Dear TKR- A Hogwarts message

[Tywin Lannister]

Just now, Buorhann said:

Oh no, not me.  My best friend passed away.  Although it did scare me enough that when I got back, I immediately arranged health check ups just in case.  It was pretty surreal.  Less than a month and it got him, a very aggressive form.

Oh that's terrible to hear, may he rest in peace! Cancer is a very scary disease indeed. 

[Prefonteen]

6 minutes ago, Lordship said:

Hey Partisan.

For quite a while now you have been actively working to undermine us. From PR campaigns in the backchannels to plans to spark a global war.

You plotted behind the scenes to attempt to spark a global war between the two sides by having NK, an ally of ours, along with you, Hogwarts, protect Arrgh. You know full well that we wouldn’t be able to retaliate against NK and that them protecting Arrgh along with you would drive a wedge between us and them. You specifically harbored Arrgh nations in your alliance while they were able to build up their military and then come out of Hogwarts to hit primarily our side.

 

https://imgur.com/a/lsfQJ

Hello Lordship. I was wondering when this would be posted. Let's get started then shall we?

Your first point is the easiest. You bring up the arrgh ghost screenshot as if it is some grand revelation that is supposed to incriminate me. It is not- I already covered this in my OP. I most certainly spoke to my allies about my plans, yes. That seems prudent to me.

The only correction to this point i'd make is that you're making a few assumptions you probably shouldn't. The arrgh ghosts -as stated before and can be confirmed by arrgh- were intended to hit UPN. No others. That is not "hitting primarily your side", as that would imply an intended general hit on you and your allies, rather than a fringe party which was at the time playing the middle of the political stage.

8 minutes ago, Tywin Lannister said:

You tried to get other people involved (for example, KT) in your scheme. Your plot didn’t just involve rolling UPN, of course. Given that the result would be global war, you wanted to also roll SK or even Acadia for potentially defending UPN. It doesn’t surprise me at all that some alliances might be pissed and concerned at the fact that you are calling people out for being “worthless parasites”. If you’d be willing to infringe on their sovereignty because you judge them as if you are some sort of god and can do what you please, don’t be surprised when others start to worry about how you’d justify hitting them. You may try to exert your clout on the game and it’s politics but don’t be surprised when people see you for what you are and defend themselves accordingly.

Every week it seemed there was a new rumor. A rumor mill you gleefully played your part in and helped create by posting “ominous” OWF posts and vague messages in multiple alliances channels. https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20973-a-hogwarts-courtesy-warning-you-know-who-you-are/&page=1

Is Hogwarts going to attack UPN? Are they going to attack us? Every week there was something new you were doing. Why are they sheltering Arrgh? Never once during any of this did you ever reach out to us. All we got were vaguely threatening messages and more Arrgh hits (They didn’t even all leave at once so you can’t argue that you were caught unaware). You can work to nitpick these points as you no doubt will try. But the reality is you spun your web, plotted to undermine us and got caught. Now here we are.

Correct. I spoke to multiple alliances in my plan. My plot set up a situation with escalation potential. Contingency plans were made and discussed for both counter options: Be it an IQ counter, or a Rose/TKR counter. As stated before: The intent was to create an interesting situation.

I'm glad we are getting to the core of this issue however: Your disdain for my (verbal) demeanor toward some within your sphere.

See. When you claim that I am "gunning for rose by virtue of my plan to hit UPN, and my historical callouts" as you did just earlier, you neglect the fact that the plot which you present as your incriminating CB deliberately places emphasis on setting back both "sides' equally. You state it yourself in you paragraph: "You wanted to also roll SK or even Acadia". This is entirely correct- that was the consideration. We weren't particularly gunning for you. We were simply looking to create entertainment in a world which you have stifled. You however, decided to take it personally and here we are. While I do not blame you, it would be nice if we could stick to the facts.

My "judgement" of alliances I deem "worthless parasites" is not an infringement on sovereignty. Frankly, my so-called egregious behavior is overstated in your accusations: It boils down to a few sets of In-Characer shitposting and trolling on IRC. Behavior of a nature that, while some may dislike it, is hardly a "breach of sovereignty" as you put it. In terms of doing so "as if i'm a god who can do as I please": Please. That's a bit melodramatic ;). Yes, we will do what we please. No, no people were harmed in the process.

You are simply lying through your teeth about oureach. Throughout the past months, your governments and I have been in contact ranging from daily to sporadically. These conversations often featured concerns, but also brainstorming sessions about the game. Concerns were brought up on both sides and discussed. One of these discussions for example occurred right around the sparta build up, when you believed we were gunning for you, rather than defending GOB.

Why is it that you are lieing about this, Lordship? My point here is that yes, I plotted. No, it was not specifically directed at you, nor was it of the nature you are attempting to portray it as to provide foundation for your "waterproof" CB.

What i'm seeing here is a desperate attempt at posthumously justifying a flailing CB through character assassination. Good luck with that. You'll need it.

 

More to follow.

 

 

[Trajan]

4 hours ago, Partisan said:

political spectrum

The feels..... 

[Don Juan]

3 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Oh no, not me.  My best friend passed away.  Although it did scare me enough that when I got back, I immediately arranged health check ups just in case.  It was pretty surreal.  Less than a month and it got him, a very aggressive form.

I'm sorry to hear that; that makes me very sad. I've lost quite a few relatives to cancer.

[Sir Scarfalot]

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Oh no, not me.  My best friend passed away.  Although it did scare me enough that when I got back, I immediately arranged health check ups just in case.  It was pretty surreal.  Less than a month and it got him, a very aggressive form.

That's awful... I hope your own health checks came out clean at least, man.

 

26 minutes ago, Lordship said:

Hey Partisan.

Blah blah blah blah blah

So go to war then, geez. Put your pixels where your mouth is

[Thalmor]

1 minute ago, Hope said:

obviously it wasnt cold enough to go outside and take a photo of yourself in a templar costume

Your damn right it isn't.

[hadesflames]

13 minutes ago, Thalmor said:

!@#$ off it's like 50 degrees outside.

If you don't like the weather where you are we can always just swap living arrangements. It's !@#$ing 27 degrees here. (80F for all you 'mericans.)

[Sir Scarfalot]

5 minutes ago, hadesflames said:

If you don't like the weather where you are we can always just swap living arrangements. It's !@#$ing 27 degrees here. (80F for all you 'mericans.)

Oh come on that's not a bad temperature, what's your username even for if you can't take the heat?

[Shiho Nishizumi]

Agreed. 27 is like spring down here.

 

Reach 40+, and then we can start talking.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Shiho Nishizumi

[Tywin Lannister]

^this above discussion is testament to how interesting this HW vs TKR debate is. TKR just hit Hogwarts members wherever you see them and get it over with. If the CB is indeed waterproof, it should not be a problem in the slightest. 

[hadesflames]

2 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Oh come on that's not a bad temperature, what's your username even for if you can't take the heat?

It's the middle of the night in Autumn though... 27 degrees in the middle of the night in the middle of October is relatively hot.

 

2 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Agreed. 27 is like spring down here.

 

Take 40+ and then we can start talking.

But it's not spring. It's Autumn. And it's the middle of the night. The sun isn't even out.

[Charles Bolivar]

48 minutes ago, Tywin Lannister said:

It's a question though. It's very different from putting words in mouth. Putting words in mouth would be, "You waited for them to fight for your ally and then wanted to hit haha" without any question mark following. This is a question you can simply say no to if you wanted and honestly could!   

Then no, we didn't wait for an ally to be attacked. There is no way we could have even predicted that Sparta would have attacked grumpy and threw months if not a whole year of the snek's upper tier planning under a bus like that. 

I like to think I can predict many things but even I couldn't predict something like that. Like who actually could ?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Tormund Giantsbane

[Tywin Lannister]

Just now, Tormund Giantsbane said:

Then no, we didn't wait for an ally to be attacked. There is no way we could have even predicted that Sparta would have attacked grumpy and threw months if not a whole year of the snek's upper tier planning under a bus like that. 

I like to think I can predict many things but even I couldn't predict something like that. Like who actually could ? 

So Sparta has already done more to harm the snake than TKR? Tsk tsk. This needs to be rectified people! 

[Lordship]

25 minutes ago, Partisan said:

Hello Lordship. I was wondering when this would be posted. Let's get started then shall we?

Your first point is the easiest. You bring up the arrgh ghost screenshot as if it is some grand revelation that is supposed to incriminate me. It is not- I already covered this in my OP. I most certainly spoke to my allies about my plans, yes. That seems prudent to me.

The only correction to this point i'd make is that you're making a few assumptions you probably shouldn't. The arrgh ghosts -as stated before and can be confirmed by arrgh- were intended to hit UPN. No others. That is not "hitting primarily your side", as that would imply an intended general hit on you and your allies, rather than a fringe party which was at the time playing the middle of the political stage.

Correct. I spoke to multiple alliances in my plan. My plot set up a situation with escalation potential. Contingency plans were made and discussed for both counter options: Be it an IQ counter, or a Rose/TKR counter. As stated before: The intent was to create an interesting situation.

I'm glad we are getting to the core of this issue however: Your disdain for my (verbal) demeanor toward some within your sphere.

See. When you claim that I am "gunning for rose by virtue of my plan to hit UPN, and my historical callouts" as you did just earlier, you neglect the fact that the plot which you present as your incriminating CB deliberately places emphasis on setting back both "sides' equally. You state it yourself in you paragraph: "You wanted to also roll SK or even Acadia". This is entirely correct- that was the consideration. We weren't particularly gunning for you. We were simply looking to create entertainment in a world which you have stifled. You however, decided to take it personally and here we are. While I do not blame you, it would be nice if we could stick to the facts.

My "judgement" of alliances I deem "worthless parasites" is not an infringement on sovereignty. Frankly, my so-called egregious behavior is overstated in your accusations: It boils down to a few sets of In-Characer shitposting and trolling on IRC. Behavior of a nature that, while some may dislike it, is hardly a "breach of sovereignty" as you put it. In terms of doing so "as if i'm a god who can do as I please": Please. That's a bit melodramatic ;). Yes, we will do what we please. No, no people were harmed in the process.

You are simply lying through your teeth about oureach. Throughout the past months, your governments and I have been in contact ranging from daily to sporadically. These conversations often featured concerns, but also brainstorming sessions about the game. Concerns were brought up on both sides and discussed. One of these discussions for example occurred right around the sparta build up, when you believed we were gunning for you, rather than defending GOB.

Why is it that you are lieing about this, Lordship? My point here is that yes, I plotted. No, it was not specifically directed at you, nor was it of the nature you are attempting to portray it as to provide foundation for your "waterproof" CB.

What i'm seeing here is a desperate attempt at posthumously justifying a flailing CB through character assassination. Good luck with that. You'll need it.

 

More to follow.

 

 

5

"Your first point is the easiest. You bring up the arrgh ghost screenshot as if it is some grand revelation that is supposed to incriminate me. It is not- I already covered this in my OP. I most certainly spoke to my allies about my plans, yes. That seems prudent to me."

It's not a grand revelation nor was it intended to be so, but it certainly does implicate you and your scheming.

 

"The only correction to this point i'd make is that you're making a few assumptions you probably shouldn't. The arrgh ghosts -as stated before and can be confirmed by arrgh- were intended to hit UPN. No others. That is not "hitting primarily your side", as that would imply an intended general hit on you and your allies, rather than a fringe party which was at the time playing the middle of the political stage."

I am aware that they were intended to hit UPN, but it doesn't detract from the fact that they came out, swung at our side, and you continued to harbor them. This is an empirical fact which you cannot deny, and it adds to our suspicion of your questionable behavior.

 

"Correct. I spoke to multiple alliances in my plan. My plot set up a situation with escalation potential. Contingency plans were made and discussed for both counter options: Be it an IQ counter, or a Rose/TKR counter. As stated before: The intent was to create an interesting situation."

Interesting for you, difficult for us, which further increases the validity of the CB.

 

"I'm glad we are getting to the core of this issue however: Your disdain for my (verbal) demeanor toward some within your sphere." See. When you claim that I am "gunning for rose by virtue of my plan to hit UPN, and my historical callouts" as you did just earlier, you neglect the fact that the plot which you present as your incriminating CB deliberately places emphasis on setting back both "sides' equally. You state it yourself in you paragraph: "You wanted to also roll SK or even Acadia". This is entirely correct- that was the consideration. We weren't particularly gunning for you. We were simply looking to create entertainment in a world which you have stifled. You however, decided to take it personally and here we are. While I do not blame you, it would be nice if we could stick to the facts."

Even if you weren't particularly gunning for us, you were gunning for us to an extent, which increases the validity of the CB.  We decided to take matters into our own hands and end your plotting, so yes, here we are.

 

"My "judgement" of alliances I deem "worthless parasites" is not an infringement on sovereignty. Frankly, my so-called egregious behavior is overstated in your accusations: It boils down to a few sets of In-Characer shitposting and trolling on IRC. Behavior of a nature that, while some may dislike it, is hardly a "breach of sovereignty" as you put it. In terms of doing so "as if i'm a god who can do as I please": Please. That's a bit melodramatic ;). Yes, we will do what we please.

It is most certainly an infringement of sovereignty when you would have used that to justify hitting them. No, no people were harmed in the process, but they would have been. You are still held accountable because mens rea was there.

 

"You are simply lying through your teeth about oureach. Throughout the past months, your governments and I have been in contact ranging from daily to sporadically. These conversations often featured concerns, but also brainstorming sessions about the game. Concerns were brought up on both sides and discussed. One of these discussions for example occurred right around the sparta build up, when you believed we were gunning for you, rather than defending GOB."

Concerns about us militarizing? Concerns about the Grumpy hit? The last time you and I spoke before you sent me a menacing "3 hours" PM was about the minisphere idea, having literally nothing to do with Grumpy or our build up or anything else.

 

Why is it that you are lieing about this, Lordship? My point here is that yes, I plotted. No, it was not specifically directed at you, nor was it of the nature you are attempting to portray it as to provide foundation for your "waterproof" CB.

You plotted, it was directed at us to an extent, which is more than enough to validate the CB. Just because you weren't planning to hit someone else as well does not mean we should be expected to ignore the fact that you were going to hit us as well.

 

"What i'm seeing here is a desperate attempt at posthumously justifying a flailing CB through character assassination. Good luck with that. You'll need it."

What you are actually seeing is a group of people staring straight at you while you have your hand in the cookie jar. Just because you had your hand in another cookie jar doesn't mean it wasn't in ours as well

Edited October 19, 2017 by Lordship

[Tywin Lannister]

Just now, Lordship said:

bla bla bla

Another book Lordship, you're a bit like JK Rowling! Partisan has wronged you enough man. Let the declarations fly! Go all Voldemort on Hogwarts already. Kill them where you see em! 

[Prefonteen]

27 minutes ago, Lordship said:

To address your specific post

“The designed plan would see us employ arrgh ghosts to strike UPN and dare any comers to fight us.”

Here you fail to mention how you tried to get others on board, namely NK and KT, knowing full well it would put us in a very awkward position and either make it look like we are divided or that we are not respecting NK’s protection of Arrgh. Given that NK is a TKR ally it would also potentially drive a wedge between TKR and it’s other allies because we wouldn’t be able to help in a situation against NK.

 

I've addressed this in my previous post: Yes. I speak to allies and friends about plans and yes, I plan for contingencies. Similar plans were made in case IQ countered. It *wasn't about you* and frankly, that is probably the only (or one of the only) reason that Apeman would not have said "!@#$ off" to me in general. If I had actively gunned for you, i'd imagine both parties (NK through you and KT through Pantheon) would have cooled relations with us. But maybe i'm old fashioned. r you're grasping.

30 minutes ago, Lordship said:

“The notion of the plan was indifferent in nature: It was a strike for the sake of fun. Entertainment for all. But also one where both sides were placed in a position where they had to think, and where rough decisions had to be made. We figured, that this would spur drama and political activity. “

Except it is actually not indifferent, and is rather cold and calculating in nature, despite your rhetoric that it is. You have been talking about creating an “awakening” in the politics and using this as a means to achieve that goal simply fits your MO.

So... cold and calculating in creating an "awakening" in the general game? What the hell does that even mean? Yes. My ambition has been to change the fabric of politics by pushing for realpolitik. I imagine that is what you are referring to, at least. This plays into that in the sense that it incentivises alliances to make defacto realpolitik decisions. You again attempt to portray this as a horrible thing when really... it isn't.

33 minutes ago, Lordship said:

“Unfortunately, elements of the plan were leaked prematurely by select parties, and so we decided to shut the effort down. The window of opportunity had closed, and Hogwarts returned to its standard operations. The world continued spinning. Real life sprung on me and I delegated responsibilities to the alliance in my absence. “

That’s not how it works bud. You nearly set off an explosive. The mens rea was very much there and you cannot simply use suddenly getting busy in real life as an excuse to wipe yourself clean from wrongdoing

My point with regards to my absence was that in the interim, Hogwarts was both quiet and pacified. In combination with the fact that the initial plan did not particularly target either sphere, one could have construed it as "Oh hey. HW is perhaps not the existential threat I may think they are". Suffice to say, I have fully taken responsibility for the plot in my post, have I not? That is not really under discussion.

 

36 minutes ago, Lordship said:

“This situation persisted until recently our ally, Sparta, decided to strike another ally (GOB) out of boredom. Though rough choice, we opted to honor our agreement and defend our ally, who happened to be an ally of TKR as well.”

Yes, the very unfortunate situation presented itself to you and you were forced to choose between two shitty hands. I am not sure why you mention Grumpy being an ally of TKR in this sentence, seems very out of place considering you didn’t communicate with us throughout the entire process and even played into some misconceptions of a possible hit on TKR proper by sending me menacing messages and music videos. Again, fits your MO.

Them mention is very much relevant because it's clear you are piggybacking on what you view as a window of opportunity to take us out (in your eyes, probably pre-emptively?).

 

Following Sparta's hit on GOB, we were not made aware that you were planning to defend GOB until the last moment and so we militarized and planned assuming we were GOB's only backup. We were informed of your coalition about 30 - 20 minutes prior to our estimated go-time, and added to your channel. By then, it was too late. Moreover, my "lack of communication" goes both ways: You could have messaged me, but didn't. Instead, I received  query from GOB asking me if we were planning to hit TKR because you believed so. I gave GOB an assurance that I would not, and sent you a music video for shits and giggles because the entire idea was ludicrous.

"our ally just got hit? LET'S GO HIT TKR". Come on. Really? We then had a brief talk about it (again, initiated by me) after all was said and done.

See, you're putting these random facts and tidbits out there as if there was no diplomacy and I was just screwing the buck with you. But that's a bit of a onesided presentation.

 

39 minutes ago, Tywin Lannister said:

"This brings us to now. Hogwarts has finished its war with Sparta but finds itself occupied with picking up the pieces in the aftermath of what defacto be called an intra-ally war. The Knights Radiant has evidently identified a state of vulnerability in what I can only imagine they view as a rival and/or threat, and has opted to move accordingly. Piggybacking on injuries sustained during a war fought to defend their own ally, they have engaged in the typical diplomatic offensive which precedes military action - action which has been confirmed at this point by various sources-."

Well I think anybody would be threatened by your intentionally misleading behavior, considering all of the intel which was confirmed by Hidude and some other Arrgh guys right before and during the Grumpy-Sparta war. Why would TKR see you as a rival? Up until we received confirmation of your schemes, we had no real issues with you, certainly none to warrant an aggressive action or to build military. Don’t flatter yourself. We would fight you even if you were fresh out of the shower once we ran into the very incriminating intel.

As noted in my previous points: You are deliberately neglecting diplomatic conversations while misconstruing lighthearted matters. Do you have a reason to feel on edge? Definitely. I cede that. Do the majority of your accusations hold ground? Not really.

43 minutes ago, Tywin Lannister said:

"Though their backroom movements have been quite visible due to leaks, they have thus far dodged and deflected requests for clarification while their member nations spiked their military.  The Knights Radiant's interference for their own grudges and ambitions in what was supposed to be a secluded (and fun for all) affair presents a strong contrast with their preachings for isolated small scale wars and dynamic politics."

Why on earth would I give you any info if we were planning to mount an offensive? I mean you’re just pulling things out of nowhere now. Exactly what grudge? Exactly what ambition? Is it so wrong to support one’s allies in their attempt to defend themselves from your plots to not only infringe upon their sovereignty but also attempt to put them at odds with not only each other but the other side of the web as well? That is very hypocritical of you to say, considering you literally planned for the scheme to go global.

What exactly is this "plot to infringe upon your ally's sovereignty"? This is now the 2nd or 3rd time i've seen this in your post, and it makes no sense. Please elaborate.

As for plots to put allies at odds with eachother: Please. Anything I take an ally along for, I discuss with them first. If they are uncomfortable, I alter and/or drop. This was the case back when we were allied, and it is now. Stop pulling shit out of your ass.

49 minutes ago, Lordship said:

"The bottomline is simple: Hogwarts with its handful of nations does not posess the punching power to fight off a horde of 200/300/400 nations. Mathematically impossible, the situation presented is a papers please v2 with a flimsier CB, a more unfortunate timing and a smaller, historically less beligerent defendant."

Of course you don’t, which is why you were trying to garner support for your schemes and ran off when we decided to put an end to it. Apples and Pears. The context is different and so is the CB. Which, I might add, is very much waterproof.

1. My initial plot included antagonizing *both* sides. if I wanted you dead you'd be a crater right now and IQ would reign supreme.

2. There was no garnering of support since that moment, as I was inactive with RL until this crisis popped up. You facts don't add up.

3. I'm still right where i've been at: In my AA. No running there. I did send my members off for the time being. I was told someone wanted to hunt whales.

29 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Oh no, not me.  My best friend passed away.  Although it did scare me enough that when I got back, I immediately arranged health check ups just in case.  It was pretty surreal.  Less than a month and it got him, a very aggressive form.

Sorry to hear mate. That sounds like shit. Condolences.

[Tywin Lannister]

Just now, Partisan said:

-

stop quoting me in place of Lordship incorrectly or i will roll you. i kid you not.  

[Victor Truchev]

2 minutes ago, Partisan said:

1. My initial plot included antagonizing *both* sides.

 

[hope]

32 minutes ago, Thalmor said:

Your damn right it isn't.

hi thalmor o7

 

edit: your handwriting is booty tho

Edited October 19, 2017 by Hope

[Charles Bolivar]

20 minutes ago, Tywin Lannister said:

Another book Lordship, you're a bit like JK Rowling! Partisan has wronged you enough man. Let the declarations fly! Go all Voldemort on Hogwarts already. Kill them where you see em! 

Eumir does it better 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Tormund Giantsbane

[Tywin Lannister]

1 minute ago, Tormund Giantsbane said:

Eumir does it better 

Eumir does it best* alas, you have to make do for now.  

[Lordship]

5 minutes ago, Partisan said:

I've addressed this in my previous post: Yes. I speak to allies and friends about plans and yes, I plan for contingencies. Similar plans were made in case IQ countered. It *wasn't about you* and frankly, that is probably the only (or one of the only) reason that Apeman would not have said "!@#$ off" to me in general. If I had actively gunned for you, i'd imagine both parties (NK through you and KT through Pantheon) would have cooled relations with us. But maybe i'm old fashioned. r you're grasping.

So... cold and calculating in creating an "awakening" in the general game? What the hell does that even mean? Yes. My ambition has been to change the fabric of politics by pushing for realpolitik. I imagine that is what you are referring to, at least. This plays into that in the sense that it incentivises alliances to make defacto realpolitik decisions. You again attempt to portray this as a horrible thing when really... it isn't.

My point with regards to my absence was that in the interim, Hogwarts was both quiet and pacified. In combination with the fact that the initial plan did not particularly target either sphere, one could have construed it as "Oh hey. HW is perhaps not the existential threat I may think they are". Suffice to say, I have fully taken responsibility for the plot in my post, have I not? That is not really under discussion.

 

Them mention is very much relevant because it's clear you are piggybacking on what you view as a window of opportunity to take us out (in your eyes, probably pre-emptively?).

 

Following Sparta's hit on GOB, we were not made aware that you were planning to defend GOB until the last moment and so we militarized and planned assuming we were GOB's only backup. We were informed of your coalition about 30 - 20 minutes prior to our estimated go-time, and added to your channel. By then, it was too late. Moreover, my "lack of communication" goes both ways: You could have messaged me, but didn't. Instead, I received  query from GOB asking me if we were planning to hit TKR because you believed so. I gave GOB an assurance that I would not, and sent you a music video for shits and giggles because the entire idea was ludicrous.

"our ally just got hit? LET'S GO HIT TKR". Come on. Really? We then had a brief talk about it (again, initiated by me) after all was said and done.

See, you're putting these random facts and tidbits out there as if there was no diplomacy and I was just screwing the buck with you. But that's a bit of a onesided presentation.

 

As noted in my previous points: You are deliberately neglecting diplomatic conversations while misconstruing lighthearted matters. Do you have a reason to feel on edge? Definitely. I cede that. Do the majority of your accusations hold ground? Not really.

What exactly is this "plot to infringe upon your ally's sovereignty"? This is now the 2nd or 3rd time i've seen this in your post, and it makes no sense. Please elaborate.

As for plots to put allies at odds with eachother: Please. Anything I take an ally along for, I discuss with them first. If they are uncomfortable, I alter and/or drop. This was the case back when we were allied, and it is now. Stop pulling shit out of your ass.

1. My initial plot included antagonizing *both* sides. if I wanted you dead you'd be a crater right now and IQ would reign supreme.

2. There was no garnering of support since that moment, as I was inactive with RL until this crisis popped up. You facts don't add up.

3. I'm still right where i've been at: In my AA. No running there. I did send my members off for the time being. I was told someone wanted to hunt whales.

 

"I've addressed this in my previous post: Yes. I speak to allies and friends about plans and yes, I plan for contingencies. Similar plans were made in case IQ countered. It *wasn't about you* and frankly, that is probably the only (or one of the only) reason that Apeman would not have said "!@#$ off" to me in general. If I had actively gunned for you, i'd imagine both parties (NK through you and KT through Pantheon) would have cooled relations with us. But maybe i'm old fashioned. r you're grasping. "

Again with this "we were gonna do it to them too" rhetoric. And again I say, just because you would have done it to IQ as well doesn't mean our qualms with you are not valid. 

 

"So... cold and calculating in creating an "awakening" in the general game? What the hell does that even mean? Yes. My ambition has been to change the fabric of politics by pushing for realpolitik. I imagine that is what you are referring to, at least. This plays into that in the sense that it incentivizes alliances to make defacto realpolitik decisions. You again attempt to portray this as a horrible thing when really... it isn't."

You say it incentivizes alliances when really it *forces* them into making realpolitik decisions. Which again, shows you infringing on alliances sovereignty by forcing them to play the way *you* want them to play. Which is definitely a horrible thing.

 

"Them mention is very much relevant because it's clear you are piggybacking on what you view as a window of opportunity to take us out (in your eyes, probably pre-emptively?)."

No. It gained momentum when we confirmed your plotting by the leaks on KT radio and subsequent conversations with select individuals. Not because you were somehow weakened by the Grumpy defense. Again, would do the same if you were fresh out of the shower.

 

"Following Sparta's hit on GOB, we were not made aware that you were planning to defend GOB until the last moment and so we militarized and planned assuming we were GOB's only backup. We were informed of your coalition about 30 - 20 minutes prior to our estimated go-time, and added to your channel. By then, it was too late. Moreover, my "lack of communication" goes both ways: You could have messaged me, but didn't. Instead, I received  query from GOB asking me if we were planning to hit TKR because you believed so. I gave GOB an assurance that I would not, and sent you a music video for shits and giggles because the entire idea was ludicrous."

There was literally zero reason to trust anything you'd say considered we had very recently confirmed your plot, which put us way on edge. May be shits and giggles for you but when it fits the same MO that you have been operating under for quite a while, you can easily see how it would be menacing to a party that thought there was a chance you'd hit them.  So why give up a potentially strategic advantage of having superior intel for the sake of listening to words we wouldn't trust either way?

 

"As for plots to put allies at odds with eachother: Please. Anything I take an ally along for, I discuss with them first. If they are uncomfortable, I alter and/or drop. This was the case back when we were allied, and it is now. Stop pulling shit out of your ass."

Not your allies, mine. Not pulling anything out of my ass, just stating empirical facts

 

"

1. My initial plot included antagonizing *both* sides. if I wanted you dead you'd be a crater right now and IQ would reign supreme.

2. There was no garnering of support since that moment, as I was inactive with RL until this crisis popped up. You facts don't add up.

3. I'm still right where i've been at: In my AA. No running there. I did send my members off for the time being. I was told someone wanted to hunt whales.

"

1. It's a good thing we found out about this plot then before you could "turn us into a crater". Your arrogance is astounding lol

2. You were garnering support as you developed the plot, when your support fell through it got scrapped. You were still plotting, and deserve to be treated as such. Again, the mens rea was there.

3. *Whale noises*

[Tywin Lannister]

2 minutes ago, Lordship said:

-

Proper formatting, using quotes box to reply, etc. Look it up. Please. 

[Prefonteen]

34 minutes ago, Lordship said:

It's not a grand revelation nor was it intended to be so, but it certainly does implicate you and your scheming.

 

Yet you refuse to acknowledge context.

Quote

 

I am aware that they were intended to hit UPN, but it doesn't detract from the fact that they came out, swung at our side, and you continued to harbor them. This is an empirical fact which you cannot deny, and it adds to our suspicion of your questionable behavior.

 

 

 

You could have you know, discussed that issue with me. Instead I got a "who are you hitting" to which I did reply you nor your allies would be hit, but that we were going to try something out. Honesty and assurance despite a tense situation. That's merely one of many examples where communication and diplomacy was employed to soothe what seems to be your fragile state of mind.

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Interesting for you, difficult for us, which further increases the validity of the CB.

 

 

 

2 months back, perhaps. Now? Iffy. Why did you not swing back then? Why did you wait for us to be tied up defending your ally?

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Even if you weren't particularly gunning for us, you were gunning for us to an extent, which increases the validity of the CB.  We decided to take matters into our own hands and end your plotting, so yes, here we are.

 

 

 

Thing is, that rather than ending my plots, you have taken a pacified snake, and turned him into a reinvigorated snake. Great decisionmaking there, bud.

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It is most certainly an infringement of sovereignty when you would have used that to justify hitting them. No, no people were harmed in the process, but they would have been. You are still held accountable because mens rea was there.

 

 

 

But... Hogwarts did not use anything to justify hitting anyone? Are you really creating a hypothetical situation and using that to try to incriminate me and justify your CB? what the !@#$ lordship.

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Concerns about us militarizing? Concerns about the Grumpy hit? The last time you and I spoke before you sent me a menacing "3 hours" PM was about the minisphere idea, having literally nothing to do with Grumpy or our build up or anything else.

Let me put it out again:

Grumpy told me you were concerned (which made no sense whatsoever)

I told SRD that we were not gonna do jackshit except for defending GOB

I then sent you the 3 hour thing for shits and giggles. You played along.

Right after the hit, I sent you a message along the lines of "So what made you think we were gunning for you?" and engaged in discussion on the subject.

 

The notion that nothing was attempted there is dumb, and you stubbornly zeroing in on "OMG THREATENING VIDEO" is rather ... telling of your predisposition.

 

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You plotted, it was directed at us to an extent, which is more than enough to validate the CB. Just because you weren't planning to hit someone else as well does not mean we should be expected to ignore the fact that you were going to hit us as well.

 

 

 

So why did you not hit back then then? Why wait until we are engaged defending GOB? Why not talk to me about it in the interim? Naturally you have no obligation to, but this all seems a little too ....convenient.

 

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What you are actually seeing is a group of people staring straight at you while you have your hand in the cookie jar. Just because you had your hand in another cookie jar doesn't mean it wasn't in ours as well

 

 

My hand was, if you want to call it that, in the cookie jar a month ago. A more apt analogy would be a group of jocks who see a baller from another school who just got in a scrap and justifying a beatdown because of something that occurred a month earlier but the jocks didn't want to act on because they weren't sure if they'd take a bloody nose.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Partisan

[Quichwe10]

48 minutes ago, Thalmor said:

Your damn right it isn't.

Thalmor, you gotta use marker next time. I read that as "Hi, Hope lolis 2017 -Thalmor"