Popular Post Ripper Posted April 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) Hello all. Recently, Arrgh was accused for in-game cheating at this thread. Of course, as many of you know, transferring an alliance bank to another or to a nation for safekeeping is not against the rules of the game. As Alex mentioned: (Seriously Alex? Safekeeping is “Unethical behavior� <.< ) This event, however, seems to have inspired other alliances. Although this “trick†is well known, there are those that decided to go a step further. A characteristic example is this of hadesflames, 1st Emperor of the Holly Britannian Empire (All hail Yui!), master of project/ business/ time/ risk and financial management and guru of scripts. For those who don’t know it, hades has created really helpful tools which players can use in order e.g. to run simulations regarding future city development projects they have in mind. All hail Logistics! o/ Since Arrgh and HBE always had a great relationship between them, Arrgh decided to present a riddle to hades to make him protect the bank and members of his alliance, so that he will be ready for the upcoming war (estimated to start any time soon in the next 6 months): how can you make raiders or an attacking alliance not profit at all? Of course, Arrgh had already given a hint to HBE about this, in Episode 14 of the P&W balls comics, depicting the signature of a MDP between NPO and HBE. The anti-looting plan the two alliances devised and the corresponding discussion that took place are presented below: 1. “Quickly, hide the bank!†aka “Thanks Captain Obvious†2. “Quickly, hide the nations’ production!†aka “Go full NPO!†3. “Quickly, hide the bank... QUICKLY†aka “Use BOTS for bank transferring†This is where the magic happens: by moving the alliance bank to a nation with a BOT at the very beginning of a turn, it is impossible to beige a nation fast enough to get bank loots. (By the way, if you are going to use this strategy, you don’t have to tell others where you actually hide the bank... <.< ) 4. “Quickly, hide the nations’ cash and loot†aka "Store everything to the bank" Well, to be honest, I don't really believe this has happened. Bluffs are part of the game. This could be done though. 5. “What if I get attacked? Quickly, send a war aid with a BOT!†The above strategy, especially when the 4th step is used, makes nations vulnerable, since in case of a blitz attack against the entire alliance, initiated by naval attacks for example, it would make it impossible for the nations to get back the war resources they sent to the bank (see step 4) in time or use any cash they have (step 2) to arm up. However, there is still a solution. If you use a BOT, you can send war aid to a nation depending on its size right after war is declared on it! Thus, the naval attack can be avoided. What if the nation holding the bank is attacked? Use a script to send the money back to the bank right when an enemy declared on you. Thus, the blockade will be avoided yet again and the bank will be safe. As hades mentioned, this is a trivial thing to do. 6. “Why should we stop there? It’s not against the rules!†The previous 5 steps make it impossible for an alliance to be raided, while enabling the nations to get the needed resources for defending on time. (Too bad Alex. Nerfing fortification to make it possible for the attackers to beige the opponent will be useless!) Anti-raiding policy at last is complete! (Well, you could always just tell to your nations to build a ship or two, but why would anyone bother playing the game?) My question though is: why should we stop there? We could use BOTS that, upon getting attacked, will destroy all production buildings on our cities, buy military buildings and buy max military. Wouldn’t this be great? There is so much room for automation! BOTS could follow the market prices and sell/build manufacturing buildings on their own, so that production/profit is optimized! Heck, we could even automate the procedure of sending funds, building cities and building projects! A nation would just have to join an alliance and just look at the screen, while his/her cities and armies are built by the alliance bots. Wouldn’t this be a lot of fun? It’s not against the rules... Arrgh is interested in starting to build the aforementioned tools, building on the experience of its members. You won't be getting our rum lads! Edited April 4, 2017 by Ripper 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchy Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Bank looting is a stupid and flawed mechanic and as a result its easily exploitable. I suggested that successful wars simply take a portion of a nations income for X amount of turns before tax, as it would remove any of the possible exploits. The only thing you could really do is reduce your own income out of spite and that hurts you too anyway. Plus with the other stupid and flawed mechanic called fortify, people can just avoid being beiged entirely. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Turgidson Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Sketchy, how can I unlike your comment, even if I didn't like it in the first place? 5 Quote Are you originally from Earth, too? Proud owner of Harry's goat. It's mine now. I now own MinesomeMC's goat, too. It's starting to look like a herd. Yep, it is a herd. Aldwulf has added his goat, too, and it ain't Irish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack3top Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Automated banking and transfer of money and or resource using bots should be banned too... otherwise next everything will be automated and it isnt even a game anymore... 4 Quote discussion before violence What I post do not represent the views of the alliance unless otherwise stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonK Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 This is a first, but I agree with Buck. Also who could have tough hades was such corrupt, bot-exploiting, cheating bastard. I know I did. That's why I had Arrgh protect his alliance for so long. Us criminals have to stick together. (Racketig money was just a bounus, having him bend the rules and exploit shit was the fun part). The main reason I dropped the contact except for obvius fact we couldn't really protect anyone, was fact he selfishly only used those benefits for himself, never sharing with rest of us while calling us immoral and what not on OWF. Karma is a !@#$, ain't it? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chidz Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Whether or nor it's the rules, I think it entirely ruins the spirit of the game. 6 Quote Each of us bears his own Hell - Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorne Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I haven't loved you more Ripper 2 Quote "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." ~ Prefontaine Pure Gold, ~KT chat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadesflames Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 p.s. BK automates bank transactions too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonK Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 A good fix would be to make bots that automatically send all resorces from nation, alliance bank to raider and delete nation. That way everyone is happy. Raiders get their dosh and pixel huggers get their ragequit without too much hassle. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabasstion Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 narcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack3top Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 A good fix would be to make bots that automatically send all resorces from nation, alliance bank to raider and delete nation. That way everyone is happy. Raiders get their dosh and pixel huggers get their ragequit without too much hassle. lol Quote discussion before violence What I post do not represent the views of the alliance unless otherwise stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I agree that this sorta thing isn't in the spirit of the game. There are aspects of this game I dislike but everyone has to put up with them. Putting a bot to try and circumnavigate mechanics is pretty much cheating in my eyes. I'll be interested to see how Sheepy responds. 4 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) I agree that this sorta thing isn't in the spirit of the game. There are aspects of this game I dislike but everyone has to put up with them. Putting a bot to try and circumnavigate mechanics is pretty much cheating in my eyes. I'll be interested to see how Sheepy responds. Following up on your comment Keegoz, I would like to make clear that, according to the current rules, no one is officialy cheating. Those that had worked on such projects have only my admiration for finding such exploits and optimizing their work while following the rules. I wouldn't accuse anyone like this who just find an opportunity to find an advantage for his/her alliance. That's why I added this thread here and not at the Technical Support or Reports section. Our duty as players of Orbis is to protect the game we are playing. So, it is our duty to find such exploits that could be used against its spirit. That's the only reason I presented all the above. Considering all these, it comes down to agreeing that indeed such bots (working on the actuation part rather than simple monitoring) should not be allowed. If this is the case, then the Game Rules have to be further expanded, without punishing any players. Edit: On a funny notice... XD Edited April 4, 2017 by Ripper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadesflames Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I would argue that the method Arrgh employs to raid is also contrary to the spirit of the game, which apparently makes it cheating. Normally there's supposed to be consequences to raiding. If you hit the wrong person you could face retaliation and have your units and infra destroyed. You can also face having 10% of all your infra destroyed on top of whatever else was bombed upon beiging as well has having your resources looted. However Arrgh circumvents all that by keeping their infra low and taking advantage of the fact it's impossible to beige someone that spams fortify, rendering their raids consequence free. In fact, it wasn't that long ago that DragonK was going all over the forums boasting about how there was nothing anyone can do to stop him and his raids. Funny that it's okay to go against the "spirit of the game" when it suits Arrgh, but when it actually takes away something from Arrgh, then it's bad and the rules need to change! This is in fact a direct response to the fact that there's no way to hurt Arrgh. Now there's no way for Arrgh to loot HBE. Have fun looting elsewhere. Edit: On a funny notice... XD It's not even remotely weird. By automating baseball, baseball can be farmed for very quick and easy profit. There's no way to gain anything from bank transactions or sending messages. Alex has been pretty clear about where automation should not be allowed so the only thing that's weird is this comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Freer Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 p.s. BK automates bank transactions too. It's not really automated when it still requires users to do stuff and actually approve transactions before they are sent 3 Quote Honour, Fury, Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) I would argue that the method Arrgh employs to raid is also contrary to the spirit of the game, which apparently makes it cheating. Normally there's supposed to be consequences to raiding. If you hit the wrong person you could face retaliation and have your units and infra destroyed. You can also face having 10% of all your infra destroyed on top of whatever else was bombed upon beiging as well has having your resources looted. However Arrgh circumvents all that by keeping their infra low and taking advantage of the fact it's impossible to beige someone that spams fortify, rendering their raids consequence free. In fact, it wasn't that long ago that DragonK was going all over the forums boasting about how there was nothing anyone can do to stop him and his raids. Funny that it's okay to go against the "spirit of the game" when it suits Arrgh, but when it actually takes away something from Arrgh, then it's bad and the rules need to change! This is in fact a direct response to the fact that there's no way to hurt Arrgh. Now there's no way for Arrgh to loot HBE. Have fun looting elsewhere. I see. Having to log-in everyday multiple times to avoid being beiged by three attackers from different alliances, trying to face the blockades and safekeep the resources, spending all this time to find targets and coordinate in order to make a profit besides the counters, organizing your cities in a way that you will not be bill-locked, adapting them depending on the enemy, having to accept others comments making fun of you for not having high score, having no allies around, choosing to actually fight wars instead of hiding behind treaties for months, waiting for the right time to build your cities... is NOT a sacrifice which we pay for our game-play? Seriously? That's what we do? Using an exploit without any trade-offs? If this is so hades, follow it. Since we cheat and make profits by exploiting the game, the rest alliances must be pretty naive not following our example. You see hades, you can underestimate our game-play as much as you want. However, our gameplay will never be as simple as the mainstream: building cities with high infra that has a return of investment of 2 or more months and signing 30 treaties to protect this infra. It must be reaaaaaaally hard to do that. We will consider following your example. Oh, and we will also add 100% taxes, so that our members not only won't be able to war on their own, but also won't be able to spend their money when they want, however they want. Keep being authoritarian and thinking that the Emperor and his bank is higher than the chance of the players to actually play the game. All hail! Edited April 4, 2017 by Ripper 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadesflames Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 the Emperor and his bank is higher than the chance of the players to actually play the game. All hail! We're finally on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) We're finally on the same page. Sure, on the same page and completely out of topic. My bad for being triggered and actually answering to you. So, can we get bots for maximizing military automatically upon attack? Edited April 4, 2017 by Ripper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zoot Posted April 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2017 p.s. BK automates bank transactions too. Dear Hades. Your pathetic attempt at deflecting would work so much better if it wasn't completely inaccurate. You see the BK bank module specifically DOES NOT automate any transaction. There is ALWAYS someone manually clicking a button. Which is why, when we discussed it with Sheepy, before we started using it, he said it was ok, because it does not play the game for us, it does not try to circumvent game mechanics. It is simply a front that simplifies things. If anyone is interested in learning more about the BK banking module then feel free to contact me, we have nothing to hide, but please lets not derail this topic with it. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadesflames Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) So, can we get bots for maximizing military automatically upon attack? Of course, but it'll cost you obviously. =) Edited April 4, 2017 by hadesflames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Popular Post Alex Posted April 4, 2017 Administrators Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2017 Looks like we need a captcha for every bank transaction now 8 Quote Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiber Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Looks like we need a captcha for every bank transaction now Wouldn't it be best to have a captcha on all pages just to make sure no one has an unfair advantage? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Captcha's should probably be added to sending messages so the spammers have a bit harder job as well 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonK Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Looks like we need a captcha for every bank transaction now Captcha's should probably be added to sending messages so the spammers have a bit harder job as well Called it But yeah if baseball and trade ahve it, no reason for bank not to have it. I get spammed in differnet way, well used to, now it's bluebear's turn to deal with spamms of that sort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 Captcha's should probably be added to sending messages so the spammers have a bit harder job as well Savage. o_O I wouldn't consider that part necessary. It's not overused and apart from an incident some days ago, there are no accidents with infinite messages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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