Inquisition Flight 420 to Nassau - UPN Removed

[Roquentin]

I find it hilarious that you consider white peace to be you making concessions. Rewording it into various different forms doesn't change the fact that it is white peace.

 

White peace is the best possible outcome your side can hope for because you have lost.  

White peace is the worst possible outcome for our side, because we won. 

 

Best case scenario, you can argue we are "winning" but haven't won, but considering you have no hope of actually winning or even pushing things to an even position and we've bested you in every metric and the only reason you think you haven't lost is literally "because we feel it to be true", I think its fair to say you have lost.

 

As for the prisoner alliance,  I find it hilarious that you brought up the one in Silent War, considering it was BK who imposed it on you and I was on "your side" during that war. But if you read my original comment I pointed out that the messages sent out to advertise the so called "DMZ" were deceptive. Which was the main problem I had with it.

 

Neither side has made any reason concessions all war. Don't try and pretend otherwise. The only difference between us is we opened discussions with the perfectly reasonable position of you admitting defeat, and maintained that for over a month, and you opened with the position of white peace despite the war not being close at all, and then tried to propose the same offer but dress it up all nice to us (including asking for apologies? For what getting attacked?).

 

Then you finally decided to shift from white peace but added additional terms like legitimizing your CB and protecting your feelings, and only conceding to a narrow victory (those billions of damage difference between us and your inability to drag down our upper tier or secure our mid tier says otherwise).

 

The rewordings specifically made note of facts on the ground that were easily agreeable. If you don't see it as a concession, then you're being too stubborn here. 

 

I could go into why we haven't really "lost", but you've already rejected the argument. Either way people don't feel defeated as long and are capable of providing resistance. Like I said, if people don't go into your kill zone, they're relatively safe. 

 

BK imposed it with the support of their side and you weren't really on our side by then. You had already peaced out and begun your shift. There was seriously little outcry from anyone and the messages were about as deceptive as the ones sent out this time. Both were just propaganda.

 

At the time, it was sent, a lot of your nations had been compromised. Many have broken free due to errors on our end like beiging or overdeployment of certain nations which led to counters that broke them free. This was also when white peace was proposed, so it was even closer then.

 

Like I said, we've been willing to drop certain items. It's a narrow outcome in terms of how conflicts have gone down so far.  I'm not sure how it isn't a concession.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually we said we don't accept #1 and your definition of narrow and you all threw a fit and left the channel. Also since we are talking about specific terms what was the point of #2?

 

As for the blitz we saw it as keeping our foot on the gas. So you can disagree if it was bad taste or not, but until we definitively end the war, we aren't going to hold back.

 

As far as many of us were concerned we started by looking for reps. As has been pointed out previously, your side said you didn't like reps and we said ok no reps but you surrender. And that was towards the very beginning of peace talks when the channel devolved into a trolling pit.

 

We then waited for weeks for you to give a viable counter offer since we had removed reps. However you stubbornly stood on white peace without any flexibility until last week.

 

The reps then went back on the table because you have insisted on dragging this on beyond a reasonable time frame so we felt forcing the reps issue was justified, as many of us feel our members have earned it.

 

So if you want to come back to the negotiating table now that you've had a chance to cool off, by all means, we're waiting.

 

I think you need to have a talk with rache (maybe seeker and curu?) Because at least one of them explicitly stated that IQ was winning and the others at a minimum implied it.

 

It was rejected wholesale and our final rep left when that happened.

 

I don't see a need for you to hold back. The timing was problematic and made people defensive, however.

 

Like I said, we weren't going to entertain reps.

 

 

Maybe that was said when you lost the blitz. Like I said, many of your core nations became compromised and some of the nations involved still are.  

Edited May 26, 2017 by Roquentin

[Felkey]

The rewordings specifically made note of facts on the ground that were easily agreeable. If you don't see it as a concession, then you're being too stubborn here.

 

I could go into why we haven't really "lost", but you've already rejected the argument. Either way people don't feel defeated as long and are capable of providing resistance. Like I said, if people don't go into your kill zone, they're relatively safe.

 

BK imposed it with the support of their side and you weren't really on our side by then. You had already peaced out and begun your shift. There was seriously little outcry from anyone and the messages were about as deceptive as the ones sent out this time. Both were just propaganda.

 

At the time, it was sent, a lot of your nations had been compromised. Many have broken free due to errors on our end like beiging or overdeployment of certain nations which led to counters that broke them free. This was also when white peace was proposed, so it was even closer then.

 

Like I said, we've been willing to drop certain items. It's a narrow outcome in terms of how conflicts have gone down so far. I'm not sure how it isn't a concession.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was rejected wholesale and our final rep left when that happened.

 

I don't see a need for you to hold back. The timing was problematic and made people defensive, however.

 

Like I said, we weren't going to entertain reps.

 

 

Maybe that was said when you lost the blitz. Like I said, many of your core nations became compromised and some of the nations involved still are.

 

Maybe the timing was off but it had been planned in advance. We aren't going to call something off just because someone wants to possibly maybe talk.

 

As for the failure of the blitz, fending off a potential kill shot so to speak, isn't even close to the same thing as winning.

 

You weren't going to entertain reps fair enough. But you must well know we weren't going to accept white peace as we have made it very clear. We have also made it very clear we do not accept your cb. And given that we have asked numerous times for proof of validity, putting it in was from our perspective out of poor taste and insulting.

 

Edit: if your cb was, "we thought we would win" can you just say so already and be done with it?

Edited May 26, 2017 by Felkey

[Shiho Nishizumi]

Like I said, we weren't going to entertain reps.

 

We weren't going to entertain anything less than a plain surrender, but that didn't stop you from sending us about four white peace requests before that 'narrow' victory thing.

[Sketchy]

The rewordings specifically made note of facts on the ground that were easily agreeable. If you don't see it as a concession, then you're being too stubborn here.

 

White peace is white peace. How you word it doesn't change that.

 

I could go into why we haven't really "lost", but you've already rejected the argument. Either way people don't feel defeated as long and are capable of providing resistance. Like I said, if people don't go into your kill zone, they're relatively safe.

That is exactly what I said, you feel you are not losing and that is the only basis for your unwillingness to accept defeat. Well that and "syndi-sphere triumphalism and the hidden sinister implications of wanting a victory to be acknowledged" or w/e tinfoil hat stuff you were saying earlier.

 

BK imposed it with the support of their side and you weren't really on our side by then. You had already peaced out and begun your shift. There was seriously little outcry from anyone and the messages were about as deceptive as the ones sent out this time. Both were just propaganda.

 

At the time, it was sent, a lot of your nations had been compromised. Many have broken free due to errors on our end like beiging or overdeployment of certain nations which led to counters that broke them free. This was also when white peace was proposed, so it was even closer then.

 

"You had already peaced out and begun your shift"

The second part of that is false, our shift started quite a bit after the war finished. Probably best not to make random assumptions.

 

Like I said, we've been willing to drop certain items. It's a narrow outcome in terms of how conflicts have gone down so far.  I'm not sure how it isn't a concession.

Your concession added multiple new terms to make up for it not being white peace. You literally said right after it was posted

"This is really about the best we can give here"

 

If that is not statement that says "this is our final offer, no more compromises" I don't know what is.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Sketchy

[Roquentin]

Maybe the timing was off but it had been planned in advance. We aren't going to call something off just because someone wants to possibly maybe talk.

 

As for the failure of the blitz, fending off a potential kill shot so to speak, isn't even close to the same thing as winning.

 

You weren't going to entertain reps fair enough. But you must well know we weren't going to accept white peace as we have made it very clear. We have also made it very clear we do not accept your cb. And given that we have asked numerous times for proof of validity, putting it in was from our perspective out of poor taste and insulting.

 

Edit: if your cb was, "we thought we would win" can you just say so already and be done with it?

 

The issue is, it was asked that we do it as a joint chan right before. If that hadn't happened, and a few days later it would have been somewhat different. 

 

People naturally felt a spirit of optimism and that momentum was on their side. That's about it. It naturally manifested in bravado. 

 

Our CB wasn't we thought we could win. It's ultimately that a war was being planned by someone on the Syndisphere side and we opted to act first based on the confirmation we had.  We didn't think we would necessarily win. It was always going to be a grind and I never really saw it as feasible to get more than the mid tier based on the upper tier advantage your side had. It was also always going to be a question of whether enough nations could handle the human wave strategy.  We didn't want a war at the time but did it out of necessity. 

 

 

 

White peace is white peace. How you word it doesn't change that.

 

That is exactly what I said, you feel you are not losing and that is the only basis for your unwillingness to accept defeat. Well that and "syndi-sphere triumphalism and the hidden sinister implications of wanting a victory to be acknowledged" or w/e tinfoil hat stuff you were saying earlier.

 

 

"You had already peaced out and begun your shift"

The second part of that is false, our shift started quite a bit after the war finished. Probably best not to make random assumptions.

 

Your concession added multiple new terms to make up for it not being white peace. You literally said right after it was posted

"This is really about the best we can give here"

 

If that is not statement that says "this is our final offer, no more compromises" I don't know what is.

 White peace is just peace, so wording does matter if some qualifications are made to the peace. It wouldn't be worded in a similar fashion to the Fed-HBE announcement

 

It's not the only basis. In most wars where someone was defeated, they were no longer able to provide any effective resistance(fully pinned down). This war is uncharacteristic. It's a much different conflict than others. It's not really tinfoil hat since it's the way your side has acted. There is no reason for me not to believe that you're insistence isn't because you want to lord over another W and further the "my way or the highway" style of thinking Syndisphere has had. The track record speaks for itself.

 

I wouldn't really say it was false since efforts had already been made to disassociate from the previous actions and that's what I meant.

 

I said it was about the best we could give.  if #1 had been the only issue, we would have probably voted to drop it but we had indications that wasn't the case. When we became aware the rest was going to get rejected, that's when the last person pulled out.

[Guest Karl VII]

Well, at least someone from IQ finally acknowledges they are in an alternate reality

Well at least i don`t tell people i want to help them "hang themselves".

So i`m quite glad that we`re in "different" realities

Tbh I`m not suprised that peace talks lead to nowhere when pantheon high gov is behaving like this lul

Edited May 26, 2017 by Karl VII

[Felkey]

Well at least i don`t tell people i want to help them "hang themselves".

So i`m quite glad that we`re in different realities

What? I was being nice. Would you prefer me to be not nice?

[Felkey]

I think roq is more accurate than Milton to be honest

I could be blind drunk while using the bathroom and still be more accurate than Milton.

[Bollocks]

Well actually, BK is the only one on the IQ side who has a "no-defeat" record, some IQ alliances haven't been winning any wars for a while. NPO has never been on the winning side. I'm not saying any side has committed any wrong, but some people are frustrated, which is probably the reason some IQ members antagonize Syndisphere so much. 

 

Zodiac is a new alliance, thus it has a clean record. IQ is a new entity, thus it also has a clean "no-defeat" record. That in addition to BK's lack of L's thus far. 

 

Anneal, you're probably the most reasonable poster here, so this isn't directed at you. But seeing Roq, et al. to try to spin a some far-fetched narrative where IQ were the ones to attack Syndisphere with a nonexistent CB and then play the victim card with some tinfoil hat conspiracies about syndisphere triumphalism and invasion of safe spaces is laughable at best. No one buys it.

 

I get it, IQ trying to salvage a bad situation that they got themselves into. It's time to protect some IQ feelings, ignore the facts that, as Milton said himself, Syndisphere has inflicted far more damage than received, or that Syndisphere is far better positioned to win a war of attrition (hint: we're already winning). I hope there's still enough dissent within IQ to start questioning the direction of IQ leadership.    

[8mrgrim8]

 

 

Like I said, we've been willing to drop certain items. It's a narrow outcome in terms of how conflicts have gone down so far.  I'm not sure how it isn't a concession.

 

 

lol, concession apparently = 3 new terms

[Yang]

You: Ask for a joint chan right before you launch a huge downsell blitz. Much of it doesn't work out and sets the tone for the peace discussions

Blitzes always need about half a day planning at least, especially one that involves multiple alliances. The joint chan was agreed on about half an hour before day change. By then, all target lists were already given out and the momentum for the blitz was swinging in way too hard to be canceled.

 

Even if the leaders of the coalition was one giant hivemind, the different time zones means it takes time for someone to communicate something to everyone else. e.g. half of Rose high gov is asleep on day change and low gov is trusted to keep the gears of war running.

[Buorhann]

The joint chan was only created because several of us were approached by various IQSphere aligned leaders looking to discuss possibilities of peace.

[Boony]

I don't think surrendering is that bad. There was a war sometime ago that ended in white peace, but everyone knew who actually won.

 

White peace, in a winning scenerio, implies a certain respect for your opponent. I guess syndisphere doesn't have that for IQ.

[Sisyphus]

Why are we even arguing?

 

Let's just start imposing cumulative reps for every extra day we have to sit on top of IQsphere moving forward.

 

If they think they can afford to stay at war, then certainly they can afford to pay for peace when the time comes, no?

[Felkey]

Why are we even arguing?

Let's just start imposing cumulative reps for every extra day we have to sit on top of IQsphere moving forward.

If they think they can afford to stay at war, then certainly they can afford to pay for peace when the time comes, no?

I like this idea, even suggested as much

[Dr Rush]

Well actually, BK is the only one on the IQ side who has a "no-defeat" record, some IQ alliances haven't been winning any wars for a while. NPO has never been on the winning side. I'm not saying any side has committed any wrong, but some people are frustrated, which is probably the reason some IQ members antagonize Syndisphere so much. 

 

It would be real nice if we could get a third major bloc though, spice some things up.

On the other hand our side is equally frustrated. We've been attacked with a flimsy CB again. Our opponents have universally failed to offer a real challenge in the war they started again. Milton still hasn't learned how to use quotes. Our peace offer was met with empty posturing and demands for validation, again. And the other side is insisting on trying to make sure they will never be relevant again, again.

[Harrison Richardson]

Can someone gin up figures for revenues between the two sides?  Everyone keeps talking about it but I'd be curious.  

[Buorhann]

Can someone gin up figures for revenues between the two sides? Everyone keeps talking about it but I'd be curious.

We have rough estimates on all bank figures. It's obvious that IQSphere cannot compete with us on a economic scale.

 

The only thing I can think of is that their leaders are literally trying to grind their alliances down on purpose before a few of them quit out of frustration and embarrassment.

 

That's speculation though.

[Eumirbago]

On the other hand our side is equally frustrated. We've been attacked with a flimsy CB again. Our opponents have universally failed to offer a real challenge in the war they started again. Milton still hasn't learned how to use quotes. Our peace offer was met with empty posturing and demands for validation, again. And the other side is insisting on trying to make sure they will never be relevant again, again.

This time around, we can thank Black Knights and Zodiac Foreign Affairs as a testimony on how The Greatest Sphere This Game Will Ever See is truly the Greatest Ever. They themselves know that their fellow leaders in Inquisition are full of weak ass noobs ranging from Kastor to Valdoroth. I am not surprised at the lack of quality in the membership of IQ+Friends because they are as good as their leaders and their shit war effort is so !@#$in obvious that alliances such as GOB and CoS didn't have to go in. Shit, they were so bad, the "Knights Templar" lost their balls last minute and evilpiggy is getting his shit kicked in because Thalmor has forsaken him.

 

The Greatest Sphere will now be able to add more chapters and verses to the ever expanding doctrines of Winning and the gospel of Gitting Gud.

[Eumirbago]

I don't think surrendering is that bad. There was a war sometime ago that ended in white peace, but everyone knew who actually won.

 

White peace, in a winning scenerio, implies a certain respect for your opponent. I guess syndisphere doesn't have that for IQ.

Syndisphere better not respect anyone writing in the book of Defeatism.

 

This is now a crusade against anyone and everyone that is so weak, they are now proclaiming the truth of Weakness and Defeat as the only fact. This is heresy.

 

The Inquisition is doing a good job of lining them all up and making sure they know the error of their ways. Shit, Zodiac and BK did a good job moving in with NPO so that we may all truly see Victory. These are true martyrs of Winning. They even gave up flawlessness in order to be the light for these weaklings. That they too, became weak so they may be understood.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Jacob Moore

[Harrison Richardson]

We have rough estimates on all bank figures. It's obvious that IQSphere cannot compete with us on a economic scale.

 

The only thing I can think of is that their leaders are literally trying to grind their alliances down on purpose before a few of them quit out of frustration and embarrassment.

 

That's speculation though.

 

I'd be interested to see the relative difference between the two.  I mean, it's only a few, but the players I'm attacking have 300, 400, 700 infra maybe.  That's gotta be negative income with any degree of a military, right?

[ComradeMilton]

By 'playing the market', you'd be playing yourself since the current prices favour buyers for reselling later (or buyers that do it to replenish their WC), not sellers.

 

But hey, that means lost $$$ for you, so by all means, go ahead.

Thank you for your permission. I've been waiting for it. I'm pretty decent at the market; it's why I have the amount of money I mentioned.

[Buorhann]

I'd be interested to see the relative difference between the two. I mean, it's only a few, but the players I'm attacking have 300, 400, 700 infra maybe. That's gotta be negative income with any degree of a military, right?

It is. I'll see if numbers can be dug up.

[Queen M II]

I think if all the numbers were tallied, totaled, and compared publicly, for all of Orbis can see, we can end this discussion right now. Numbers, in black and white, don't lie. Put them up so that it's obvious to everyone how ridiculous it is that the war is still continuing if one side (IQ) has clearly been defeated and is staying in just to save some sort of face that is long past saving.

[Insert Name Here]

I think if all the numbers were tallied, totaled, and compared publicly, for all of Orbis can see, we can end this discussion right now. Numbers, in black and white, don't lie. Put them up so that it's obvious to everyone how ridiculous it is that the war is still continuing if one side (IQ) has clearly been defeated and is staying in just to save some sort of face that is long past saving.

 

 

I beg to differ. We should give them bigger shovels - the deeper the grave, the better.