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t$ Foreign Affairs Update: Viridia Update


Zed
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>plots to betray an ally because I'm just a piece of shit person and I'm totally cool with it

>plot has been going on for a long ass time so it's obviously been well discussed

>get couped because I'm a piece of shit who wanted to use and betray an ally

>plot gets log dropped

>"Hey that !@#$ who couped me didn't even let us discuss it!"

 

ok fam enjoy the outcome

 

Also I assume everyone who is defending you guys and is in your alliance are all chill with being shitty allies who don't value treaties or obligations at all, right?

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Priest of Dio


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This is going to be an incredibly weak cb in my mind if that is what you are going for.

 

Let's see

 

1) It doesn't even look like Seeker was taking himself overly seriously in those logs

2) Olorin looking more and more like a tS puppet, "Would tS let us do that" :/

3) It clearly wasn't going to even remotely happen if 2 Triums in those logs literally seemingly say no to it

 

This doesn't even justify the coup in my mind. Maybe you could argue the removal of Seeker from office but the coup of all gov members and to ban Seeker? lmao

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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I wonder what happened to all those 'I stand with the legitimate VE gov' people now? Wonder how strong they think their ties with TVE are... 

Still here bby and immune to your weak witch hunt and weak cb.

[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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You haven't learned, have you?

 

 

EDIT:

 

Also lol if you think that's all there is.

Enlighten us.

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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If tS wants to drop their treaty with VE that is their right.  I respect that.  

 

however it seems to me that people are confusing tjeir terms here. 

 

People are calling "betrayal" what when I read it sounds like a realpolitik discussion

 

realpolitik definition =

  1. a system of politics or principles based on practical rather than moral or ideological considerations.

Aha! So this is what tore VE apart from within. VE signed tS as a sham, intending to betray them. But not all its government members agreed, and perhaps its members were uninformed. Do we assume that those who have fled to TVE are now informed and on board? 

 

i've read through the dumped logs, although Seeker says some things that are not all warm and fuzzy, the entire discussion is put in terms of possible action is "if" X then maybe Y.   I'm sure every alliance leader has "what if" discussions.  If every time one said something less than kind got put on the open world forum during those conversations it would be an interesting read but no treaties would be signed.

 

Incorrect, To my knowledge, Only trium knew of this.

Regardless, It is not a reason to coup a government.

So the conversation was one not meant for anyone but Trium.

 

this brings me to the definition of betrayal

 

noun
noun:
the action of betraying one's country, a group, or a person; treachery.
 
The group belonged to by all 3 Trium's is VE,

 


 

So which is the lesser evil then?

 

Between realpolitik and betraying one's alliance by sharing logs with people who were not part of the conversation and not in the alliance?  Realpolitik is the lesser evil.

 

I wasn't aware spit balling ideas that never came to take shape in any form gives ground for couping an alliance.  Nobody knew about this besides the trium where this log came from and the fact that Olorin feels the need to result to log dumping talks within a trium channel speaks volu

This is one, among many things that have been discussed in terms of our future FA path.  I didn't imagine someone that I trusted as a leader would not only coup the government but proceed to log dump myself and bring discredit to our alliance as a whole.

 

I'm guessing, taking into account the fact that this comes as a result of an internal power struggle, Olorin is not about to state anything he has that makes the others look good or probably not anything that makes him look bad.

You can tell your alliance is good when someone signs it just to try and betray it afterwards. :wub:

 

 

This brings up an interesting question, what date(s) did this discussion take place?  I can't tell as "yesterday" or "today" on the time stamps as that could be any.  Is this a discussion before a treaty was signed?

 

I wonder what happened to all those 'I stand with the legitimate VE gov' people now? Wonder how strong they think their ties with TVE are... 

:D

 

The leaders are the representation of the alliance. When they mess up, the alliance messes up. It's difficult to judge an alliance based off a membership that log in twice daily and save for cities; there's not much to judge

 

so it's better to do so via log dumps from someone who clearly has an agenda he feels stronger about than anything else including making his own alliance look terrible? the one he claims he wants to lead

 

Indeed signing a M-level treaty and plotting to backstab your ally is indeed an interesting idea. 
tbh if I was leader of an AA and you did same with my alliance I would have posted those chat logs with a DoW. credit to t$ that they are still keeping their head cool and listening to your bs arguments. 

good thing you are not

 

We plan to, if need be.  The ball is in tVE's court right now.

 

tS decided to drop the treaty. tVE has no choice but to accept it.  ball is no loner in action.

Edited by Sylvia
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noun
noun
the action of betraying one's country, a group, or a person; treachery.
 
The group belonged to by all 3 Trium's is VE,

 

back-stabbing
noun
noun: backstabbing
  1. 1.
    the action of criticizing someone in a treacherous manner despite pretending friendship with them.
    "the media world of back-stabbing, scheming, and downright malice"
adjective
adjective: backstabbing
  1. 1.
    (of a person) engaging in back-stabbing; critical of other people despite pretending friendship with them.

     

     

     

    Do you know what friendship means ?? 

    What seeker did is betraying friendship of t$ and if it takes 5 long pages to understand god bless you then :) 

     

    Also interesting to see HBE leadership defending seekers action may be if people check those logs there will be parts were he planned to roll HBE as well. but again don't worry I am sure even if he did that there will be a lot of  ""if" X then maybe Y. "

     

    I mean these are all parts of "Realpolitik" isn't it ?? 

     

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back-stabbing
noun
noun: backstabbing
  1. 1.
    the action of criticizing someone in a treacherous manner despite pretending friendship with them.
    "the media world of back-stabbing, scheming, and downright malice"
adjective
adjective: backstabbing
  1. 1.
    (of a person) engaging in back-stabbing; critical of other people despite pretending friendship with them.

     

     

     

    Do you know what friendship means ?? 

    What seeker did is betraying friendship of t$ and if it takes 5 long pages to understand god bless you then :) 

     

    Also interesting to see HBE leadership defending seekers action may be if people check those logs there will be parts were he planned to roll HBE as well. but again don't worry I am sure even if he did that there will be a lot of  ""if" X then maybe Y. "

     

    I mean these are all parts of "Realpolitik" isn't it ?? 

     

 

tS has done the same in the past. A little hypocritical to get upset when someone does it to you.

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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back-stabbing
noun
noun: backstabbing
  1. 1.
    the action of criticizing someone in a treacherous manner despite pretending friendship with them.
    "the media world of back-stabbing, scheming, and downright malice"
adjective
adjective: backstabbing
  1. 1.
    (of a person) engaging in back-stabbing; critical of other people despite pretending friendship with them.

     

     

     

    Do you know what friendship means ?? 

    What seeker did is betraying friendship of t$ and if it takes 5 long pages to understand god bless you then :) 

     

     

Considering that I'm sticking up our friends in VE even when they are getting a great deal of shit from much of the world - yes, I do.

 

What Olorin did is betray the trust of his alliance mates and his fellow alliance leaders, the very people who he owes the most allegiance to.  In short, he's a traitor.  One's alliance mates should be above all others in terms of loyalty and friendship (and yes, that means above even the allies or potential allies of ones alliance).  This is the entire basis of the alliance system.  If Olorin was more loyal to some other alliance, he should of gone and become a member there. 

 

Again, I am not judging tS here.  They dropped the treaty.  That is their choice and I'm not being critical of it.   However it does not clear Olorin of wrongdoing in the slightest and I'm surprised to find that apparently some people think otherwise. 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

As far as how I would feel in a similar situation,  if there are any traitors out there who want to send us logs of their alliance leadership's private internal discussions because it has stuff about HBE in it that you think we might be interested in, please feel free to pass the logs to hadesflames at anytime.  Reading it will not hurt my feelings.  In fact,  I encourage the very realpolitik move of tattling on your former friends as long as it helps my friends and my allies.  Thank you.

Edited by Sylvia
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tS has done the same in the past. A little hypocritical to get upset when someone does it to you.

 

The only truth that can be extracted from your posts here is that you're biased. Neither side is without blame in this situation yet you seem to be set on making excuses for tVE, rationalizing your support for them while criticizing Olorin (and t$). It's clear that your point of view is not a reasonable one. I don't know what you want to achieve by doing this, it only hurts your credibility.

orwell_s_1984_oceania_s_currency_by_dungsc127_d97k1zt-fullview.jpg.9994c8f495b96849443aa0defa8730be.jpg

 

 

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tS has done the same in the past. A little hypocritical to get upset when someone does it to you.

 

I'd ask what you were referencing if I thought it was a legitimate criticism. Instead I'll point out that by your own logic, the hypocrisy of you criticizing the actions of government officials is pretty palpable.

Edited by Spaceman Thrax
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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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Calling me bias?

 

Just look at where your opinions are coming from. tS member, tS ally, tS ally, Former tS gov. Uh huh you guys aren't bias at all.

 

You know that time where Rose and tS were allied. It was paragon, you know what you did? You planned to roll tC with our help and then leave us once our use was done. We let you leave despite this and didn't support Impero/UPN pushing to go to war on you. We were rewarded with you allying our enemy at the time (Mensa) and then helped to roll our sphere.

 

If that isn't a stab in the back then I don't know what is?

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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Calling me bias?

 

Just look at where your opinions are coming from. tS member, tS ally, tS ally, Former tS gov. Uh huh you guys aren't bias at all.

 

You know that time where Rose and tS were allied. It was paragon, you know what you did? You planned to roll tC with our help and then leave us once our use was done. We let you leave despite this and didn't support Impero/UPN pushing to go to war on you. We were rewarded with you allying our enemy at the time (Mensa) and then helped to roll our sphere.

 

If that isn't a stab in the back then I don't know what is?

 

Well. I didn't say I wasn't biased, or that you were. What I said you're a hypocrite by your own logic, and I stand by that.

 

For the record you have a point about the Rose-t$ tie. Truth told? I didn't agree with it being signed, and I didn't agree with the way it was broken. That's history though (amusingly, we had a lot of chances to discuss it when we were both gov that you didn't really pick up on, as I recall :P), based on issues between t$/Rose that predated Paragon, involved an entirely different t$/Rose gov (hint, you're in his alliance now, hint :P), and Rose certainly had their chances to pay back the slight.

 

This is t$ being upset about plotting to hit their allies with a recently signed treaty as a shield. Different situation, imo.

Edited by Spaceman Thrax
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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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Just look at where your opinions are coming from. tS member, tS ally, tS ally, Former tS gov. Uh huh you guys aren't bias at all.

 

Of course we're going to have opinions on this matter.  We're directly involved now.

 

We haven't done jack shit to anybody for 4 months now (Well, unless you raided us, then you got a visit) and there's some plot against Syndicate and their Allies after they just signed?

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Well. I didn't say I wasn't biased, or that you were. What I said you're a hypocrite by your own logic, and I stand by that.

 

For the record you have a point about the Rose-t$ tie. Truth told? I didn't agree with it being signed, and I didn't agree with the way it was broken. That's history though (amusingly, we had a lot of chances to discuss it when we were both gov that you didn't really pick up on, as I recall :P), based on issues between t$/Rose that predated Paragon, involved an entirely different t$/Rose gov (hint, you're in his alliance now, hint :P), and Rose certainly had their chances to pay back the slight.

 

This is t$ being upset about plotting to hit their allies with a recently signed treaty as a shield. Different situation, imo.

Possibly but again I am not sure how seriously you can take them. I'm sure most govs have joked about crazy ideas before, I know I have. Without a lot of context it is hard to tell, does Seeker often joke about crazy ideas or was this his only one? If he does it all the time on different allies then is it really a threat? Its not like we are exactly experts in what happens in VE's high gov chats.

 

After working with Seeker this is one thing I can confirm so far. He is full of shit most the time. I don't really have a motive to defend him, it doesn't really affect me whether he gets rolled or not.

 

That's mostly where I am coming from here and I feel like a few commentators here are talking it up so when the cb is landed in a few days they feel like it is justified. I imagine we'll get more info if that cb is ever handed down as Buorhann said they had more. I'm never ashamed to say I am wrong but I can only comment on what I have seen. Just trying to add a bit more discussion to this topic, people take this game in too much of a black and white way.

[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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Possibly but again I am not sure how seriously you can take them. I'm sure most govs have joked about crazy ideas before, I know I have. Without a lot of context it is hard to tell, does Seeker often joke about crazy ideas or was this his only one? If he does it all the time on different allies then is it really a threat? Its not like we are exactly experts in what happens in VE's high gov chats.

 

After working with Seeker this is one thing I can confirm so far. He is full of shit most the time. I don't really have a motive to defend him, it doesn't really affect me whether he gets rolled or not.

 

That's mostly where I am coming from here and I feel like a few commentators here are talking it up so when the cb is landed in a few days they feel like it is justified. I imagine we'll get more info if that cb is ever handed down as Buorhann said they had more. I'm never ashamed to say I am wrong but I can only comment on what I have seen. Just trying to add a bit more discussion to this topic, people take this game in too much of a black and white way.

 

Can agree about the discussion/black and white thing. It's tedious when the discussion mirrors the war in a "giant blob one dislikes giant blob two" kind of way. :P

Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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Can agree about the discussion/black and white thing. It's tedious when the discussion mirrors the war in a "giant blob one dislikes giant blob two" kind of way. :P

Guys me and Manthrax agreed on something!

 

The world is going to end! :P

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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Man, one of these days it'd be super interesting to declare war on Seeker. I'd start off by running air attacks, to get rid of that air force of his he has. Then as soon as I had domination there and cut the tanks he can use, I'd turn around and take domination of his land forces, too. The crossarmed domination lock would give me a fairly straight forward path to victory. He'd probably bring his navy in and blockade me (I know I'm lazy with my ships), but I have good stockpiles and I don't really need to buy anything. It'd be over in a couple of days.

 

I'm just spitballing ideas of course, though, and formulate similar ideas about attacking all sorts of people. Wouldn't want to give anyone the wrong impression.

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Possibly but again I am not sure how seriously you can take them. I'm sure most govs have joked about crazy ideas before, I know I have. Without a lot of context it is hard to tell, does Seeker often joke about crazy ideas or was this his only one? If he does it all the time on different allies then is it really a threat? Its not like we are exactly experts in what happens in VE's high gov chats.

 

After working with Seeker this is one thing I can confirm so far. He is full of shit most the time. I don't really have a motive to defend him, it doesn't really affect me whether he gets rolled or not.

 

That's mostly where I am coming from here and I feel like a few commentators here are talking it up so when the cb is landed in a few days they feel like it is justified. I imagine we'll get more info if that cb is ever handed down as Buorhann said they had more. I'm never ashamed to say I am wrong but I can only comment on what I have seen. Just trying to add a bit more discussion to this topic, people take this game in too much of a black and white way.

 

Really? 'Joking about crazy ideas'? How stupid do you think we are? I'm sure TVE's leaders are scrambling for excuses or who knows what strategies to try to snow Orbis into believing that they were just spitballing cockamamie scenarios. But no one over here in reality is believing any of that bullshit any time soon.

 

It's pretty funny how much you and Impero have to contort yourselves here, given your previous indignation over SK's plotting to do essentially the same thing to Rose. No one and nothing could give you a sufficient excuse back then. 

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