BK recognition of hostilities

[Cheedows]

I guess it's easy to embrace winning when you don't even bother fighting.

[Best Leader]

I guess it's easy to embrace winning when you don't even bother fighting.

 

Big talk for someone who got zeroed the first day.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Best Leader

[Biel]

Hi c: Bk ruls

Edited April 15, 2017 by Biel

[Tiber]

Alright guys...calm down. BK apologizes profusely for doing anything, and we now see it would have been much better to sit around doing nothing.

 

In an attempt to correct what we have done, I would like to be the first to suggest an Orbis-wide NAP to be signed after this war wraps up. We can of course exclude an alliance or two so that we have someone to roll every once in a while, but it should still be sufficient to make the game stagnant.

[Eumirbago]

Alright guys...calm down. BK apologizes profusely for doing anything, and we now see it would have been much better to sit around doing nothing.

 

In an attempt to correct what we have done, I would like to be the first to suggest an Orbis-wide NAP to be signed after this war wraps up. We can of course exclude an alliance or two so that we have someone to roll every once in a while, but it should still be sufficient to make the game stagnant.

 

"We lied to you about having proof that you were going to roll us. We actually didn't and we found out the hard way of how much we weren't prepared for this war. Have pity on us."

[Vladamir Putin]

As a newer player, i don't even understand how much i don't understand about what's going on.

[Buorhann]

Blah, I had a big post typed out and lost it.  !@#$ it.  The important people know where Mensa stands in this mess.

[Flame of the Flawed]

That's a valid point, Chaunce, and I will say that tS (or at least Zed, who I primarily spoke to there) was the most willing to hear out our position. Unfortunately, as the tone of much of the comments here suggest, others weren't as open to the idea of change and we didn't think any proposal to do so would achieve a favourable consensus from the sphere as a whole (as proved to be the case). So we opted to act first and then work to ease concerns afterward. Obviously, that didn't work out

Thing is, it looks like they already tried to pursue something before this and it didn't go so well.

 

So if everyone else in Syndisphere wanted to keep it together forever, then there is no other logical move, as wanting to do something different will necessitate an alternative allybase. I don't see how it's any different from Syndicate splitting from Paragon and building its sphere with Guardian and Mensa while having the OO alliances as MDs/prots.

 

The other main players had all the time in the world to make changes. In fact, many people resented BK but when it became clear it wasn't BK that was keeping the same dynamic going despite our direct confrontations, it was a natural fit.

 

Curu, at least for me, this is more the key for the disappointment. To my knowledge, outside of the earlier informal touch-points on the issue of sphere split that occurred right before the DONG WARS, where the consensus was that we understood there was a very good chance it would happen and we would make sure it was transparent and amiable if it did, t$ was never approached about any serious plan or desire to get the process formally started. My disappointment is that it seems you didn't trust us in what we had said on the matter. Once again, to my knowledge based on what I've learned since then, all discussions were limited internally to OO (I'm not sure about CS, and from what we were told the Chola segment of Zodiac didn't know either). I can assure you that if you had came to t$ and made it clear to us your deep dissatisfaction with the status quo, we would have worked with you. We are each other's oldest treaty partners. We wouldn't have ignored your concerns. I think Mensa would have listened too, along with other alliances. Also to my knowledge, the disagreement with TKR seems to be based on how such a split would occur rather than a split itself, though I'm not fully privy to those details (I know you viewed it as untenable). I'll reiterate though, I'm confident we could have worked out a dynamic sphere shift to Orbisian politics, rather than as Thrax has pointed out, just a structural shifting of the status quo which we now have. 

 

Also, I think the idea of easing concerns for something you intended to do either way does somewhat validate the concerns others have shared in this thread. 

 

And Roq, if your assumption was correct, then I'd agree completely. There would be no other logical move. But I think that the assumption is incorrect, as I stated above. As for Paragon, that is a whole different discussion we can get into somewhere else There are similarities there but also very large differences. That would be a major derailing though, but feel free to hit me up on discord if you'd like to chat about it.

[Buorhann]

Yes, Mensa would've listened to it.  I straight up told Curu why we were upset.  If you're straight with Mensa, Mensa will be straight with you.  If we're not completely straight with you, then obviously something got !@#$ed up.

[Sans]

 Also to my knowledge, the disagreement with TKR seems to be based on how such a split would occur rather than a split itself, though I'm not fully privy to those details (I know you viewed it as untenable).

 

Ya pretty much, we were aware of the potential for stagnation as much as the next guy. We just didn't want to have to choose between Syndisphere and OO, which is exactly what was suggested. Something more comprehensive rather than just a shift that would see us on opposing us allied to folks we have no business being allied to and rolling folks we were with since our inception. That apparently was not a reservation that was shared. 

[Eumirbago]

I guess it's easy to embrace winning when you don't even bother fighting.

 

It is easy to embrace when you're undefeated. I have clapped more ass than your puny nation can. Stay at 0. You are worthless to your cause.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Jacob Moore

[Kemal Ergenekon]

I, for one, am enjoying this war. I also thought that Syn-OO had to break up somehow for the game to survive. That is not an issue here.

 

The issue is that BK did not have the decency to cancel the MDP they had with us before the attack. That's just cowardly.

 

That is all.

[Guest Curufinwe]

I was thinking of mostly CKD. Which is a 50 person alliance. They've entered for you, as opposed to their other 4 protectorates from earlier, so I think it's a fair point that you were extending your treaty base.

 

Again. The dynamism? I just don't think it's as much as you think it was. You guys joined Paracov, everyone stared at each other for a while and signed a bunch of treaties, then war. You'd have accomplished the same thing better by dropping treaties at the same time (IE: the ones you had no intention of actually honouring), but I guess you were too risk averse?

 

Risk aversion and dynamism are mutually exclusive, imo.

Actually when we signed CKD they were quite small and the connection was based more on friendship than any strategic consideration, since Shifty moved over there to assume a governmental role. If we were just signing people for the sake of signing people would have agreed to protect WU as well, since Hidude did approach me about the prospect of BK doing so. The fact that they would later merge with WU (which did have a fairly large member base) certainly wasn't obvious at the time, so it's not really a good example of us intentionally expanding our treaty base. I do agree that they're pretty great allies though

 

As for your second point, we didn't join Para-cov (considering Rose allied Mensa that's kinda hard to do), NPO (which was never part of either Covenant or Paragon) joined IQ. BK didn't (and hasn't) signed paper with any former Para-cov AA at this time.

 

shitposting

shitposting

shitposting

With that in mind, feel free to resume shitposting.

I was only going to do it once, but your prolific shitposting deserves proper recognition

 

 

 

Ya pretty much, we were aware of the potential for stagnation as much as the next guy. We just didn't want to have to choose between Syndisphere and OO, which is exactly what was suggested. Something more comprehensive rather than just a shift that would see us on opposing us allied to folks we have no business being allied to and rolling folks we were with since our inception. That apparently was not a reservation that was shared.

 

So you were aware of the potential for stagnation, but you didn't want to "choose" (i.e. take any measures to ameliorate it) and instead opted to do nothing. I'd say that sums up TKR FA for the past few months pretty well, actually. Thank you for laying it out so neatly.

 

 

 

I, for one, am enjoying this war. I also thought that Syn-OO had to break up somehow for the game to survive. That is not an issue here.

 

The issue is that BK did not have the decency to cancel the MDP they had with us before the attack. That's just cowardly.

 

That is all.

You're welcome - saving Politics and War from itself isn't an easy task, but we'll do our best. Edited April 16, 2017 by Curufinwe

[Sargun]

You're welcome - saving Politics and War from itself isn't an easy task, but we'll do our best.

 

Alright baby girl, you can't even save your alliance from this war, what makes you think you can save the game?

Edited April 16, 2017 by Sargun

[Guest Curufinwe]

shitposting

With that in mind, feel free to resume your shitposting.

There's a special one just for you, but only because you're my second favorite former Herald of the People (I only know two).

[Spaceman Thrax]

Actually when we signed CKD they were quite small and the connection was based more on friendship than any strategic consideration, since Shifty moved over there to assume a governmental role. If we were just signing people for the sake of signing people would have agreed to protect WU as well, since Hidude did approach me about the prospect of BK doing so. The fact that they would later merge with WU (which did have a fairly large member base) certainly wasn't obvious at the time, so it's not really a good example of us intentionally expanding our treaty base.

 

Not really. You upgraded them from protectorate after that merge.

 

Between that, Chola merging into BoC, and adding NPO you're not really convincing me you weren't expanding your base of nations in the range you guys actually fight in. And you dropped no one.

 

Edit: I mean, it's a way to play. Rock on. It's just not a game changing, risky move like some of your people seem to think.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Spaceman Thrax

[Sargun]

There's a special one just for you, but only because you're my second favorite former Herald of the People (I only know two).

 

No amount of projection can save you from knowing you'll never be as good as Yoso or Strum.

[Eumirbago]

I have a messiah complex

 

I have a messiah complex

 

Time to come down with the rest of your kind.

[Smith]

Actually when we signed CKD they were quite small and the connection was based more on friendship than any strategic consideration, since Shifty moved over there to assume a governmental role. If we were just signing people for the sake of signing people would have agreed to protect WU as well, since Hidude did approach me about the prospect of BK doing so. The fact that they would later merge with WU (which did have a fairly large member base) certainly wasn't obvious at the time, so it's not really a good example of us intentionally expanding our treaty base. I do agree that they're pretty great allies though

 

Considering Zodiac had offered them a protectorate there was really no need for you to do that. You had already incorporated them into your budding sphere

Edited April 16, 2017 by Simple Smith

[Amaryllis]

No amount of projection can save you from knowing you'll never be as good as Yoso or Strum.

Huh, I thought he at least surpassed Strum. Yoso, well those are big paws to fill

Edited April 16, 2017 by Amaryllis

[Sans]

So you were aware of the potential for stagnation, but you didn't want to "choose" (i.e. take any measures to ameliorate it) and instead opted to do nothing. I'd say that sums up TKR FA for the past few months pretty well, actually. Thank you for laying it out so neatly.

 

 

 Heh, nice try spin doctor. Not going with BK's option ie choose OO over Syndisphere and destroy half our allies is not equal to not wanting to take steps to keep the game interesting. We just wanted a comprehensive change that involved all of our allies. You know, instead of plotting behind their backs. We were so busy trying to convince BK to stop looking at it as us vs them for the longest time, I guess you just broke and decided to say just !@#$ it. Ayy lmaos may only be capable of linear thought :/

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

Wooh, CKD has been upgraded in relevancy to pawn status.

 

Yeee boi. We at least have a cameo in arguments.

[LordStrum]

Huh, I thought he at least surpassed Strum.

I'm hurt

[Amaryllis]

I'm hurt

It's not like I don't love you anymore.

[Guest Curufinwe]

Not really. You upgraded them from protectorate after that merge.

 

Between that, Chola merging into BoC, and adding NPO you're not really convincing me you weren't expanding your base of nations in the range you guys actually fight in. And you dropped no one.

 

Edit: I mean, it's a way to play. Rock on. It's just not a game changing, risky move like some of your people seem to think.

We upgraded them at their request. Besides, it made sense to do so once they reached the top 20 - BK has generally bumped partners once they reach a certain critical mass in score and membership. tS did the same with BK and TKR, so it's hardly an uncommon practice. We would have done so regardless of our position in the treaty web at the time given their interest in continuing their tie with us.

 

shitposting

increasingly autistic shitposting

Sargun a Eumir multi confirmed? That would explain so much...

 

Considering Zodiac had offered them a protectorate there was really no need for you to do that. You had already incorporated them into your budding sphere

Well actually Zodiac didn't exist at the time and BoC opted to sign its ODP with them after its formation. Our decision not to offer protection took place when Hidude was first getting WU set up, which occured prior to any discussion of BoC forging a tie with them.

 

Huh, I thought he at least surpassed Strum. Yoso, well those are big paws to fill

*updates dossier*

 

Heh, nice try spin doctor. Not going with BK's option ie choose OO over Syndisphere and destroy half our allies is not equal to not wanting to take steps to keep the game interesting. We just wanted a comprehensive change that involved all of our allies. You know, instead of plotting behind their backs. We were so busy trying to convince BK to stop looking at it as us vs them for the longest time, I guess you just broke and decided to say just !@#$ it. Ayy lmaos may only be capable of linear thought :/

Indeed, TKR's FA proposals were both bold and innovative during that time.

...

...

...

What were they again? I can't seem to recall you actually making any. I guess the fact that you thought about thinking about maybe someday doing stuff is pretty much the same though. I retract my criticisms of your FA and applaud your decisive nature.

 

Wooh, CKD has been upgraded in relevancy to pawn status.

 

Yeee boi. We at least have a cameo in arguments.

You'll always have a cameo in my heart, Shifty.