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Question about IQ alliances


Kastor
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>Economics

Last I checked, NPO had 2.7mil Fuel, 2.9mil Munitions, 1mil Steel, and 3mil Aluminum.  That's just from one of the stockpiles I've saw.

> @Hilmes/Kayser's "Talk to IQ" post

I would honestly open up communication with an IQ aligned alliance and look to working with them, but with the supremacy clause in the way - I cannot do that just yet till that is gone.

Edited by Buorhann
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10 minutes ago, Epi said:

You're new aren't you. Progress requires past experience, unless you're a reroll and if so either you're intentionally trolling? trying to spin something? or...idk your logic is just off. Not incorrect as i won't comment there, just off. On an entirely different note: The NG is Iroh in my opinion.

Dynamic 2018 ^-^

I have already stated that i am new. There is nothing logically improper about what i said, the issue lies with your reading comprehension. You assumed that sentence was referring to myself, instead of to the person i was speaking with, and the matter we were discussing.

Remove this mundane error, and there is no problem present. When in doubt, utilize Occam's Razor. There is nothing complex or ulterior to what was said, the simplest explanation, is the most correct in this case.

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10 minutes ago, Epi said:

I don't know it just feels strange to see a new player, criticizing i guess? in a very specific not quite "U suck at Var" way

Most new players probably do not come in with an experienced mentor leading them, nor with the interest to actually read the wiki, and check the forums for references to events they've heard of to learn more.

I suppose i'm weird, oh well.

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1 hour ago, Buorhann said:

> @Hilmes/Kayser's "Talk to IQ" post

I would honestly open up communication with an IQ aligned alliance and look to working with them, but with the supremacy clause in the way - I cannot do that just yet till that is gone.

Cool, now we're getting somewhere. While we're at it how about we don't throw up at the very thought of someone else talking to them huh? That would be nice to retain some sort of continuity and all. Wouldn't want folks to think your alliance has any hypocrites. You know because a few of them went out of their way blasting folks committing the crime of attempting to do something interesting in this god forsaken game. 

PvczX3n.jpg?1

 

“ Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. â€

–The First Ideal of the Windrunners,

 

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1 hour ago, Justin076 said:

You're really going to put the blame on economics? NPO has been able to build 130 nations from 9 cities to 14 cities? That is no easy task. If you're trying to say you didn't have time to build a war chest to do anything, its because you took out a crap of debt and focused fully on city construction. Construction that was really the only accomplishment of IQ's existence. NPO has consolidated the entire lower tier and has used it to their advantage to build as much as they have, which I can commend you for but to be honest, thats really all IQ has done. The sphere has created a safe space for NPO to grow and for Roqs ego to be protected. 

Building up to your opponents isn't a viable strategy? I mean considering you have 130 14 city nations, if you had built up, you probably could've done quite a number on the current coalition and would've been a lot of help to the alliances that are throwing themselves at us to defend ya'll. Historically you haven't been much help to the alliances you align yourself with and this is the case again. You have an incredible amount of potential strength at the helm but are sitting low and keeping out of range so not to risk taking any damage lmao. 

I'm not putting all the fault on IQ, if you'll notice in my posts earlier, I mentioned that IQ has helped the stagnation, not caused. All the alliances, except for Nuke Bloc have been making moves to try and incite a bit of life in the game, end the stagnation. EMC, which had consolidated much of the upper tier literally disbanded to try and end the stagnation. Then several EMC alliances with a large upper tier extended a hand to IQ alliances and they were turned away. 

I know you're trying really hard to fit into your new surroundings but man, this is hilarious. Protect Roq's ego? The previous war, BK and co were at 12-13 nations and we were at 8-9. We did what we could to make up that gap from solely a military standpoint. It has nothing to do with the fanciful reasons you've outlined here. That crap amount of debt we took? Had a very specific purpose and had nothing to do with city building for the sake of it. We moved a 100+ nations up 5 cities and therefore of greater use militarily. I like how while attacking IQ, it seems that you've taken a special interest in attacking NPO, and thats neat. Join the club. 

But let me point out whats wrong with the above three paragraphs. 

You criticise NPO for building up massively and then criticise for us not building up enough? Can you pick a single focus point for your criticisms, becomes easier for us to you know engage in conversation. You going about circular arguments within your own paragraphs kind of reduces the fun! We haven't been much help? I mean,I know you lack knowledge of military strategy, but I did not know it was so bad lol. We get out of the blocks, hold our grinder and do our damage in phases. This war has been no different, and despite your claims of not getting out there, we've still declared a great number of wars and dealt quite a bit damage by any measure. We've picked a specific strategy and stuck to it, for the purpose of being the most effective at what we do, reduce damages and continue wrecking folks. If you're looking solely at the first three days of stats to decide your winners/losers, its great, but the war's just begun and to truly look at our performance, one would need to, through the duration of the war. 

Once again Hilmes pointed out how the discussions ended up between folks and I'd take his account to be more credible than yours, simply because you conceded you weren't there for the entire discussions and therefore do not know how the complete discussions between folks went. 

1 hour ago, Justin076 said:

Thanks for the compliment, I'm trying hard for IQ's most hated forum poster 2018. 1) GPA yes, getting feelings of nostalgia right now; 2) We latched on to the only alliances we knew or were willing to extend their hand to us; 3) I'm glad you enjoy my shitposting 

Oh thats rich. Especially number 2. Only alliance willing to extend their hand to you, yet shit talk NPO for having the similar reasons for doing what we've done. Lol. I get it, its a different standard for EMC and a different standard for NPO. I mean get the serious heavenly hate folks have for us across realms, but I mean come on, we've been around for two years, the least you folks could try to do is you know at least try to look like you're not trying to make us the whipping boys of the game because of the same lol. 

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Just now, Hilmes said:

Cool, now we're getting somewhere. While we're at it how about we don't throw up at the very thought of someone else talking to them huh? That would be nice to retain some sort of continuity and all. Wouldn't want folks to think your alliance has any hypocrites. You know because a few of them went out of their way blasting folks committing the crime of attempting to do something interesting in this god forsaken game. 

No thanks.

I've already stated my opinion on the matter several times throughout the year and since IQ's formation.

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54 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

No thanks.

I've already stated my opinion on the matter several times throughout the year and since IQ's formation.

So its only ok when you talk to someone but not for anyone else?

PvczX3n.jpg?1

 

“ Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. â€

–The First Ideal of the Windrunners,

 

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5 minutes ago, Hilmes said:

So its only ok when you talk to someone but not for anyone else?

You can critique and yell at me on my moves all you want.  Hell, I took in Kastor and recently had a member post up a racist term.  I even made Rickky my FA.  There's plenty of ammo here.  Feel free.

 

If you can't handle the fire, well, you did the right thing - you jumped ship and joined a different alliance (Odd choice of an alliance at that given your posts here recently).

Just out of curiosity, did you even ask TKR members if they wished to persue better relations with IQ?  Or was that simply your decision?

Edited by Buorhann
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53 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

You can critique and yell at me on my moves all you want.  Hell, I took in Kastor and recently had a member post up a racist term.  I even made Rickky my FA.  There's plenty of ammo here.  Feel free.

Said as you criticize people for excising their critique. Double think at its finest.  

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PvczX3n.jpg?1

 

“ Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. â€

–The First Ideal of the Windrunners,

 

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Just now, Hilmes said:

Said as you criticize people for excising their critique. Double think at its finest.  

Wait, what?  What does that even mean with that context you replied to?

>so it's only ok for you to say something

>uh no, feel free, criticize me right back - let me help you, here's a list of things

>"said as you criticize people for excising their critique, double think"

 

What?

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22 minutes ago, Epi said:

It's not that, it just usually takes people a few weeks to group accustom to the game. Figure out all the mechanics, learn the history and then comment. We all stumble and fall in that regard. Sketchy is still correcting me on issues, I just remember feeling your stance being...odd. Idk maybe you were just following the narrative a little to the letter, can't remember. I'll check your original posts in a minute to figure out why I was curious. no editing :P [jks]

My knowledge is as much a fault of my personality as it is of being brought here and taught what i am doing by Dio. I am given to understand he is generally considered rather competent, which must certainly be an attribute pertaining to my conduct and knowledge thusfar.

I do hope you exercise with caution with Rose, the numbers do quite suggest they aren't ones for holding punches.

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1 hour ago, Buorhann said:

Wait, what?  What does that even mean with that context you replied to?

>so it's only ok for you to say something

>uh no, feel free, criticize me right back - let me help you, here's a list of things

>"said as you criticize people for excising their critique, double think"

 

What?

"Its ok to criticize me, go ahead"

On 3/21/2018 at 0:31 PM, Buorhann said:

Or how about we accept his edit to his reply instead of becoming an echo chamber?

And he changed it quickly once he knew he had overstepped it.  You weren't there.  You didn't see how fast pace and insane the shit slinging got.

When people are too focused on trying to one up, mistakes happen.  That's why I had quickly stepped in and voiced my displeasure to both sides participating.

 

On 3/21/2018 at 0:41 PM, Buorhann said:

That's actually amusing coming from you, CSM.

>person is called out

>said person admits it was a mistake and won't argue against it

>people keep "pointing it out" to him

"Wait you guys should stop"

Followed closely by:

"Its cool if we talk to people"

"We're going to shit on you if you do"

"Up is down"

"left is right"

 

Talk about inconsistency. Its like we're not even trying. What's next? The thought police are going to come by and tell me so eloquently with their memes how big of a straw man they can make?

Edited by Hilmes
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PvczX3n.jpg?1

 

“ Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. â€

–The First Ideal of the Windrunners,

 

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There's a bit of a difference in those situations.  For one, you're taking a OOC issue (Racist terminology) and applying it to your IC issue here (You talking to IQ).  Second, Arkiri admitted his mistake and stated he wouldn't argue against it.  I decided to due to my own personal reasons (I'm not a fan of people who admit their mistakes getting ganged up on, it's counter productive).  Was your conversations with IQ reps an admitted mistake on your part?  If so, you may have a point there.

Also, while I may have disagreed with your approach on handling the "IQ issue" - I don't recall heavily attacking you for it myself.  In fact, I quite remember telling you to ignore the critics (Including myself) and moving forward with your goal.

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25 minutes ago, Hilmes said:

Talk about inconsistency. Its like we're not even trying. What's next? The thought police are going to come by and tell me so eloquently with their memes how big of a straw man they can make?

Now you're just throwing shit to see what sticks.  Take a break.

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2 hours ago, Buorhann said:

>Economics

Last I checked, NPO had 2.7mil Fuel, 2.9mil Munitions, 1mil Steel, and 3mil Aluminum.  That's just from one of the stockpiles I've saw.

> @ Hilmes/Kayser's "Talk to IQ" post

I would honestly open up communication with an IQ aligned alliance and look to working with them, but with the supremacy clause in the way - I cannot do that just yet till that is gone.

NPO runs a command economy. Their bank war-chest is by extension their members war-chest. You may argue over the efficiency of such a model, or lack thereof, but that wouldn't be my point. The issue with stating that there is no argument to be made for the role of economics in decisions IQ takes, or does not take, is that it makes you intentionally obtuse. Economics will always have something to do with the decisions taken, by any rational or even semi-rational actor. Second, that stockpile will be cycled through its members, and into a war. Then, take into consideration the strata employed by IQ et al., and you will see why pointing towards that stockpile and claiming, "Oh yeah econ is no issue" is an incorrect point.

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28 minutes ago, Dio Brando said:

NPO runs a command economy. Their bank war-chest is by extension their members war-chest. You may argue over the efficiency of such a model, or lack thereof, but that wouldn't be my point. The issue with stating that there is no argument to be made for the role of economics in decisions IQ takes, or does not take, is that it makes you intentionally obtuse. Economics will always have something to do with the decisions taken, by any rational or even semi-rational actor. Second, that stockpile will be cycled through its members, and into a war. Then, take into consideration the strata employed by IQ et al., and you will see why pointing towards that stockpile and claiming, "Oh yeah econ is no issue" is an incorrect point.

I'm not arguing the efficiency or their model.

But claiming that no alliance has the resources to do something due to how Sheepy has the economy isn't a very strong argument when you're sitting on a stockpile that big.

I didn't even state how much money was in that stockpile (Well over 2bn).  That's just on one alliance in IQ.

Multiple alliances have done multiple wars with far less than that, and considering that Sheepy has (since those times) nerfed overall damage and resource use...

 

On the other hand, if one was to ask "Should NPO be doing wars to entertain people?"  - Well, I know what my answer is, but that's an awfully better question.

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Guest Karl VII
1 minute ago, Buorhann said:

I'm not arguing the efficiency or their model.

But claiming that no alliance has the resources to do something due to how Sheepy has the economy isn't a very strong argument when you're sitting on a stockpile that big.

I didn't even state how much money was in that stockpile (Well over 2bn).  That's just on one alliance in IQ.

Multiple alliances have done multiple wars with far less than that, and considering that Sheepy has (since those times) nerfed overall damage and resource use...

 

On the other hand, if one was to ask "Should NPO be doing wars to entertain people?"  - Well, I know what my answer is, but that's an awfully better question.

Should NPO be doing wars to entertain people? :3

200w.gif

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Just rebuff some NPO narratives!

"Edward wrote a some page ago:

To be fair, you shouldn't discount the fact that you've been a uniquely odious public face for a major alliance. Trust or not, the only things I know about TCW are 1) it used to be GPA; 2) it latched on hard to a perennially-victorious power sphere; and 3) you're in a class of your own when it comes to being a blowhard."

1) True, 2) Over reaching a bit,  One protectorate treaty with TKR that was developed into the shape it's now, instead of going paperless with the folks that farmed us montly is hardly latching on hard. Talking about spheres, TCW should have joined the block or at least 2 or 3 treaties with the sphere so that would be true 3) well excluding our former Prime Minister Justin who is not even a member and doesn't represent us, being blowhard is rahter hard given most of the government hates forums and rarely visits, evidenced in my lateness to this party here :D

 

Over all NPO getting the blame for game being boring or having "trust issues" or block building  is unfair, every alliance has their agenda and if they play the game they are most likely in it to win it. Making Orbis more interesting is not down to NPO or even a single block it's up to every player.  .

Edited by kalev60
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14 hours ago, hydraik said:

So I'm not in IQ but I'm being attacked as if we officially were. Here's my answer the people we're allied to are our best friends in the game and we haven't had any trouble with them. They've been great pals. While most of the rest of the game seems to be consisted of mostly just idiots that we don't seem to get along very well with. Personally I don't find pointlessly memeing the same thinking for weeks on end to be well fun. I hang with the type of people who make the game fun for me. People are going to be running from server to server for the next few weeks being idiots yelling I'm Polaris and thinking themselves funny. Why would I want to be on the side of the war that is essentially super easy to win and full of idiots.

Polaris - our greatest ally in this game always with us. Don't see how we could ever end that treaty or betray them.

OWR - we have had nothing but great experience with them as well they're cool peeps who love trading

Cerb - we had great times but allas they're now defunct

Zodiac - also now defunct but they were nice and cordial

BK - it's a new treaty that only happened because of the zodiac merger we'll see where it goes from there

Otoh there's our enemies like TGH who only seem to want to attack alliances that they outclass on at least 6-8 cities. Yes that sounds like allot of boring fun. Wait boring fun? Why would i want that? No thanks I'll stick with my friends.

Lmfaooo nobody asked you about your treaties, but sure mate have fun with your friends out there and have a happy time losing every war!

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aka Filip, The Royalist or Tremor

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12 minutes ago, FilipS said:

Lmfaooo nobody asked you about your treaties, but sure mate have fun with your friends out there and have a happy time losing every war!

You must have a radically different understanding of the question 'what do you get out of being in IQ...' that he was responding to.

Thats not a question about treaties bud? Hey, maybe you have a different interpretation. Or maybe you're just a dumb !@#$.

 

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3 hours ago, Buorhann said:

But claiming that no alliance has the resources to do something due to how Sheepy has the economy isn't a very strong argument when you're sitting on a stockpile that big.

Do you think their stockpile is big? I think it is the right stockpile for them to be ready for a long war, maybe too much alum and not enough steel even for they playing style, but you have to remember that their nations are likely short with warchest because Roq has everything and gives you when you need, is not like other alliances who have the bank stockpile and then every player with an adeguate warchest

They have over 130 nations around 15 cities, for example in the trail of tiers I used 108k ammo and 77 gas with 16 cities, ok I did a lot of wars but gives you an idea, they run on low-mid infra so at full military they produce almost nothing

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