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Alex, its been 9 months, I think its time to deal with reality.


Sketchy
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Hopefully something is done soon because it will still take the market a while to rectify itself even if there is a fix.

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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The market has gotten out of hand and I agree with the statements that it has gotten harder for smaller nations to grow effectively. In turn this has also stagnated the concept of alliances to an extent. Now if you don't join a large alliance that can finance (or at least is willing to finance) your growth you are not going to get far. What really should be a red flag for the markets was when the price of Raw in some cases I have seen cost more than the price of a Manufactured resource.

I don't have a problem with the updates per say...but I think it was an update that was massive and was implemented way to fast and all at one time instead of making slight updates here and there to watch to see how the markets did as well as to watch and see how everyone was able to react as well as to give everyone time to react and make changes.

I also think there are some things that need to be looked at into updating that could be used to help with the current problems such as new Projects, new improvements, maybe a new resource (though I honestly doubt that would help much).

There is no "easy" fix to this issue but nothing is ever easy.

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The United States of Belveria

 

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Communism. Solves. Everything. 

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24 minutes ago, Patrick Higgins said:

Communism. Solves. Everything. 

 

15 minutes ago, Eugene Faulkner II said:

And if you don't agree the Commissar will shoot you to raise morale.

I agree but I may be biased. 

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1 hour ago, Micchan said:

Totally agree

And we are pretty much still using the stockpiles pre update, if a major war happens the prices will double

Having projects for raw resources would be nice, doesn't fix the problem but at least is something

At least it would be a step in the right direction...and may lead to updates that would eventually fix the problem...or at least ease it.

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The United States of Belveria

 

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Sketchy is right. Please implement his suggestions Alex.

4 hours ago, Eugene Faulkner II said:

And if you don't agree the Commissar will shoot you to raise morale.

Morale was never low. Reports to the contrary are false and can be disregarded.

33 minutes ago, durmij said:

The solution always needed to be demand side, not supply side. 

Actual communism ^

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4 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Truth be told, I'm not really feeling quite as strongly about the economic mechanics as the majority here. (This could be due to my being almost completely outside of the general 'economy' though, I admit.) Changing the costs of producing resources changes the price of resources, yes, but the price of raw resources has increased as well as the price of refined resources, so small/new/defeated nations still aren't screwed over entirely. Adaptation is economic behavior. Still, the fact that the change made it so that one requires so many more improvement slots to reach the hard cap of resource productivity per city now means that it requires far too much infrastructure to reach that, forcing people to protect their investments more jealously and stagnate harder. This also screws over those with less capital to invest in the first place, otherwise known as the almighty silent majority "casual player" that Alex is trying to court.

That said...

@hydraik @Seraphim

You're both wrong in so many ways it isn't funny.
 

(1). Well, there are issues that it would not fix, but there are issues that it would.
(2). If raws are worthless, then the manufactured prices would drop due to lower overhead, not increase due to lack of supply. And if they did, then the demand on the raws would increase their price. Please learn basic economics, or at least check the prices of basic resources (hint: they're not worthless). The pollution costs increase the cost of production for both, and the improvement slots increase the investment required to reach the hardcap, but that's not what you said.
(3). The price of steel has made tanks overwhelmingly expensive relative to their combat performance, but that was a problem since before the update. Ships on the other hand compete against ships and aircraft, NOT cheap soldiers, and therefore their resource price doesn't matter quite so much.
(4). NO. Longer response: Fortify was and remains a perfect rebalancing factor mechanically. With it, an underdog nation could choose to, through their own actions, avoid ceding profit to attackers. This enabled attrition warfare and allows them to remain competitive or at least have options to fight back regardless of how many resources or nations their enemies could bring to bear. The balance problem is that winning wars leads to having more resources relative to the losing side with which to win more wars, which leads to having more resources with which to win more wars, until the losing side has nothing and can only have nothing. Since winning wars shouldn't result in a disadvantage, there must be some other counterplay option to enable competition despite that imbalance. Removing fortification will result in more wars in the short term, but it will make competitive warfare 100% impossible when (not if!) one side becomes overwhelmingly dominant and protects their dominance by preventing anyone from playing at all. I know guys like you just wanna beige people and make yourselves feel like you've won, but stop trying to justify your selfishness and lack of long-term vision through shilling for removing mechanics designed to keep your enemies competitive. Just because you've killed the game does not mean you've won it, only that everyone has lost a valued game experience.

(5). Realism takes a back seat to game balance, and it should. That said, your argument is absurd even in and of itself. Mining in first-world countries requires less pollution than in poorer countries, but at a far higher operating overhead and level of investment. This therefore results in first-world countries buying minerals from nations that strip-mine and worse, which they very much do. How do you think North Korea pays for their missile program? Hint: It's selling minerals like coal to China. Which they mine using prison labor. How do you think middle-eastern dictators pay for their solid gold toilets? Hint: It's selling oil to the West. All of this also encourages dictators that keep their population at a rock bottom level of development and quality of life, but that's another topic.

(6). Piracy IS the most profitable tactic. Arrgh.

 

#1 so you agree ok

#2 you're right I worded that wrong I more meant that the cost of raws production increased making them at their original prices worthless and then upshooting their cost a ton.

#3 ok you disagree about ships

#4 where did I state in that, that I think fortify is a bad mechanic? That's all that you're arguing. I said I think it causes less war and it does. The harder it is to win war, the less war there will be. In some cases you want it to be harder I understand that. Don't argue about a point I didn't even touch as a derogatory mark.

#5 I understand realism takes a back seat and I understand there's third world countries etc. But I've worked on a surface mine myself there's really not much pollution going on. Smelting on the other hand even in ideal conditions has a ton of pollution.

#6 that's prolly not gonna change but you don't need to penalize most of your playing base with decisions that only benefit them.

 

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I agree with Sketchy and I would like to add that whatever changes you plan to make @Alex please don't blindside us again. I can't quite understand the need to keep things hush hush if something major like an economy revamp was being planned.

Look at someone like EVE Online that publishes their expected economy changes months in advance to let everyone know what's coming. Putting such things on the test server lets you work out the kinks before it goes live.

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33 minutes ago, Them said:

I think the real question is as to how a student in one of the best econ programs in the US didn't see this coming.

There's two possibilities. One is that Sheepy didn't see it coming due to himself, the other is that sheepy didn't see it coming due to his economics studies.

I'm not sure which one makes me cry harder.

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1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

There's two possibilities. One is that Sheepy didn't see it coming due to himself, the other is that sheepy didn't see it coming due to his economics studies.

I'm not sure which one makes me cry harder.

If it makes you feel any better, my cousin is getting a psych degree from a uni with a less-than-15% acceptance rate and she didn't know what cognitive dissonance was her junior year. College, as a learning experience, is overrated. It's all about the paper you get at the end. 

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