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Alex

Removing Beige or Severely Nerfing It

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I am sick of people toeing the line of war slot filling rules due to not wanting to Beige or being intentionally Beiged, and me having to moderate it. I am throwing this out here for suggestions, either Beige needs to be removed or nerfed, there can't be an incentive to "want to be beiged" or for real attackers to not want to Beige.

So either I am going to seriously increase the damage or remove Beige time from winning wars if someone doesn't have a better solution.

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3 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I was going to toss out that the beige timer should have a limit of say 5-6 days, and not 16 days like it is now for losing all 8 active wars.  But as that would be extremely self serving to my current situation, I was going to wait till after our war ended to propose it.   But because of daily military purchase limits, a losing nation needs to have some sort of attack free time to reload, or if you lose a war in the first round, you are basically done with out the beige timer.

That being said, if you do any root cause analysis here i think you will see the beige mechanic isn't your issue, I think it probably goes all the way back to the way your war mechanics work.  Increasing the damage or removing beige all together is probably going to cause those freak outs from the player base that seem to happen every time you make a change like this.

I was about to write the same things

I also think that a player should be able to go out of beige at any moment

 

Idk if it makes sense but maybe being beiged cause losing a random improvement other than infra? Or maybe during beige time there's no resource production?

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2 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

But because of daily military purchase limits, a losing nation needs to have some sort of attack free time to reload, or if you lose a war in the first round, you are basically done with out the beige timer.

That's what I initially thought how he meant it. But I think what he means is that if you get beiged and win a war while you are in beige, then your beige time is decreased.

I think the issue is players having friends from other AAs declare on them, get them down to 10~14 resistance and then to declare wars on other nations and get beiged 1-2 minutes after declaring. That way, they can't get countered anymore. Now say your beige time is now 6 days after doing such a thing and you win a war against one of the people you've declared on shortly before beiging, then your beige time gets decreased for every victory and you can get countered again.

Unless that's not what Alex meant this in which case I haven't said anything.

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1 hour ago, ϟħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™ said:

10% of infra if beiged

beige is only induced if you have 3 defensive wars only, being on offense doesn't beige you. Sucks to have a crappy blitz/get countered.

 

Eliminating the possibility of Beige time for an offensive war gone wrong would solve some of the moderation issues I'm running into, and does seem reasonably fair to me. This might be a simple and easy fix for the issue.

2 hours ago, Horsecock said:

Only a month ago you severely reduced the damage and loot of beiges, and now this?

A month ago the issue was that war was too costly, prohibiting war. Now the issue is that people are rampantly war slot filling to get Beiged.

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A possible solution could be to reduce beige timer to 1 day and only receive beige from defensive wars. 

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2 hours ago, LeotheGreat said:

A possible solution could be to reduce beige timer to 1 day and only receive beige from defensive wars. 

Not enough time to rebuild

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3 minutes ago, Micchan said:

Not enough time to rebuild

Three days is a solid amount a time, I guess a counter could be 1 day for all wars capping at 4-5 days, with a new beige just refreshing that timer.

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since the entire point of the beige mechanic is to give you rebuild time during a losing war, and the reason people want to get beiged is to avoid getting those slots filled, what if along with 10% of infra destroyed, you lose 10% of improvs (excluding powerplants?), this would encourage beiging, and make people not want to get beiged. 

Obviously, the numbers here are to admin discretion.

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21 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Second, like earlier, you can't keep altering your stance on the matter based on the number of reports.  You initially set the precedent that as long as damage was done, it's not war slot filling.  If people are being beiged, that literally fits the rule to what you've set in months past regarding the issue.

Third, you have to expect players to come up with creative ways to either find loopholes in the ruling or expand on new strategic moves.

Not even loopholes, people are just figuring out effective ways to play the game within the rules that define the game, just like all players do and have always done in any game. In a good game design, you will see different strategies being applied depending on the situation the specific subset of players are in, and even on personal preference.

What this thread seems to be a response to is a number of "reports" from one side in the war trying to convince the dev to change the game is such a way to make only one strategy, their strategy, the most powerful one. It's appallingly transparent.

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So 10 percent of zero is? Why not fix a real problem like no food only causing 1/3 less income. There is harsher penalties for no power then no food. That is dumb

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@Alex

  1. Make wars expire on a 3 day timer.
  2. Rather than have 100% resistance, and knock it down to 0%, just track resistance damage.
  3. The winner is the person who has done the most resistance damage dealt by the expiry of a war.
  4. The winner gets 2 days of beige, the loser gets 1, capped at a total of 5 days of beige timer, but it can reset.
  5. The winner gets to loot the losing nation and their bank as per usual.
  6. The winner deals infra damage total at 5% on raid, 10% on ordinary, 15% on attrition.
  7. You can exit beige at anytime and return to a color with no penalty, (it doesn't count to the 5 day color change timer).
Edited by Sketchy
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2 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

 

  1. Make wars expire on a 3 day timer.
  2. Rather than have 100% resistance, and knock it down to 0%, just track resistance damage.
  3. The winner is the person who has done the most resistance damage dealt by the expiry of a war.
  4. The winner gets 2 days of beige, the loser gets 1, capped at a total of 5 days of beige timer, but it can reset.
  5. The winner gets to loot the losing nation and their bank as per usual.
  6. You can exit beige at anytime and return to a color with no penalty, (it doesn't count to the 5 day color change timer).

I like all of them except number 4. Being rewarded for winning a war with beige is kinda counter-intuitive imo, seeing as to how beige is meant to give nations time to recover from a loss.

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6 minutes ago, Kyubnyan said:

I like all of them except number 4. Being rewarded for winning a war with beige is kinda counter-intuitive imo, seeing as to how beige is meant to give nations time to recover from a loss.

Well the issue right now that sheepy is referencing in the OP is people are not beiging others and are just sitting on them which based on his silly rules consititutes slot filling, when in reality, for those alliances its the strategic play.

Considering its become TOO difficult (impossible without staggered beiging or avoiding beige at all, which is the issue at hand) in the current meta to effectively pin people down, a situation in which the winner gets a beige advantage over his losing opponents will allow for an eventual victory by slowly increasing the advantage.

The 5 day cap to beige equalizes it out anyway if a person gets rekt enough, allowing for comeback opportunities for people really down the shitter.

Edited by Sketchy

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Just now, Sketchy said:

Well the issue right now that sheepy is referencing in the OP is people are not beiging others and are just sitting on them which based on his silly rules consititutes slot filling, when in reality, for those alliances its the strategic play.

Considering its become TOO difficult (impossible without staggered beiging or avoiding beige at all, which is the issue at hand) in the current meta to effectively pin people down, a situation in which the winner gets a beige advantage over his losing opponents will allow for an eventual victory by slowly increasing the advantage.

Oh that's what he means by slot filling? This was legit the strategy to win for quite a while back when you could infra bomb people to shit without beiging. I just don't see how this constitutes slot filling in any way. It is just a strategy to keep the opponent down.

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Sketchy and I were tinkering around with his solution.  It is sound, but the #4 bit is the issue with it.  It'd just be a different method of war slot filling with that particular bit.

The rest of his suggestion is interesting though and I think we should explore on that build.

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Just hire someone to handle the reports for you.

/Thread.

Seriously though, remove beige and people who get knocked out remain knocked out for good. That'd simply empower the aggressor even more, in a context where the aggressor already has a large advantage over the defender. 

Sketchy's proposal is the most sound, barring #4. Forcing a W/L by the time the timer runs out would remediate the aspect of the victor not wanting to win to avoid giving beige time to the vanquished. 

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I also want to add that the player base has a method of handling issues like this as well.  If say, for example, I paid a person to war slot me - well, what's to stop my opposing enemies to hit that guy too for interfering?

 

(Not that I am.  I don't do that.  I find other creative ways to legit get things done)

Edited by Buorhann

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During the last global war it was far worse and yet people payed to be beiged. It isn't a matter of damage so much as being in beige protects you and lets you rearm without counters.

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I quite like some of Sketchy's ideas, but I think you could tweak it just a little bit to account for the way many wars work.

  1. Make wars expire on a 3 day timer. – Good idea

  2. Rather than have 100% resistance, and knock it down to 0%, just track resistance damage. – Great idea

  3. The winner is the person who has done the most resistance damage dealt by the expiry of a war. – Good idea

  4. The winner gets 2 days of beige, the loser gets 1, capped at a total of 5 days of beige timer, but it can reset. . – See below

  5. The winner gets to loot the losing nation and their bank as per usual. – See below

  6. You can exit beige at anytime and return to a color with no penalty, (it doesn't count to the 5 day color change timer). – Its already possible to exit beige (go grey) and declare new wars?

  7. Addition – If the gap between the winner and the loser’s resistance exceeds 30%, the loser gets 1 day of beige, exceeds 50% :2 days, exceeds 75%: 3 days

  8. Addition - If the gap between the winner and the loser’s resistance exceeds 20%, the loser is looted at current loot rates

  9. Current infra destruction on losses to remain

The adjustments to beige and looting encourage people to remain competitive, while ensuring that people who are genuinely losing wars are punished (loot) and have the ability to recover.

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