Mensa recognition of hostilities

[Kazimierz the Great]

Well !@#$. Have fun.

[Sisyphus]

K. Apparently Mensa need help.

I didn't realise there was an "only if Mensa needs help" clause in their treaty...

[Zoot]

 

thank god for chrome extensions

 

Hey! That's cheating!  

[Alveron]

So your entire logic is, your other mutual treaties are invalidated by your bloc?

 

my entire logic is: wow these guys are really easy to b8.

[Sargun]

Hey! That's cheating!

 

alternative facts

[Tevron]

my entire logic is: wow these guys are really easy to b8.

It was just a prank dude.

[Zoot]

alternative facts

I'll show you alternative facts!

[Alveron]

It was just a prank dude.

[WISD0MTREE]

*Looks at Mensa's wars*

Hmm. Yep, at war with Zodiac.

*Looks at BK's alliance page*

Yep, still in a bloc with Zodiac.

Bloc > MDP. Ergo, BK should not defend the enemy of an alliance within BK's Bloc.

Wait is SK in the bloc too? I think I'm missing something here...

Treaties of allies > Your own treaties

You're an interesting fellow.

I'm with you Caz. I've been in blocs, the thinking process they're describing is not how blocs should operate. If anyone stands by that kind of statement their political capital will be burned to a crisp even if they manage to pull off a win. There's no reason to sign a Mutual defense treaty if it is now optional when direct attacks are made. A mutual defense pact recognizes an attack on your treaty partner as an attack on yourself meant to be met by your own military might. 

 

^ this is u

Let me put this in terms you might understand. MDP = Acquaintances. MDoAP = Friends. Bloc = BFFs. BFFs come before Friends, Friends come before Acquaintances.

Our BFF is at war with our Acquaintance. It doesn't matter who else it at war with them, because our BFF is fighting the Acquaintance, BK is not going to defend the Acquaintance as doing so would inherently make the Acquaintance better able to fight our BFF.

that's not how it works though

your treaties don't have languages showing any of this, instead you have language with mandatory defense clauses

if you don't want to honor your treaties just !@#$ say so, don't do any of this bullshit "acquaintances". no, it's not an acquaintance. it's a MUTUAL DEFENCE PACT.  if you don't feel like honoring them, just cancel them, don't play this bullshit game.

Let me say it before the paperless alliances do. 

 

P A P E R

A

P

E

R E P A P

 

JET ATTACKS CAN'T MELT STEEL PAPER, SHEEPY DID 4/13/17

 

We tried to warn you. Why does nobody listen? 

 

 

The problem with treaties is time, in my opinion. Usually in the phases leading up to signing a treaty the activity between alliances is very high, one side is typically courting the other in a manner of speaking. Once the treaty is signed there's a honeymoon period where everything is great and you're talking. Then a few months in your like an old married couple who only seem to talk to one another when there's a fight about to happen. The romance is dead. 

-Prefontaine

[TellUrGrlThx]

 

It warms my heart to see we still have some loyal allies in BK! Looking forward to the assist!

[Valdoroth]

You hold no treaty with SK,but you do hold one with Mensa. Doing harm to Mensa is certainly not in the spirit of your treaty, whereas doing harm to SK would in fact, alleviate some of their problems I'm sure.

 

I mean I may be on drugs here, but I'm pretty sure BK & T$ (The alliances against NPO) both had non-aggression clauses with TKR at the time, whereas............. Woah, SK and BK do not

Got another strawman for me to slay?

Apparently someone doesn't know about WWI in real world history.

 

When you get stuck on only visible politics, you don't understand the real politics that actually happen.

 

To be stuck only on face-front politics is boring and less exhilarating than working in the shadows. Pipe up and explore more.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Valdoroth

[Sargun]

Let me say it before the paperless alliances do. 

 

I am paperless, babe, nice try tho

[Mikey]

I'm sure BK will show up to help Mensa around the same time TKR shows up to defend NPO from their first time Its not exactly the first time this sort of thing has happened. Its fair play to point out that, in the face of the current conflict, certain mutual treaties seem a lot less relevant. But BK are hardly historically alone in this situation.

[WISD0MTREE]

I am paperless, babe, nice try tho

Alright, let me rephrase that. 

 

Let me say it before the hardcore paperless alliances do.

[Kastor]

So TKR used the same argument that BK is doing. You never defended NPO.

[Tevron]

So TKR used the same argument that BK is doing. You never defended NPO.

 

I'm sure BK will show up to help Mensa around the same time TKR shows up to defend NPO from their first time Its not exactly the first time this sort of thing has happened. Its fair play to point out that, in the face of the current conflict, certain mutual treaties seem a lot less relevant. But BK are hardly historically alone in this situation.

 

Strawman baby, refer to my prior post before parroting something already said and responded to.

 

 

Apparently someone doesn't know about WWI in real world history.

 

When you get stuck on only visible politics, you don't understand the real politics that actually happen.

Is this a joke? Politics is literally everything. This is politics too. Paper is politics. Betrayal is politics. Honor is politics. We can BS about it all day if you want, but glazing it over with proverbs for kids aint doing you justice.

 

 

Alright, let me rephrase that. 

 

Let me say it before the hardcore paperless alliances do.

I think you make a good point. Treaties are worthless if the alliances lack the honor to back them. That's why you sign treaties with people who have backbones, and not cowards who are afraid to fight people they have no connection to (in order to  protect their allies.) If they were not willing to stand for them, they should never have signed the treaty or they should have cancelled it. It speaks volumes to the competence of an FA department that can't recognize the PR nightmare they create in their wake by not cancelling before a war if they have no desire to honor any treaties.

[TellUrGrlThx]

Guys our relationship with BK is much stronger and better than what BK and NPO's relationship was during that conflict. I'm very confident they will be assisting us with SK. We obviously didn't ask them to help with Zodiac who is a direct ally of them and we understand the treaty dance of that situation just like we ignored their attack on our ally Rose. Of course we will be looking to help BK with Pantheon once our situation with SK and Zodiac allows us to. We hope Dio guides us both to lead us both to victory against the evil/sad menace that is SK.

[WISD0MTREE]

I think you make a good point. Treaties are worthless if the alliances lack the honor to back them. That's why you sign treaties with people who have backbones, and not cowards who are afraid to fight people they have no connection to (in order to  protect their allies.) If they were not willing to stand for them, they should never have signed the treaty or they should have cancelled it. It speaks volumes to the competence of an FA department that can't recognize the PR nightmare they create in their wake by not cancelling before a war if they have no desire to honor any treaties.

That is not at all what I was saying. When you have a web that looks like it belongs in the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, then situations arise where you would have to attack your own allies. I'm not getting involved as to who has a treaty with who, but all of this confusion could've been avoided. Everyone is giving treaties like a hooker gives BJs. And, you're correct that treaties aren't worth shit when people don't honor them. It just gets hard when you are obligated to support both Pakistan and India, both North and South Korea. We warned against the treaty web growing to cause this. 

 

PaW's Current Treaty Web

[Tiber]

How conflicting treaties are viewed has come a long way since that UPN treaty we used to have, evidently. I guess it gets viewed differently when it isn't working in your favor.

[Harrison Richardson]

It's okay, SK's score is dropping like a rock even without you guys.

[Tevron]

That is not at all what I was saying. When you have a web that looks like it belongs in the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, then situations arise where you would have to attack your own allies. I'm not getting involved as to who has a treaty with who, but all of this confusion could've been avoided. Everyone is giving treaties like a hooker gives BJs. And, you're correct that treaties aren't worth shit when people don't honor them. It just gets hard when you are obligated to support both Pakistan and India, both North and South Korea. We warned against the treaty web growing to cause this. 

 

PaW's Current Treaty Web

Except it isn't a problem of NK vs SK or Pakistan vs India. It's like NATO vs USSR, and someone is treatied to both. They can fight on both sides if they want and never touch an ally of their own. They just choose not to because they lack the stones or the foresight to make pragmatic decisions either before the conflict or thereafter.

[WISD0MTREE]

Except it isn't a problem of NK vs SK or Pakistan vs India. It's like NATO vs USSR,

 

and someone is treatied to both. They can fight on both sides if they want and never touch an ally of their own. They just choose not to because they lack the stones or the foresight to make pragmatic decisions either before the conflict or thereafter.

Whatever floats your battleship. 

 

Sounds like they, like most of Orbis, lack the foresight to make FA decisions regarding treaties. 

[Josh Freer]

 

It warms my heart to see we still have some loyal allies in BK! Looking forward to the assist!

Who is this yosodog in the message?

[Buorhann]

I like how this literally went above everybody's heads who's busy arguing this out.

 

Yosodog, you still have my heart.  You'll be my Romeo while our families are at conflict with each other.

[BeachBunny]