Rose Treaty Annoucement

[Dynamic]

It's been a few months now and I am really enjoying the dynamics and challenges being the leader of Rose has brought. After settling in, we've decided to make a slight turn on our FA journey. Rose values all of our treaties, and our allies play a role in shaping the future of our alliances. At this moment, Rose has decide to focus in on our current allies, and seek to take new risks and meddle in uncharted territory.

Part of this process is evaluating our old ties and making sure we can both be beneficial to each other. Today, Rose will be cutting ties with Nuke Bloc, by ending our ties with the World Task Force. It's been an honor to fight and work alongside them during my time as leader, and there is so much history in our relationship. The original treaty was signed in 2015, long before many of our members (including myself) were even a part of the picture.

With our 72-hour notice provided on Sunday, the treaty has been cancelled at the time of posting. We wish them the best of luck going forward.

 

Signed for Rose,

Sovereign, Dynamic

Regent, J.A. Goldington

Vizer of State, Mhearl

Vizer of State, Ameyuri

 

tl;dr - Rose cancels our treaty with World Task Force, effectively ending a long relationship between Rose and NB.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Dynamic

[Auctor]

Bold move. The ball is in your court, whomever this could have possibly affected.

[Betulius]

Congratulations to Rose, condolences to Rose

[Darth Revan]

Congratulations Abbas  Rose

Edited May 31, 2018 by Darth Revan

[Roq]

By the name of this article, I was honestly hoping that you would be getting a treaty. I didn't think you guys had that much, but you guys seem like getting rid of the few Treaties you have. 

[Kurdanak]

It's been a good run, WTF. It's unfortunate but not unexpected that we grew apart. Thank you for the years of friendship.

[Betulius]

8 minutes ago, Citrustrack said:

By the name of this article, I was honestly hoping that you would be getting a treaty. I didn't think you guys had that much, but you guys seem like getting rid of the few Treaties you have. 

It's the only way Dynamic(tm) can keep his name

[Roq]

Just now, Betulius said:

It's the only way Dynamic(tm) can keep his name

Seems like the proper reason.

[KillzBob]

Striking NB one by one i like

[Guest Epi]

593

Edited February 16, 2021 by Epi

[Trajan]

Best wishes and good luck to both alliances.

[Placentica]

On 5/30/2018 at 9:33 PM, Dynamic said:

We are going to break-up with WTF before they break-up with us so we don't look like the terrible allies we were to WTF.....and if we are going to bring up Nuke Bloc, despite not be allied to anyone else in NB ....we were also terrible allies to Fark and Alpha, so in the future maybe we'll sign NK and then not honor a treaty with them so we can make it a "perfect" 4 for 4.

You constantly have this mentality that it makes you look less worse if you cancel on people first. I really hope no one is buying that. Nor did you have any reason to cancel WTF here, who has been nothing but an amazing ally to you while you have been a terrible one to WTF. 

I have no doubts that TCW/EMC sphere okay'ed it's attack on WTF with you prior.  Way to backstab your former ally.  I hope in the future someone treats you in the same way.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Placentica
edit: inb4 unoriginal salt memes

[Sketchy]

2 minutes ago, Placentica said:

You constantly have this mentality that it makes you look less worse if you cancel on people first. I really hope no one is buying that. Nor did you have any reason to cancel WTF here, who has been nothing but an amazing ally to you while you have been a terrible one to WTF. 

I have no doubts that TCW/EMC sphere okay'ed it's attack on WTF with you prior.  Way to backstab your former ally.  I hope in the future someone treats you in the same way.

[Buorhann]

20 minutes ago, Placentica said:

You constantly have this mentality that it makes you look less worse if you cancel on people first. I really hope no one is buying that. Nor did you have any reason to cancel WTF here, who has been nothing but an amazing ally to you while you have been a terrible one to WTF. 

I have no doubts that TCW/EMC sphere okay'ed it's attack on WTF with you prior.  Way to backstab your former ally.  I hope in the future someone treats you in the same way.

Rose was fully involved with IQ.  The breakup of the treaty was after the war was done (A month or so after).  You're better off targeting alliances that weren't involved in any war and yet still had ties to Nuke Bloc but decided to not get involved.

[Placentica]

27 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Rose was fully involved with IQ.  The breakup of the treaty was after the war was done (A month or so after).  You're better off targeting alliances that weren't involved in any war and yet still had ties to Nuke Bloc but decided to not get involved.

I mean you can just spit it out and say Stratagem, now TRF.  They aren't any better, agreed.  And a few others, some of which might surprise you. 

Evidence that Rose was a terrible ally 1) they did have plenty of upper tier nations not involved and 2) there is no way that EMC moves without getting some level of assurances. TKR/Guardian are not stupid, they got those before rolling out 3) even without military intervention there are many other ways they could've helped WTF, but chose not.

Here's to hoping Rose doesn't treat you the same KT/TGH.....when whatever the current chest puffing resolves itself or not.

[Buorhann]

9 minutes ago, Placentica said:

I mean you can just spit it out and say Stratagem, now TRF.  They aren't any better, agreed.  And a few others, some of which might surprise you. 

Evidence that Rose was a terrible ally 1) they did have plenty of upper tier nations not involved and 2) there is no way that EMC moves without getting some level of assurances. TKR/Guardian are not stupid, they got those before rolling out 3) even without military intervention there are many other ways they could've helped WTF, but chose not.

Here's to hoping Rose doesn't treat you the same KT/TGH.....when whatever the current chest puffing resolves itself or not.

TKR was rumored to be a counter to Rose, if Rose did indeed split from the war with IQ and counter on behalf of Nuke Bloc against Guardian/tCW.  They were being baited, but they were also very occupied and distracted.

Would you fight a two front war between the biggest member count alliances (TKR/BK/NPO)?

Granted it would've been amusing to see Guardian/TKR/GOB/tCW fight alongside with IQ + Friends.

You're right though, those fighting Nuke Bloc weren't stupid.  They hit at the right time while everybody was occupied.  Forcing allies of allies to make a decision.  Strategically, it was good, can't deny it.  PR wise, I don't know if it was the best of moves, but that all depends how allies of Nuke Bloc feel during that time, honestly.  I know how I would feel personally if I was stuck in that situation.

Not quite sure about #3.  If you're thinking Spy Ops, those were regularly being used to counter BK's efforts, as Rose and TGH were the only ones that had a decent number of Spies left, iirc.

 

Rose is their own.  KT/TGH are admittedly on their own here.  We don't expect them to intervene or assist us in any thing (Although if there was an offer, we certainly wouldn't turn it down).

In any case, while I can't officially speak on Rose's behalf, if I was in their situation - I'd acknowledge that WTF were good allies, but I'd also point out that we've waited till well after the war before we began any separation.  However, I'm not aware of any of Rose's plans or what the internal situation was between those two allies.  If an alliance was to cut ties with me, I'd be glad it'd be during a time of peace and after some time of a war (If one had kicked off).

Edited June 5, 2018 by Buorhann

[Apeman]

4 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

TKR was rumored to be a counter to Rose, if Rose did indeed split from the war with IQ and counter on behalf of Nuke Bloc against Guardian/tCW.  They were being baited, but they were also very occupied and distracted.

Would you fight a two front war between the biggest member count alliances (TKR/BK/NPO)?

Granted it would've been amusing to see Guardian/TKR/GOB/tCW fight alongside with IQ + Friends.

You're right though, those fighting Nuke Bloc weren't stupid.  They hit at the right time while everybody was occupied.  Forcing allies of allies to make a decision.  Strategically, it was good, can't deny it.  PR wise, I don't know if it was the best of moves, but that all depends how allies of Nuke Bloc feel during that time, honestly.  I know how I would feel personally if I was stuck in that situation.

Not quite sure about #3.  If you're thinking Spy Ops, those were regularly being used to counter BK's efforts, as Rose and TGH were the only ones that had a decent number of Spies left, iirc.

 

Rose is their own.  KT/TGH are admittedly on their own here.  We don't expect them to intervene or assist us in any thing (Although if there was an offer, we certainly wouldn't turn it down).

In any case, while I can't officially speak on Rose's behalf, if I was in their situation - I'd acknowledge that WTF were good allies, but I'd also point out that we've waited till well after the war before we began any separation.  However, I'm not aware of any of Rose's plans or what the internal situation was between those two allies.  If an alliance was to cut ties with me, I'd be glad it'd be during a time of peace and after some time of a war (If one had kicked off).

Yeah at least it was during peace months after their requirement was actually required. I'd say the inactive behavior speaks louder than the timing of said treaty cancellations. Who am I to criticize tho? The reason we were involved at all was because an ally was attacked and without thinking of timing or really anything back door, we did exactly what was written. Countered those punk ass !@#$es. But since the standard few months have come to pass it's all good they wanna back out from a treaty they never acted on. 

[Buorhann]

I wouldn't be surprised if this sticks around for awhile, even after the treaty cancellation.  It's not a good situation to get in, and if an alliance was willing to put you in between a rock and a hard place, whats to keep them from doing it again?

[durmij]

8 minutes ago, Placentica said:

I mean you can just spit it out and say Stratagem, now TRF.  They aren't any better, agreed.  And a few others, some of which might surprise you. 

So, since I'm tired of hearing this, and I'm now hearing it from multiple angles, Fark waved us off. We actually had a video made and were gearing up, but Fark told us not to get involved. The reasoning was twofold.

1. It was a Nukebloc war, and we were not a Nukebloc alliance. We signed Fark because they're cool and we like each other. We weren't trying to be baby NB.

2. We would have got rolled into oblivion going after TKR. We would have accomplished nothing and got ourselves beat to shit in the process.

Funny thing is, you agreed to this logic at the time, and you told Queen not to come in to a lost war. Funnier thing, we no longer have those messages because you appear to have blocked Queen on discord. Isn't it all just so funny?

So can you two can it finally? Satisfied?

[Sketchy]

12 minutes ago, Apeman said:

Yeah at least it was during peace months after their requirement was actually required. I'd say the inactive behavior speaks louder than the timing of said treaty cancellations. Who am I to criticize tho? The reason we were involved at all was because an ally was attacked and without thinking of timing or really anything back door, we did exactly what was written. Countered those punk ass !@#$es. But since the standard few months have come to pass it's all good they wanna back out from a treaty they never acted on. 

Says the guy who plotted to hit Roses protectorate alongside Hogwarts, I assume without telling your best buddy WTF, then betraying your own ally TKR and helping to hide that alliance inside your own to presumably protect your complicity in the plan.

Not only that, but that very situation was part of the CB TKR used to go after nuke bloc in the first place. So good job getting all your allies rolled and blaming it on Rose who was already in the middle of a larger conflict, and chose not to throw all their other allies under the bus by splitting their focus (they had multiple MD allies in the conflict), to defend your treacherous ass on an OD treaty. 

Thats not even pointing out the obvious case that it was an OD treaty, and WTF never defended Rose when they were rolled in NPO's first time, nor helped them in Silent War.

[Apeman]

Nk didn't plot with anyone about anything. Tkr denied that being a reason, but this does make it even more of a reason considering tkr didn't iniial strike anyone. In fact NK wasn't even an iniial target. So with that said please describe again why rose coward to the might of tkr when their direct ally was hit?  Nk was there, where were yout oblogations? I don't expect you to answer any questions just throw shade at me. 

 

Psst partisan no matter where he ruled has and always be a better ally the either tkr or rose. 

 

I think it's important to say that treaty ties can also include a peaceful solution or maybe even a hey don't hit those guys convo would've helped.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Apeman
Add

[Kurdanak]

This has be rehashed multiple times with IQ and company, but all the treaty lawyering is really quite irrelevant to the matter at hand here. I understand that Rose and WTF discussed the situation during our wars and came to an agreed upon conclusion. Debating that now is redundant.

While I personally like WTF a lot and greatly appreciate our history together, I also find it daft to say that there was no reason to cancel this treaty. Rose has gone through two major structural and leadership changes over the time that we've been allied. The original proponents of our treaty are long gone and it's honestly ridiculous to hold the opinion that one should not cancel a treaty between two alliances that have simply grown apart over the years. 

WTF understands that, as well, and we wished each other the best. The fact of the matter is, Placentica, you're trying to make an issue where there really isn't one. 

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

I honestly can't understand why Rose ever treatied any of NB to begin with. This just based on the attitude of you all. Here you are, dragging an ex-ally's name through the mud, because they had the audacity not to protect you from TKR of all things, while fully committing to fighting IQ. Something which, of course, Nuclear Knights for example, was only willing to do with a few one-off raids.

Sorry boys but somebody has to say this. You talk like Rose just sat there and watched their brand new Maserati slide off a cliff and didn't move mountains to stop it, despite being held at gunpoint at mobsters. What actually happened, is that a random Yugo slid off the cliff, while aforementioned mobsters ended up in a gunfight. Face it, you're just not worth even a fractal iota of what you think are, the only people who value you at more than a penny are yourselves, and nobody is, nor should change their minds from that anytime soon.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Lairah

[Kurdanak]

It's worth noting, just as an FYI for those newer here, that Rose was allied to WTF long before NB ever existed. Which is evidence to the divergent political paths that support it being past time to remove official ties (not to say that politics are the only factor to consider, but I already covered the other factors in my above post).

Edited June 5, 2018 by Kurdanak

[J.A.Goldington]

Oof, I haven’t used my forum account in almost 3 years but I feel like it’s time I break out of my shell considering I am the FA Head and Co Lead of Rose.

I would like to clear the air of any argument or confusion about us ending the treaty with WTF. This was decided because Dynamic and myself were reviewing treaties that were going to expire and WTF was up next, he asked if we should automatically propose another treaty and I advised that we send them a message about it and see where it goes. We sent a message and a week had passed, no response. I talked with some older members that had been in gov previously in Rose about WTF since I was only a member for almost 4 years in Rose. I was told that relations with WTF were great but both alliances had been growing apart and weren’t as communicative as before, which had been shown recently to be following this trend. So I advised Dynamic to send WTF a 72 hour notice that was will be cancelling the treaty and not renewing due to this trend of growing apart, different agendas and ideals, and lack of communication between our alliances. We only wish the best of luck to WTF and their future endeavors. We made a forum post in honor to our long history with WTF, not to cause an issue.

To the nay sayers who like to slander Rose’s reputation by saying we didn’t come to WTF’s aid when TKR hit, don’t speak for other alliances you’re not a part of. We talked with WTF and agreed that Rose could not help in their situation due to us leading the front in the war against IQ. I don’t know any alliance that can fight off Acadia, NPO, BK, and Cornerstone and then be called a terrible ally because they couldn’t fight off TKR and tCW as well. I apologize to Nuke Bloc that they were struck at an inopportune time, and applaud TKR for strategically striking an alliance while their allies were tied.

Lastly, don’t play the victim card apeman because you didn’t like getting rolled, just like when you struck Ockey from Oblivion, a Rose protectorate, then tried to blame Rose whenever we responded before the turn changed because you didn’t want to be rolled. You misrepresent Nuke bloc with your actions and embarrass Nuclear Knights with your tongue. You reap what you sow, so stop playing the victim card and using Rose as a scapegoat for your incompetence and start by helping your alliance in a more positive way.

Edited June 5, 2018 by J.A.Goldington
Grammar mistakes :P