed to pay attention is not the fault of the rest of us, and we don't have to entertain your ignorance.

Saying nothing bad will happen is not only an improvable absolute, but shows that you are blissfully unaware of the well documented, real world consequences that others have to bear because of cultural battles like this. Diminishing concerns down to feels and age shows that you don't have the skill set need to make a real argument, nor are you approaching this in good faith.

Wait, so are you saying that this alliance is an attempt to " this to skirt the line and build a space for the promotion of their discriminatory views."? Are you saying this anime themed alliance will reasonably cause amoral things to happen? If not, everything you said is irreverent...(And if yes, you're conclusions are silly XD) You are setting them up using a strawman argument with that post, sure that crap is real, but it is not them, so while as noble as you like to build yourself up to be.. it's poor form and has nothing to do with this instance. Without a small bit of Irony though, the same vein of logic you used here actually is the core of racism and tribalism XD. "Because something looks like something else that I didnt like, they must be similar" and whatnot

[durmij]

4 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Wait, so are you saying that this alliance is an attempt to " this to skirt the line and build a space for the promotion of their discriminatory views."? Are you saying this anime themed alliance will reasonably cause amoral things to happen? If not, everything you said is irreverent...(And if yes, you're conclusions are silly XD) You are setting them up using a strawman argument with that post, sure that crap is real, but it is not them, so while as noble as you like to build yourself up to be.. it's poor form and has nothing to do with this instance. Without a small bit of Irony though, the same vein of logic you used here actually is the core of racism and tribalism XD. "Because something looks like something else that I didnt like, they must be similar" and whatnot

Your logical arguments are about on par with the results of your terms of leadership of Pantheon. You dismiss it for being similar to something, when it was in fact a component of it. You attack along an absurdist vector so it doesn't matter that you fail to address my points. You ignore game history, and double down by ignoring my point that you ignore game history. Then you try to apply linear logic, comparing a strawman of a bastardization of my argument to a reducto ad absurdum definition of racism. And I am wholly confident in the fact that your next post will simply be a repeat of your last 2, fallacies intact.

[The Emperor]

14 minutes ago, durmij said:

Your logical arguments are about on par with the results of your terms of leadership of Pantheon. You dismiss it for being similar to something, when it was in fact a component of it. You attack along an absurdist vector so it doesn't matter that you fail to address my points. You ignore game history, and double down by ignoring my point that you ignore game history. Then you try to apply linear logic, comparing a strawman of a bastardization of my argument to a reducto ad absurdum definition of racism. And I am wholly confident in the fact that your next post will simply be a repeat of your last 2, fallacies intact.

I single highhandedly built the #1AA ingame nearly entirely by myself from scratch XD. I built the largest econ the game had ever seen with my programs And you should try to learn to understand an argument before you post, entertaining multiple views is key to any sort of successful debate or else you'll keep on being so confused IMO. Just because you dont understand something, does not mean it does not make sense, being human is hard.

Edited June 7, 2018 by The God Emperor of Mankind
The Emperor, and grammar, mostly grammar

[durmij]

4 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I single handled built the #1AA ingame nearly entirely by myself from scratch XD. I built the largest econ the game had ever seen with my plans And you should try to learn to understand an argument before you post, entertaining multiple views is key to any sort of successful debate or else you'll keep on being so confused IMO. Just because you dont understand something, does not mean it does not make sense, being human is hard.

I understand your arguments just fine. Your arguments are all either examples of linear logic when you're on the offense (that's the one where things having a similar element are automatically equivocated), or a complete disregard of nuance and history when you're on the defense. You've done nothing to expand on your arguments, and they all overly rely on your internal values and experience. I keep pointing out that your arguments are shallow and off the cuff, and you just keep retreating into ad hominem. Not saying I haven't sprinkled ad hom into my posts, but it's literally the foundation of your logic.

Also, single handedly is a pretty bold claim. Even when I was meming the Great Durmij Restoration, I highlighted the work put in by the people in my gov and other prominent members. Hell, I still say Sketchy was more important to rebuilding Rose than I was. Methinks your pride is a little damaged after recent events.

[rey]

1 hour ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Just because something is based on ww2 German stuff does not mean in anyway that they support Nazi Ideology(People supporting that stuff is really the 'bad' that one can accuse people of, using Nazi Era tanks/ww2-mil is not inherently a bad thing. And they are cool looking XD), that is a false equivalency implied by you when you incorrectly label them a "Naziweeb Alliance". You are slandering their alliance with your flawed logic, apologizing to them would now be the decent thing to do Mitsuru 

I dunno, momma always told me the decent thing to do was not expose society to Nazi-weaboo bullshit

 

As to your point about nobody being harmed, sure, I'll bite; allowing the imagery alone to spread in the context of a "good thing" is how you get propaganda for nazis 

[Prefonteen]

2 hours ago, Mitsuru said:

One of the first images you get is the palm tree that you can also see in the original post only that the symbol in the middle is replaced by a nazi swastika (I'm not gonna upload this picture here). Afrika Korps (in German: Deutsches Afrikakorps) was an expeditionary force during WWII of Nazi Germany in North Africa led by Erwin Rommel who at the time was one of Adolf Hitler's favorite generals. What you basically have here is therefore an alliance that is based on nazis.

Obviously they will vehemently deny this and argue that their alliance is based on an anime. That of course doesn't change the fact though that the anime is also based on nazi stuff. So basically the alliance is a naziweeb alliance.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mitsuru said:

You are certainly not the right person to talk about decency Fist.

Besides that, whether they support this or not (I actually assume they don't), their alliance is based on it. That's not up for discussion. The theme of the alliance is nazis (simply based on the name if not anything else) and anime. There's not really much to argue about that.

 

1 hour ago, Mitsuru said:

You didn't understand what I said. The name "Afrika Korps" (which is literally the name of the alliance) was a nazi expedition force in Africa.

Afrika Korps = Nazism

Alliance name = Afrika Korps = Nazi symbolism

I hope that was easy enough to understand.

 

1 hour ago, MinesomeMC said:

Anime and Nazis..... Good luck guys

 

1 hour ago, durmij said:

"Just because they named themselves after a vanguard of a genocidal regime, doesn't make their name bad."

The name is inherently bad, the theme is inherently bad, your argumentation is inherently bad.

All moot because it's against the game rules.

 

1 hour ago, Mitsuru said:

Yes the name is inherently bad. You just don't understand that.

 

You're one of the last people in this game who's opinion I care about.

 

1 hour ago, durmij said:

The game has had an ongoing, near year long struggle with people filling up discords and the forums alike with toxic garbage and using stuff like this to skirt the line and build a space for the promotion of their discriminatory views. Trying to push forth ideas like the inherent inferiority of racial minorities and women. You not being aware of this because you failed to pay attention is not the fault of the rest of us, and we don't have to entertain your ignorance.

Saying nothing bad will happen is not only an improvable absolute, but shows that you are blissfully unaware of the well documented, real world consequences that others have to bear because of cultural battles like this. Diminishing concerns down to feels and age shows that you don't have the skill set need to make a real argument, nor are you approaching this in good faith.

Are you guys really going to SJW the shit out of this one too? Come ooooon.

 

In any case: There is nothing to see here. As far as I have seen and heard, the theme has been pre-emptively checked with Alex to ensure that it adheres to Alex' vision of and regulations on how the forums should be administered. As Alex saw no foul, it's a closed case.

(If per chance this turns out to be untrue and alex decides to take action, then fair enough. I stand corrected and you have a point)

Now you can try to blow this into a "BOOO NAZI" witch hunt, but your efforts would be better served addressing the far more blatant and grievous "threats" to morality and common decency which seem to have infected these fora over the past months, rather than pestering a random meme-ing micro.

 

In other words: frick off boys.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Prefonteen

[The Emperor]

1 minute ago, durmij said:

I understand your arguments just fine. Your arguments are all either examples of linear logic when you're on the offense (that's the one where things having a similar element are automatically equivocated), or a complete disregard of nuance and history when you're on the defense. You've done nothing to expand on your arguments, and they all overly rely on your internal values and experience. I keep pointing out that your arguments are shallow and off the cuff, and you just keep retreating into ad hominem. Not saying I haven't sprinkled ad hom into my posts, but it's literally the foundation of your logic.

Also, single handedly is a pretty bold claim. Even when I was meming the Great Durmij Restoration, I highlighted the work put in by the people in my gov and other prominent members. Hell, I still say Sketchy was more important to rebuilding Rose than I was. Methinks your pride is a little damaged after recent events.

 No, no you don't. You don't understand the intricacies of morality, you do not understand how you where trying to paint something as something it was not, all my points where clearly lost on you XD. You clearly keep confusing things like "PNW having a problem" with them "Being a problem", you really just keep proving me right with every post so there isnt really much for me to say, I had you pegged several posts ago unfortunately

And Unfortunately, I did do all the recruiting, FA, Mil prep, econ, mentoring, and whatnot =/. Building an alliance from scratch sucks man, though Don Juan did give good advice and Yui did process the apps later down the road, the lions share was always on me XD. Recruiting sucked before the age of bots hahah

I do have a question though if you'd indulge me, purely for science ofc. Are you one of the types that though Hillary Clinton would of been a good president?

[Printer635]

24 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I single highhandedly built the #1AA ingame nearly entirely by myself from scratch XD. 

Er, by my reckoning you deserve no more than 1/3 of the credit.

Even then, that's disregarding everyone else who helped build Pantheon to what it was.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Printer635

[Prefonteen]

9 minutes ago, durmij said:

I understand your arguments just fine. Your arguments are all either examples of linear logic when you're on the offense (that's the one where things having a similar element are automatically equivocated), or a complete disregard of nuance and history when you're on the defense. You've done nothing to expand on your arguments, and they all overly rely on your internal values and experience. I keep pointing out that your arguments are shallow and off the cuff, and you just keep retreating into ad hominem. Not saying I haven't sprinkled ad hom into my posts, but it's literally the foundation of your logic.

Also, single handedly is a pretty bold claim. Even when I was meming the Great Durmij Restoration, I highlighted the work put in by the people in my gov and other prominent members. Hell, I still say Sketchy was more important to rebuilding Rose than I was. Methinks your pride is a little damaged after recent events.

"You used ad hominem for your logic so you lose even though I admit I used ad hominem too but you were worse so you lose".

 

[The Emperor]

2 minutes ago, Printer635 said:

Er, by my reckoning you deserve no more than 1/3 of the credit.

Even then, that's disregarding everyone else who helped build Pantheon to what it was.

Let's go into this another time XD THis isnt the place now that I think on it...

Edited June 7, 2018 by The God Emperor of Mankind

[Lycus]

I bet it was at this very moment that you realized you should have never bought Battlefield or downloaded 20+ GB of War Thunder and World of Warships. Lmao

@durmij @Mitsuru

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

20 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I single highhandedly built the #1AA ingame nearly entirely by myself from scratch XD. I built the largest econ the game had ever seen with my programs And you should try to learn to understand an argument before you post, entertaining multiple views is key to any sort of successful debate or else you'll keep on being so confused IMO. Just because you dont understand something, does not mean it does not make sense, being human is hard.

I'm going to interrupt your joyus measuring of your male genitals here with a gentle reminder that your testicles are severely lacking in size, as evidence by a record of fleeing from any war which had the risk of notable harm to you, and that even if they were not, that you not only overstate your size but also imply any skill at all is present, both of which can be disproven by you're already on-the-death-bed alliance now being forced to suffer on life support instead of having the dignity of a proper euthanasia.

One could only hope TKR's militarization is right such cruelty, but it's probably not.

 

Otherwise, this entire scenario is frankly quite simple. The Afrika Corps were an expeditionary force that the allies, at least, considered on the status of 'elite' thanks to it's commander, Erwin Rommel. While it is a popular stay of pop culture to believe that Rommel was "Not a bad guy", and was infact himself not a Nazi, and simply trying to defend his country, does not have any historical backing whatsoever. While he certainly may have wanted to protect his nation, this completely ignores that he is in service to a paranoid, incompetent and impotent fool, and that being an officer in the German Military under Nazi rule typically meant you yourself were a Nazi. Even if by some chance you're just an oberleutnant and got by without official party membership, there is absolutely no way in hell you are becoming a Field Marshall without it. It's just not happening. Of course, even if it were, now you have to ask why a man considered a competent general who wanted to protect his nation and vehemently disliked Hitler's genocidal tendencies, didn't think that maybe an army loyal to its commander above all (a typical effect of being 'not shit' as a military leader) would not be of great benefit in, perhaps, say, killing the man?

Tack on that Japan isn't as inherently 'Anti Nazi' as the West by any stretch of the imagination and we have a case of "Well, what did you expect", when making an alliance on game on the internet of all things, named after an elite expeditionary force of the Third Reich who was led by a man that was an incompetent coward at best and thus allowed the deaths of millions by inaction, or was himself a Nazi, celebrating it openly at parties at worst. Really, i'm not sure what you expected here, but you seem surprised and outraged, and it's simply beyond me as to why. 

Seriously. Did.... anybody, other than this guy ^ expect anything different? The best part is that the detractors aren't wrong, at least in the sense that this alliance is demonstrably served with what could be more subtle Nazi references, regardless of what those who inhabit it actually think of said ideology.

The other guy, uh. He's just annoying, don't know what to tell you. This is another case of "Well, what did you expect", but this time it's one of those newfangled leftists who would probably call me alt-right if i gave them 3 seconds to speak openly. C'est la vie. 

[durmij]

23 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

"You used ad hominem for your logic so you lose even though I admit I used ad hominem too but you were worse so you lose".

 

So, that section was there to highlight the differences in our fallacies. His entire argument hinges on him being smarter than everyone else and the only adult, where as I laid out arguments then called him a shitty player. There is a huge functional difference there.

[Hodor]

I mean, I'm not calling y'all Nazis, but it's hard to imagine an instance where this doesn't at least open you up to that suspicion...

If you really liked the military hardware of the Nazi regime, there are far better ways to express that in role playing form.

[Zaksaeling]

3 hours ago, King Dabs said:

Also

Is this a wild Zak being active?

I was off for awhile, but I'm back bb ❤️

[Aksel]

I dislike anime, reminds me of those weird people in high school...I also don't care about the Nazi stuff, people literally just need to argue over everything. We are now arguing over how a cartoon hurts people bc tits and Nazis. 

Good luck booby anime alliance. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Mad Max

[Odin]

Lots of SJW filth and basement crybabies posting here. 

It's a fine theme, good luck.

[Thalmor]

Congrats on forming! Ignore the detractors, they're just a vocal minority. Most people in this game aren't really going to give a shit about the theme; especially because anime girls are the main focus and not any political message or ideology.

[Sans]

Its a weeb-German themed alliance. We get what a lot of folks are concerned about,  but that is not what this is. Thats it. You may think differently, fine, I'm not the thought police, but for clarification that is not the intention for this alliance. I'm sure there are plenty of more blatant and purposeful instances out there that warrant closer scrutinization than this. So please step off. 

 

That anime girl look pretty cute. I approve. 

Wish you guys luck. 

[Buorhann]

1 hour ago, Hodor said:

I mean, I'm not calling y'all Nazis, but it's hard to imagine an instance where this doesn't at least open you up to that suspicion...

If you really liked the military hardware of the Nazi regime, there are far better ways to express that in role playing form.

When I first saw the alliance, I knew reactions like this would happen, but if @Prefonteen says it was looked into ahead of time by Alex's rules, it's alright with me.