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Ok, real talk. Player/Alliance votes


Buorhann
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3 minutes ago, Bot said:

Most of our members are new, so setting up parameters like, someone should be active on forums for a year in order to vote doesn't sound fair at all

And you can explain how can a player vote for the entire 2017 if he started playing a month ago?

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Just now, Spaceman Thrax said:

Can you really not see why people might be upset at the idea of you telling a bunch of people who are new and don't actually take part in the global community to vote for specific things?

I'm not dismissing the points some IQ people are making here, but the way you've chosen to go about making that point, when the option of, say, offering help to the organizers to address some of your concerns, strikes me as really petty. And the tenor of comments people have made since makes me pretty confident it was borne almost entirely out of that pettiness.

You don't like the community, so you're taking a bad thing about it and making it worse. Okay guys.

People who are new, they may not be active in forums, but people read things here, they are part of our community in discord, we interact with each other. It doesn't take one whole year to get to know people. For options like, economic system or forums or recruitment or best alliance for new players category, why shouldn't members vote for their own alliance or vote for their allies? You have been playing this game for so long, so are you fully aware of every alliance's economic system/forums/recruitment/new member friendliness? You are going to vote based on what you have seen so far, the same way others are voting. I don't see anything wrong in that.

For the record, all you people wouldn't say a thing if TKR were to get a lot of votes.

5 minutes ago, Micchan said:

And you can explain how can a player vote for the entire 2017 if he started playing a month ago?

The same way how you are judging other alliances without knowing anything about them. You are just picking options which you are aware of, they are picking options which they are aware of. it's not like we had a huge influx of new members in the last year which will completely overshadow the players that we got so far, so not allowing them to vote just shows your bias in this poll

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1 minute ago, Bot said:

It doesn't take one whole year to get to know people.

But it doesn’t just take a month to know everybody, learn about all the alliances and understand how the game works, now does it?

"There's nothing you can know that isn't known,
Nothing you can see that isn't shown,
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be,
All you need is love,
Love is all you need."
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5 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

Can you really not see why people might be upset at the idea of you telling a bunch of people who are new and don't actually take part in the global community to vote for specific things?

Democracy. That is what we get for inviting the mob in. :P 

 

That and if you view the DNC and IQ EMC and IQ as political parties, which for this they might as well be, IQ simply mobilized their voting base better then EMC and their time here doesn't matter considering they fulfilled the eligibility for "citizenship" (registering on the forums being the equivalent of registering to vote).

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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1 minute ago, BigHiggs said:

But it doesn’t just take a month to know everybody, learn about all the alliances and understand how the game works, now does it?

You have been playing this game for 252 days, you voted in those categories. Can you tell me how our economic system works? Are you really that informed about all the choices or just voting based on what you have seen so far?

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1 minute ago, BigHiggs said:

But it doesn’t just take a month to know everybody, learn about all the alliances and understand how the game works, now does it?

We have a wiki and most alliances have discord. If the electorate want to educate themselves they have the resources.

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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1 minute ago, Rache Olderen said:

We have a wiki and most alliances have discord. If the electorate want to educate themselves they have the resources.

But can a newbie seriously understand all that in a month?

2 minutes ago, Bot said:

You have been playing this game for 252 days, you voted in those categories. Can you tell me how our economic system works? Are you really that informed about all the choices or just voting based on what you have seen so far?

I’ve actually been here longer, nation resets and such. I’ve gotten a pretty good grasp on everything via hearing from different sides.

"There's nothing you can know that isn't known,
Nothing you can see that isn't shown,
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be,
All you need is love,
Love is all you need."
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1 minute ago, BigHiggs said:

But can a newbie seriously understand all that in a month?

You're right lets make it so only 1000+ day nations and 20+ cities can vote, they know more so obviously they should decide.

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2 minutes ago, BigHiggs said:

I’ve actually been here longer, nation resets and such. I’ve gotten a pretty good grasp on everything via hearing from different sides.

That is good, now can you explain how our econ works? Or how we manage new members, how we accept new members and how we recruit new members? I suppose you voted on those categories.

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9 minutes ago, Rache Olderen said:

Democracy. That is what we get for inviting the mob in. :P 

 

That and if you view the DNC and IQ EMC and IQ as political parties, which for this they might as well be, IQ simply mobilized their voting base better then EMC and their time here doesn't matter considering they fulfilled the eligibility for "citizenship" (registering on the forums being the equivalent of registering to vote).

If you view them as political parties, IQ is using a tactic they criticized in the past, which makes them hypocritical.

If you don't, or if you view the awards as a chance to reach across the sphere, or if you're a third party, or if you think it's a chance to highlight people who do things for the community, then you have a reason to be upset, which your actions have made worse.

Please note that a lot of the criticisms here are coming from people who aren't tied to either sphere.

Me personally, I didn't vote this year. I was going to do nominations just to highlight some people I thought might have been overlooked, but I was dumb and missed the deadline (maybe I'll do it later. I wanted to try and highlight people from earlier in the year, but my memory is bad hahaha). The flaws in the process were obvious to me, so I didn't participate. I didn't actively round a bunch of people up to try and ruin some more earnest people's fun though. So I think it's pretty scummy of you.

Edited by Spaceman Thrax
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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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Just now, Bot said:

That is good, now can you explain how our econ works? Or how we manage new members, how we accept new members and how we recruit new members? I suppose you voted on those categories.

Actually I didn’t even vote at all. I choose not to.

"There's nothing you can know that isn't known,
Nothing you can see that isn't shown,
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be,
All you need is love,
Love is all you need."
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1 minute ago, BigHiggs said:

Actually I didn’t even vote at all. I choose not to.

Alright that is fine. How about general members who voted on those options from EMC alliances? How much do you think they know about those topics?

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3 minutes ago, LeotheGreat said:

You're right lets make it so only 1000+ day nations and 20+ cities can vote, they know more so obviously they should decide.

In all honesty that would actually be I smarter idea. It’d prevent uneducated and unfair votes from being placed.

"There's nothing you can know that isn't known,
Nothing you can see that isn't shown,
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be,
All you need is love,
Love is all you need."
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3 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

If you view them as political parties, IQ is using a tactic they criticized in the past, which makes them hypocritical.

If you don't, or if you view the awards as a chance to reach across the sphere, or if you're a third party, or if you think it's a chance to highlight people who do things for the community, then you have a reason to be upset, which your actions have made worse.

Me personally, I didn't vote this year. I was going to do nominations just to highlight some people I thought might have been overlooked, but I was dumb and missed the deadline (maybe I'll do it later. I wanted to try and highlight people from earlier in the year, but my memory is bad hahaha). The flaws in the process were obvious to me, so I didn't participate. I didn't actively round a bunch of people up to try and ruin some more earnest people's fun though. So I think it's pretty scummy of you.

Last year Syndicate was voting for The Chola for best rookie alliance, we were voting for Syndicate/TKR on other options, I don't remember you saying anything. So why now?

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2 minutes ago, Bot said:

Alright that is fine. How about general members who voted on those options from EMC alliances? How much do you think they know about those topics?

It honestly depends on the person. However, the more educated, the better. 

If the vote was rigged against you you’d probably be b*tching and moaning.

Edited by BigHiggs
"There's nothing you can know that isn't known,
Nothing you can see that isn't shown,
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be,
All you need is love,
Love is all you need."
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Just now, BigHiggs said:

It honestly depends on the person. However, the more educated, the better. 

The point I'm trying to make is, even if you have played for a very long time, it's not possible for you to know better about other alliances. You will most likely hear things about Zodiac from your alliance mates or friends. Some where someone from TKR mentioned we just accept everyone to inflate our score, if that's the opinion you people have about Zodiac, I don't consider you (or those people) people as educated.

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3 minutes ago, BigHiggs said:

In all honesty that would actually be I smarter idea. It’d prevent uneducated and unfair votes from being placed.

All votes are unfair as it is favoring one group or candidate over another.

1 minute ago, BigHiggs said:

If the vote was rigged against you you’d probably be b*tching and moaning.

I will wait and see for evidence of actual rigging compared to endorsement of certain candidates and encouragement to vote

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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Just now, Bot said:

Last year Syndicate was voting for The Chola for best rookie alliance, we were voting for Syndicate/TKR on other options, I don't remember you saying anything. So why now?

Well. The one time I knew someone was literally saying "vote for X", I told them I thought it was pathetic and to knock it off, even though I thought the candidate they were talking about deserved it anyway.

Syndicate membership was informed enough to see those for the suggestions they were, though: suggestions. Chola was an excellent rookie alliance (don't you think? :P). Cerberus appears to be disbanding, and Sval can't make me laugh.

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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7 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

If you view them as political parties, IQ is using a tactic they criticized in the past, which makes them hypocritical.

Oh and what tactic is that? I don't seem to recall. I do recall people pointing out IQ is powerful because of our large member base and our joking about using human wave tactics so obviously if we encourage people to get out to vote and endorse certain candidates they would get more votes. That comes from having more people, which, again, is something pointed out frequently. Or as bot noted Zodiac is accused of accepting everyone to pad their score (which is childish) but if they are that gives them a larger voting base.

UQllJcz.png?2

2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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49 minutes ago, Micchan said:

Dear NPO & friends, if you think all your votes are legit why are you so scared of another poll? :D

Because our votes are legit and you shouldn't be allowed to subvert the voting process by moving the goalposts as part of an effort to ensure you win.  Honestly it's kind of pathetic that you're accussing us of rigging the vote when your proposal for a new vote with new rules intentionally targets our members in an attempt to disallow their votes, which (as I pointed out to you in another thread) is the actual definition of vote rigging.  The PW awards aren't the OWF awards and the only criteria to vote is to be a member of PW in good standing.  If you want to hold an OWF award (or an EMC award) and restrict voting to people you agree with, that's your prerogative, but you have no right or authority to discriminate against our members because the people you feel should win aren't winning.  The rules for this competition were clearly laid out and have not be violated - you don't get to change them partway through because you don't like how the vote is going.

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4 minutes ago, Bot said:

The point I'm trying to make is, even if you have played for a very long time, it's not possible for you to know better about other alliances. You will most likely hear things about Zodiac from your alliance mates or friends. Some where someone from TKR mentioned we just accept everyone to inflate our score, if that's the opinion you people have about Zodiac, I don't consider you (or those people) people as educated.

I’ve alliance hopped plenty of times, my friend. I think I’ve cherry-picked the important stuff. 

"There's nothing you can know that isn't known,
Nothing you can see that isn't shown,
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be,
All you need is love,
Love is all you need."
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3 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

Well. The one time I knew someone was literally saying "vote for X", I told them I thought it was pathetic and to knock it off, even though I thought the candidate they were talking about deserved it anyway.

Syndicate membership was informed enough to see those for the suggestions they were, though: suggestions. Chola was an excellent rookie alliance (don't you think? :P). Cerberus appears to be disbanding, and Sval can't make me laugh.

I doubt it, I was in touch with your leadership (not you directly). Tell me why you are so against it? Is it because of NPO? :P

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1 minute ago, Rache Olderen said:

Oh and what tactic is that? I don't seem to recall. I do recall people pointing out IQ is powerful because of our large member base and our joking about using human wave tactics so obviously if we encourage people to get out to vote and endorse certain candidates they would get more votes. That comes from having more people, which, again, is something pointed out frequently. Or as bot noted Zodiac is accused of accepting everyone to pad their score (which is childish) but if they are that gives them a larger voting base.

I was referring to you whining about people colluding on who to vote for. Which was done on a smaller scale earlier, and is the basis people in your sphere have laid out for doing it now.

Are you guys actually this obtuse, or are you actually just trying to go for mustache-twirling villains to liven things up? If it were the latter I might actually respect it.

Anyway. I feel my point makes sense so I'm moving on.

Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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2 minutes ago, BigHiggs said:

I’ve alliance hopped plenty of times, my friend. I think I’ve cherry-picked the important stuff. 

People who alliance hop and don't settle barely get to know anything about the alliance in my experience. What leadership positions you held and in which alliances?

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