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The war so far - v3


Avruch
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I'm pretty sure for them they didn't think the odds looked good. I don't think Paragon went in thinking Proxy was a sure win, for instance and Keegoz has indicated as such. I'm pretty sure people leading those alliances at the time didn't think they had a massive advantage going in since they knew who they were fighting. The odds weren't as long for you as you're describing. I'm not robbing them of agency and they all knew about those structural disadvantages.

 

Oy vey, all you have to do is read their war declarations the multiple times they declared on us. Impero has a couple of doozies, including one really aggressively arrogant post he was forced to walk back in fantastic fashion. I'm not going to try to teach you the history of each conflict, maybe someone else can take on that thankless task. 

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What game have you been playing?

I've been the playing the game from the other side for the past two years. I get Syndisphere reality = actual reality on the forums but it's possible for things to have a different appearance on the other side and I can't think of a single war where we were super optimistic and didn't think it'd be close at least. We were most optimistic for 168 day, but when we found out many would not go in except on defensive clauses, it quickly was apparent it would be a mess.

 

edit: with Proxy it had the factor of several alliances swinging the other way. the forecast was better before BK went neutral and then hit VE, yes.

Edited by Roquentin
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I just want to state, the alliances usually involved with "Syndisphere", did not intend to establish a hegemoney just as much as Roq is stating that NPO and Friends in IQ has no intention.

 

The community kinda decided on that as a whole.  Not us.

 

 

With the leaked logs showing that Roq was receptive to the idea of adding VE into IQ (As well as possibly HBE due to VE's request and maybe Lordaeron, because why not) - along with that supremacy clause - I don't think it's far fetched to see an intention to form a hegemoney there.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Not saying I oppose, but let's cut the bullshit, Roq.

Edited by Buorhann
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I just want to state, the alliances usually involved with "Syndisphere", did not intend to establish a hegemoney just as much as Roq is stating that NPO and Friends in IQ has no intention.

 

The community kinda decided on that as a whole.  Not us.

 

 

With the leaked logs showing that Roq was receptive to the idea of adding VE into IQ (As well as possibly HBE due to VE's request and maybe Lordaeron, because why not) - along with that supremacy clause - I don't think it's far fetched to see an intention to form a hegemoney there.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Not saying I oppose, but let's cut the bullshit, Roq.

 

How exactly? For a group that wouldn't want things to get boring, wouldn't changing it up make sense? I'm not saying you intended it, but you embraced it after. I'm pretty sure if we had a hegemoney, the same people who got tired of the other one would do something about it. 

 

edit: I was receptive to adding them to help balance out the bloc further knowing we'd more mid-tier support.  Anything would still be fairly difficult and it would be preferable to have them with us helping than on the other side.

Edited by Roquentin
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I don't know about you, but I sure don't find having multiple allies planning to roll me, "interesting".

 

This I disagree with. Trying to work against your allies, while not the way I choose to play, is some interesting stuff and is good for driving conflict and giving people political things to discuss. Being willing to do that to make the game dynamic more interesting, while again not what I'd want to do, is something I'm grateful for in the sense that it does allow for some uncertainty and political maneuvering. There's political players on the IQ side who I respect a lot for having the initiative to try something, and them getting lashed on these forums can be a bit much.

 

That said, I feel it would have been more interesting if it was done in a way that was less blatant. It was abundantly clear where they stood immediately, and any of their claims to the contrary were too weak to really enforce that kind of maneuvering. That's what I meant earlier when I said they'd basically just joined Paragon, and that it wasn't as dynamic as they thought. They tried, which is more than I can say for several people on the tkr/syndisphere side, but I'd have hoped for more from them. 

Edited by Spaceman Thrax
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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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How exactly? For a group that wouldn't want things to get boring, wouldn't changing it up make sense? I'm not saying you intended it, but you embraced it after. I'm pretty sure if we had a hegemoney, the same people who got tired of the other one would do something about it. 

 

edit: I was receptive to adding them to help balance out the bloc further knowing we'd more mid-tier support.  Anything would still be fairly difficult and it would be preferable to have them with us helping than on the other side.

 

Hey Roq, in the midst of all this moralizing to us about how we should work for a fairly balanced game instead of playing to win using mastery of game mechanics... Can you tell us if/how you and NPO were involved in the 'mercy board' on (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), and what kinds of cool lulzy peace terms you imposed through it? Just to start us off, we were recently regaled with the hilarious tale of how the mercy board convinced someone to eat cat food on video to avoid permanent ZI. I can only speak for myself, but I'd love to learn more about NPO's approach to hegemoney. 

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I've been the playing the game from the other side for the past two years. I get Syndisphere reality = actual reality on the forums but it's possible for things to have a different appearance on the other side and I can't think of a single war where we were super optimistic and didn't think it'd be close at least. We were most optimistic for 168 day, but when we found out many would not go in except on defensive clauses, it quickly was apparent it would be a mess.

 

edit: with Proxy it had the factor of several alliances swinging the other way. the forecast was better before BK went neutral and then hit VE, yes.

I don't think you were looking at the same game back in 2015 I was.

 

SK, Guardian, and Mensa were coming off a big loss. t$ was forced to leave Paragon instead of capitulating to Impero, and tC certainly didn't have high opinions of them.

 

I was in SK at the time so I didn't participate, but Paragon losing Proxy was an impressive feat to watch. And fighting the Covenant right after, at its prime, was far from easy.

 

Every war after that got easier for sure, but that's what happens when your people are seasoned fighters and have been galvanised against multiple threats. Several alliances on your side of this war have had extended periods of peace while t$, Guardian, and Mensa in particular were in the thick of every single conflict.

 

If we're playing easy mode is because we already beat the game on nightmare and just want to find all the eager eggs at this point.

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One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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Hey Roq, in the midst of all this moralizing to us about how we should work for a fairly balanced game instead of playing to win using mastery of game mechanics... Can you tell us if/how you and NPO were involved in the 'mercy board' on (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), and what kinds of cool lulzy peace terms you imposed through it? Just to start us off, we were recently regaled with the hilarious tale of how the mercy board convinced someone to eat cat food on video to avoid permanent ZI. I can only speak for myself, but I'd love to learn more about NPO's approach to hegemoney. 

That wasn't NPO. That was GOONS and your side has as many people  who were affiliated with them as ours did including some major figures.  Think some of them were haikus, graphics drawing, etc.  iirc the Dionysus cat food thing was to get back into GOONS not to avoid a ZI sentence. Would have to dig into it to remember more.

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That wasn't NPO. That was GOONS and your side has as many people  who were affiliated with them as ours did including some major figures.  Think some of them were haikus, graphics drawing, etc.  iirc the Dionysus cat food thing was to get back into GOONS not to avoid a ZI sentence. Would have to dig into it to remember more.

 

I genuinely don't know, so enlighten me - was Goons not part of the Glorious Pacifican empire, a beneficiary of the pax pacifica? Those Goons era leaders aren't part of NPO's clan? 

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That wasn't NPO. That was GOONS and your side has as many people  who were affiliated with them as ours did including some major figures.  Think some of them were haikus, graphics drawing, etc.  iirc the Dionysus cat food thing was to get back into GOONS not to avoid a ZI sentence. Would have to dig into it to remember more.

 

In fairness to Roq he's cooled it a lot with the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) talk. Chasing him around with it at this point is counterproductive, I think.

 

No one wants to think about that game. :P

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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In fairness to Roq he's cooled it a lot with the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) talk. Chasing him around with it at this point is counterproductive, I think.

 

No one wants to think about that game. :P

 

For me, its just interesting to compare and contrast his complaints about the behavior of our supposed hegemoney with the reports of how NPO exercised its power in an even more dominant position. 

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Nice circle jerk fam

Roll Squeegee pact with Redarmy and Ameyuri

Blues Brothers pact with Redarmy

Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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I genuinely don't know, so enlighten me - was Goons not part of the Glorious Pacifican empire, a beneficiary of the pax pacifica? Those Goons era leaders aren't part of NPO's clan? 

In that case no. They were mainly on opposite sides and also tied to some of my "good friends" in Syndisphere. An early version of GOONS which did some OOC stuff was  but they got wiped out for that and disowned.  edit: Also, it was mostly unaligned people that got mercy boarded so didn't require too much power and GOONS wasn't that huge of a player.

 

I don't think you were looking at the same game back in 2015 I was.

 

SK, Guardian, and Mensa were coming off a big loss. t$ was forced to leave Paragon instead of capitulating to Impero, and tC certainly didn't have high opinions of them.

 

I was in SK at the time so I didn't participate, but Paragon losing Proxy was an impressive feat to watch. And fighting the Covenant right after, at its prime, was far from easy.

 

Every war after that got easier for sure, but that's what happens when your people are seasoned fighters and have been galvanised against multiple threats. Several alliances on your side of this war have had extended periods of peace while t$, Guardian, and Mensa in particular were in the thick of every single conflict.

 

If we're playing easy mode is because we already beat the game on nightmare and just want to find all the eager eggs at this point.

 

I didn't really see it as them being forced to leave as opposed to pushing their split plan forward which predated anything Impero did with regards to pushing Partisan out. It's possible it was the deciding factor to go with the split, but it seemed they had the plan in place. 

 

It's fair if it looked that way as Paragon looked big on paper but there was a realization that not being able to counter Mensa to avoid the UPN treaty being triggered would cause difficulty.  Mensa also

avoiding Rose to not tap DEIC also was factoring in.

.

Edited by Roquentin
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How exactly? For a group that wouldn't want things to get boring, wouldn't changing it up make sense? I'm not saying you intended it, but you embraced it after. I'm pretty sure if we had a hegemoney, the same people who got tired of the other one would do something about it. 

 

edit: I was receptive to adding them to help balance out the bloc further knowing we'd more mid-tier support.  Anything would still be fairly difficult and it would be preferable to have them with us helping than on the other side.

 

First question, we literally have no reason to change things up?  I mean, what else do you want us to do?  Hold your hand with Foreign Affairs too?  Must I remind people again that we've attempted to change things around before, but either was A: Not trusted or B: "Plotted to be betrayed" ?

 

"Sorry Syndicate.  Mensa and Syndicate gotta part ways.  Mensa's going to go sign NPO now.  We have no intention to fight you guys."

 

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?  If you want change, work at it (And not like Kastor).

 

Second statement, that's fine.  I'm not opposed to that.  I'm merely pointing that out to show that your ideas will form into a hegemonic one, just like how the beginning of Syndicate, Guardian, and Mensa led to where we're at now.

Edited by Buorhann
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First question, we literally have no reason to change things up?  I mean, what else do you want us to do?  Hold your hand with Foreign Affairs too?  Must I remind people again that we've attempted to change things around before, but either was A: Not trusted or B: "Plotted to be betrayed" ?

 

"Sorry Syndicate.  Mensa and Syndicate gotta part ways.  Mensa's going to go sign NPO now.  We have no intention to fight you guys."

 

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?  If you want change, work at it (And not like Kastor).

 

Second statement, that's fine.  I'm not opposed to that.  I'm merely pointing that out to show that your ideas will form into a hegemonic one, just like how the beginning of Syndicate, Guardian, and Mensa led to were we're at now.

 

Well, why would you want things to get boring? I'm not saying you'd have to ally us, but for a second there there seemed to be some potential in the Rose treaty, like forming a new sphere, but it was just additional consolidation. Are you just referring to the tS-UPn proposal again or something else? 

 

Also wasn't Syndisphere based on a similar basis to your quoted passage? Partisan not wanting early Paragon dominance of the game and making a new sphere based on that? Pretty sure that was one of the reasons alternative sphere plans were being made.

 

I don't think it would since you have people willing to risk themselves losing to keep things interesting like BK,  Zodiac, and CS. If we started recreating the situation they were in before, pretty sure they'd call us on it and want to address it like some of them did with OO.

 

Anyway, glad we're having more constructive debate here. This is a good post from you.

Edited by Roquentin
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To clarify, the intentions of forming the inquisition was not so we could cackle in some kind of all powerful hemegony while the game rotted. It was to create diversity in the politics, and I will firmly stand by that as the core principle of the bloc. I like the syndisphere, I liked the people, but staying where we were, at least for me, wasn't an option for the long-run.

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Roll Squeegee pact with Redarmy and Ameyuri

Blues Brothers pact with Redarmy

Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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To clarify, the intentions of forming the inquisition was not so we could cackle in some kind of all powerful hemegony while the game rotted. It was to create diversity in the politics, and I will firmly stand by that as the core principle of the bloc. I like the syndisphere, I liked the people, but staying where we were, at least for me, wasn't an option for the long-run.

 

No one is claiming that you have the intention on forming some dominating hegemoney.  However, people are certainly not buying the whole "We're not forming a hegemoney" bit either.

 

In all honesty, I don't think anyone really cares if you want to form a hegemoney or not.  It's just a matter of calling people's bullshit out for argument's sake on these forums.

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First question, we literally have no reason to change things up? I mean, what else do you want us to do? Hold your hand with Foreign Affairs too? Must I remind people again that we've attempted to change things around before, but either was A: Not trusted or B: "Plotted to be betrayed" ?

 

"Sorry Syndicate. Mensa and Syndicate gotta part ways. Mensa's going to go sign NPO now. We have no intention to fight you guys."

 

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? If you want change, work at it (And not like Kastor).

 

Second statement, that's fine. I'm not opposed to that. I'm merely pointing that out to show that your ideas will form into a hegemonic one, just like how the beginning of Syndicate, Guardian, and Mensa led to where we're at now.

Haven't you heard the old adage "If they cannot beat you, join them."?

One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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I'm pretty sure for them they didn't think the odds looked good. I don't think Paragon went in thinking Proxy was a sure win, for instance and Keegoz has indicated as such. I'm pretty sure people leading those alliances at the time didn't think they had a massive advantage going in since they knew who they were fighting. The odds weren't as long for you as you're describing. I'm not robbing them of agency and they all knew about those structural disadvantages.

The proxy war was the one were rose hit tS and they fought 1v1? Lmfao dude, the amount of shit talking that came from Rose that war at the beginning was hilarious. They were positive they were going to win in the beginning.

6XmKiC2.png

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One of these days, someone is going to figure out if we're laughably incompetent to the point of never being a serious threat to global hegemoney, or we're secretly some kind of beast mode superpower creating all kinds of political side effects that disrupt the game as a whole. Good luck to that someone that figures out how to create a model that doesn't include both at the same time.

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No one is claiming that you have the intention on forming some dominating hegemoney.  However, people are certainly not buying the whole "We're not forming a hegemoney" bit either.

 

In all honesty, I don't think anyone really cares if you want to form a hegemoney or not.  It's just a matter of calling people's bullshit out for argument's sake on these forums.

 Some of the earlier posts indicated otherwise, that because NPO is an entity that people think wants to dominate everything that we'd do it. It's come up in several threads. Like Manthrax said I've tried to avoid bringing up otherwolrdly stuff, but the constant references make it difficult.

 

 

The proxy war was the one were rose hit tS and they fought 1v1? Lmfao dude, the amount of shit talking that came from Rose that war at the beginning was hilarious. They were positive they were going to win in the beginning.

 To  be honest, my own perspective will be colored by being the directly hit party in several instances and having a bad situation from day one and just having to hope x, y,z would pull through. I would also think that Rose didn't know that BK would go the other way, which is why I said the forecast was better before that and going off what Keegoz  and the deputy war guysaid.

 

 

 

Rose did.

 

I'll be happy to see you put that to the test against tS and Mensa then. :) That's the only way we'll know for sure.

 

Jokes aside, like I said, I don't think Rose was as bad as people describe and most of the people you guys describe as the good fighters in the dream team topic were good fighters before.

Edited by Roquentin
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Respect to Roq for being able to keep up arguments against the circle jerk of the git gud squad, Im personally waiting for individual war stats of the entire war so far.

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Officer Nasty reporting for duty. 

 

 

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>actually believing IQ is trying to create a hegemoney.

 

We're literally trying to do the exact opposite. We're making the game interesting again and you're holding grudges over us. Respect our desire to actually have an interesting political landscape, unlike the last few months where syndisphere chooses who to roll next, with no repercussions.

 

 

Respect to Roq for being able to keep up arguments against the circle jerk of the git gud squad, Im personally waiting for individual war stats of the entire war so far.

 

I mean. You could try and help him instead of just characterizing the counters to his arguments as a "circle jerk?" :P

 

I've quoted your other post, since it was the only other time you commented, and it's really weak. "Syndisphere chooses who to roll next with no reprocussions" doesn't make a lick of sense. What do you even mean, there? The only lopsided war you you can try to lay at Syndisphere's feet imo is Test. The last two major wars they were on defense. Test was a dogpile in a numbers sense, but it was actually fair in the upper tier. And anyone who knew Pre knew as soon as he got hit (or even before) he'd have attacked with whatever capacity he had, so the sledgehammer approach was pretty much the only feasible one.

 

Most of the others they actually should have lost, including this one, but the other side's made really glaring tactical errors. You can make a interesting political landscape without doing a lot of the things you're getting criticized for, and chose not to. Imo you should own that decision rather than complaining that people who are pointing out those criticisms are a circle jerk.

Edited by Spaceman Thrax
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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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