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Dubayoo's $1Billion KofC Giveaway


Dubayoo
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7 hours ago, Lordship said:

 

Edit: read ardent atheist so I'm still confused but I guess it makes more sense! lol

Edit x2: Sorry @Dubayoo, while I can respect your cause as we are of very similar faith, I am a Christian so gonna have to pass on this one! Good luck with it though :P

Edit x3: Nvm, not worth arguing with people online about religion lol

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Edited by durmij
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11 hours ago, Gabranth said:

Unfortunately, the KofC doesn't have a chapter in my nation. Can the offer be extended to any member of the International Alliance of Catholic Knights? or is the offer exclusive to the KofC?

Yea, sure. Just prove to me you're a member of the corresponding order and you can qualify.

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Hey @Olive Penderghast and@Honey Monster quick question. Does this break the rules on exchanging real life currency for in game items? While OP isn't getting money, an institution of his choosing is. Seems like a yes to me, but there is some nuance here.

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2 hours ago, Hodor said:

I was raised Catholic and know much about KoC, you seem to have just written my submission off as purely a joke, but some investigation would show I am promoting a group that expects character without prerequisite such as being a Christian Male.

See below:

 

From the website I posted:

TENETS

THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS.

  • One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
  • The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
  • One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
  • The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
  • Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
  • People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and remediate any harm that may have been caused.
  • Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

 

ABOUT US

The mission of The Satanic Temple is to encourage benevolence and empathy among all people, reject tyrannical authority, advocate practical common sense and justice, and be directed by the human conscience to undertake noble pursuits guided by the individual will. Politically aware, Civic-minded Satanists and allies in The Satanic Temple have publicly opposed The Westboro Baptist Church, advocated on behalf of children in public school to abolish corporal punishment, applied for equal representation where religious monuments are placed on public property, provided religious exemption and legal protection against laws that unscientifically restrict women's reproductive autonomy, exposed fraudulent harmful pseudo-scientific practitioners and claims in mental health care, and applied to hold clubs along side other religious after school clubs in schools besieged by proselytizing organizations.

 

Those tenets don't expect character.

Compassion and empathy are about making people comfortable instead of supporting long-term well-being, and synthesizing that with reason yields practicality, not principle. Practicality is subjective, so all you have there is an arbitrary opinion.

The struggle for justice forsakes victims after fair rulings. Laws and institutions are only bad when they're corrupt. We shouldn't throw them out altogether.

Inviolable bodies seems right on the surface, but that tolerates apathy both in industrial laziness as well as civic responsibility negligence.

The freedom to offend is a contradiction. Offense violates freedom. That's why we expect good manners in society.

Scientific beliefs treat human nature as if it's predetermined whereas character requires free will, and this is something Catholics debate against other Protestant Christians as well when it comes to the treatment of callings, grace, and good works.

Yes, people are fallible, but part of responsible living includes not taking on responsibilities beyond your capability. Merely doing your best isn't always enough. 

While guiding principles are nice in putting spirit first, that's a very vague claim that requires clarification. Hence, we have dogmas to clarify it that have gone through the scholastic process of dialectic consensus construction.

Authority is not automatically bad. It can be, but only if it plays favorites on a passive-aggressive basis which is why authority must not be based on empathy.

Practical common sense is again subjective. That puts pluralism before universalism.

The individual will is the foundation of a good society, but it's only the foundation. We must also have a fraternal spirit of cooperative teamwork that is not materially grounded in order to appreciate the many-to-many connections between cause and effect rather than simply learning from experience about previous connections and extrapolating them.

Corporal punishment is not automatically bad. People who behave disrespectfully and learn from experience about facts and relate with what they feel must be physically hit in order to learn from experience a fact which feels badly that they don't relate with. If they're not, then they learn from experience that they can get away with disrespecting others.

Equal representation of religious monuments is not always justified as in the case of mockeries that don't truly represent the spirit of faith as well as in the case of pagans which by their mere display automatically oppress fellow cultures. Catholic monuments are not culturally biased due to their intrinsically universal nature which is not biased towards a specific form of grace.

"Women's reproductive autonomy" is just a guise for being pro-choice. Pro-choice positions must be opposed just like how society uses police against hostage takers. Hostages do not deserve to be killed just because they don't behave functionally in the opinion of their takers. It is also nobody's obligation to prove their functionality to others before being treated with respect. That's no different from slavery.

On the side, 10 times more abortions have been had than Jews killed in the Holocaust. Nazis were once thought to be the epitome of evil, but the pro-choice movement has vastly outperformed them. Calling its advocates "Feminazis" is an understatement for how evil they are.

Mental health care is highly problematic due to its practical and empirical focus. It has no consideration for how victims of abuse are defined from violations of principle. Instead of identifying abusers and punishing them accordingly, it simply focuses on treating the victim which misdiagnoses mental problems when people are really just abused by others with attitude problems. It also ignores how abuse is often not recorded, expecting victims to pretend they were never abused and driving them mad in the process behind the threat of being accused of delusions simply due to a lack of evidence.

In sum, your other organization has no idea what it's talking about when it comes to character.

23 minutes ago, durmij said:

Hey @Olive Penderghast and@Honey Monster quick question. Does this break the rules on exchanging real life currency for in game items? While OP isn't getting money, an institution of his choosing is. Seems like a yes to me, but there is some nuance here.

Not quite.

Joining the order itself is an exchange of your dues for the order's services.

I'm only requesting people join the order to qualify for the giveaway. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

Not quite.

Joining the order itself is an exchange of your dues for the order's services.

I'm only requesting people join the order to qualify for the giveaway. 

The end result is still the same, you get IRL money for a purpose you want, they get in game resources.

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1 minute ago, durmij said:

The end result is still the same, you get IRL money for a purpose you want, they get in game resources.

People get in game resources if they write a paper which has no real life purpose. RL money is transacted for joining the order one way or another. It's the process, not the result, that counts.

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3 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

People get in game resources if they write a paper which has no real life purpose. RL money is transacted for joining the order one way or another. It's the process, not the result, that counts.

So if I write the paper and don't pay to join the order, I can have resources?

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1 minute ago, durmij said:

So if I write the paper and don't pay to join the order, I can have resources?

If you find someone else who joins the order and someone agrees to have you help write the paper, you can split it with someone as you two see fit.

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2 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

If you find someone else who joins the order and someone agrees to have you help write the paper, you can split it with someone as you two see fit.

So, it is impossible to get the resources without someone joining the order, and impossible to join the order without someone paying?

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5 minutes ago, durmij said:

So, it is impossible to get the resources without someone joining the order, and impossible to join the order without someone paying?

Whether it's impossible or not is irrelevant.

The point is joining the order is necessary to qualify, but insufficient by itself, to get a prize.

I've very deliberately designed the giveaway this way since I've no interest in paying people to join the order. Quality comes before quantity.

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4 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

Whether it's impossible or not is irrelevant.

The point is joining the order is necessary to qualify, but insufficient by itself, to get a prize.

I've very deliberately designed the giveaway this way since I've no interest in paying people to join the order. Quality comes before quantity.

Answer the question. Can you win the ingame resources without expending IRL money?

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1 minute ago, Dubayoo said:

The question's been answered and shown how you're asking about irrelevant points.

So we agree that IRL money is being exchanged for ingame resources, however roundabout the path may be? Cool. Enjoy your thread.

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No we don't agree.

The fact is you can join the order whether you're participating here or not. Joining the order yields its own benefits.

This giveaway simply acknowledges the order as a theme behind which an additional effort can be made to get a prize.

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32 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

Those tenets don't expect character.

Compassion and empathy are about making people comfortable instead of supporting long-term well-being, and synthesizing that with reason yields practicality, not principle. Practicality is subjective, so all you have there is an arbitrary opinion.

The struggle for justice forsakes victims after fair rulings. Laws and institutions are only bad when they're corrupt. We shouldn't throw them out altogether.

Inviolable bodies seems right on the surface, but that tolerates apathy both in industrial laziness as well as civic responsibility negligence.

The freedom to offend is a contradiction. Offense violates freedom. That's why we expect good manners in society.

Scientific beliefs treat human nature as if it's predetermined whereas character requires free will, and this is something Catholics debate against other Protestant Christians as well when it comes to the treatment of callings, grace, and good works.

Yes, people are fallible, but part of responsible living includes not taking on responsibilities beyond your capability. Merely doing your best isn't always enough. 

While guiding principles are nice in putting spirit first, that's a very vague claim that requires clarification. Hence, we have dogmas to clarify it that have gone through the scholastic process of dialectic consensus construction.

Authority is not automatically bad. It can be, but only if it plays favorites on a passive-aggressive basis which is why authority must not be based on empathy.

Practical common sense is again subjective. That puts pluralism before universalism.

The individual will is the foundation of a good society, but it's only the foundation. We must also have a fraternal spirit of cooperative teamwork that is not materially grounded in order to appreciate the many-to-many connections between cause and effect rather than simply learning from experience about previous connections and extrapolating them.

Corporal punishment is not automatically bad. People who behave disrespectfully and learn from experience about facts and relate with what they feel must be physically hit in order to learn from experience a fact which feels badly that they don't relate with. If they're not, then they learn from experience that they can get away with disrespecting others.

Equal representation of religious monuments is not always justified as in the case of mockeries that don't truly represent the spirit of faith as well as in the case of pagans which by their mere display automatically oppress fellow cultures. Catholic monuments are not culturally biased due to their intrinsically universal nature which is not biased towards a specific form of grace.

"Women's reproductive autonomy" is just a guise for being pro-choice. Pro-choice positions must be opposed just like how society uses police against hostage takers. Hostages do not deserve to be killed just because they don't behave functionally in the opinion of their takers. It is also nobody's obligation to prove their functionality to others before being treated with respect. That's no different from slavery.

On the side, 10 times more abortions have been had than Jews killed in the Holocaust. Nazis were once thought to be the epitome of evil, but the pro-choice movement has vastly outperformed them. Calling its advocates "Feminazis" is an understatement for how evil they are.

Mental health care is highly problematic due to its practical and empirical focus. It has no consideration for how victims of abuse are defined from violations of principle. Instead of identifying abusers and punishing them accordingly, it simply focuses on treating the victim which misdiagnoses mental problems when people are really just abused by others with attitude problems. It also ignores how abuse is often not recorded, expecting victims to pretend they were never abused and driving them mad in the process behind the threat of being accused of delusions simply due to a lack of evidence.

In sum, your other organization has no idea what it's talking about when it comes to character.

There is A LOT to unpack here but your opinions on the definition of freedom as having constraints, corporal punishment being acceptable, and preferential treatment for religion are incredibly misinformed and dangerous. These are the foundations of a theocracy not a fully free democracy.

You are twisting yourself to make sure you are on the right side, but every counter argument you made here is subjective on its face. I don't accept the Satanic Temple's tenets or mission as objective and stemming from infallible truth. I accept that with more information those same tenets and mission can be found incorrect and rectified, an option almost entirely unavailable to yourself and the KoC based on the nature of dogma.

 

"Catholic monuments are not culturally biased due to their intrinsically universal nature which is not biased towards a specific form of grace."

"Equal representation of religious monuments is not always justified as in the case of mockeries that don't truly represent the spirit of faith as well as in the case of pagans which by their mere display automatically oppress fellow cultures."

"They (catholic missionaries) recognize pagan faiths as just another form of culture to be adapted and refined."

Do you not see the blatant contradiction in these statements?

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1 minute ago, Hodor said:

Do you not see the blatant contradiction in these statements?

He doesn't see how requiring people to join an order with a membership fee to win a prize is exchanging IRL goods for ingame ones, so the answer is probably no.

Also, apparently this is Inst so any further engagement is probably a waste of time. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hodor said:

There is A LOT to unpack here but your opinions on the definition of freedom as having constraints, corporal punishment being acceptable, and preferential treatment for religion are incredibly misinformed and dangerous. These are the foundations of a theocracy not a fully free democracy.

You are twisting yourself to make sure you are on the right side, but every counter argument you made here is subjective on its face. I don't accept the Satanic Temple's tenets or mission as objective and stemming from infallible truth. I accept that with more information those same tenets and mission can be found incorrect and rectified, an option almost entirely unavailable to yourself and the KoC based on the nature of dogma.

 

"Catholic monuments are not culturally biased due to their intrinsically universal nature which is not biased towards a specific form of grace."

"Equal representation of religious monuments is not always justified as in the case of mockeries that don't truly represent the spirit of faith as well as in the case of pagans which by their mere display automatically oppress fellow cultures."

"They (catholic missionaries) recognize pagan faiths as just another form of culture to be adapted and refined."

Do you not see the blatant contradiction in these statements?

You're assuming fully free democracy is good. We don't need to live in a society where mob justice or tyranny of the majority compels people to go along with the flow.

This is what makes the Catholic Church a good institution. Yes, it votes for the Papacy through the conclave, but it's grounded in dogmatic tradition via scholasticism. People have reasoned out concepts over the ages to share their wisdom into the perpetual future. It is not a tyrannical dictatorship where we follow an authority's lead just because an authority says so. We follow leadership because leadership is virtuous.

If anything's dangerous, it's exposing innocent people to being abused because criminals aren't warned via the potential for punishment. That's like being a shepherd who doesn't protect the flock from wolves.

The statements are not contradictory either. If pagans wish to display their monuments on private grounds, that's fine. We just need to make sure their monuments don't contradict each other. In contrast, the universal and international base of Catholicism acknowledges the many ways of life people can have.

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Alright boss. Just remember denying the obvious doesn't heal cognitive dissonance.

This is what scholasticism emphasizes as well - the construction of consensus. Walking away just because you disagree ends up getting you ostracized beyond the conversation at hand. 

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18 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

Alright boss. Just remember denying the obvious doesn't heal cognitive dissonance.

This is what scholasticism emphasizes as well - the construction of consensus. Walking away just because you disagree ends up getting you ostracized beyond the conversation at hand. 

" it's grounded in dogmatic tradition via scholasticism. People have reasoned out concepts over the ages to share their wisdom into the perpetual future."

"...synthesizing that with reason yields practicality, not principle. Practicality is subjective, so all you have there is an arbitrary opinion."

"Just remember denying the obvious doesn't heal cognitive dissonance."

tenor.gif?itemid=8419985

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14 minutes ago, Hodor said:

" it's grounded in dogmatic tradition via scholasticism. People have reasoned out concepts over the ages to share their wisdom into the perpetual future."

"...synthesizing that with reason yields practicality, not principle. Practicality is subjective, so all you have there is an arbitrary opinion."

"Just remember denying the obvious doesn't heal cognitive dissonance."

tenor.gif?itemid=8419985

It's going to be so nice when he actually goes, eh?

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2 hours ago, Hodor said:

" it's grounded in dogmatic tradition via scholasticism. People have reasoned out concepts over the ages to share their wisdom into the perpetual future."

"...synthesizing that with reason yields practicality, not principle. Practicality is subjective, so all you have there is an arbitrary opinion."

"Just remember denying the obvious doesn't heal cognitive dissonance."

tenor.gif?itemid=8419985

You really aren't familiar with scholastic tradition are you?

Dogmas talk about faith before reason, yes, but the question has to do with how to be faithful.

That is something which has to be reasoned out. Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretation_of_the_Bible

Scripture's context can be interpreted many ways when it comes to proper faithfulness.

If you think literalism is good enough without institutional wisdom, that makes you a Protestant, not a Catholic.

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16 hours ago, Gabranth said:

Unfortunately, the KofC doesn't have a chapter in my nation. Can the offer be extended to any member of the International Alliance of Catholic Knights? or is the offer exclusive to the KofC?

Don't worry, you're not the only person left out. I, and anyone else with the pleasure of being born XX are also rather screwed on this occasion. Such is life, instead of worrying, please, join us for tea.

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