Dutch Election

[Rozalia]

Before I respond to this its important to make note of your other post.
 

We wouldn't need to shield it if people weren't constantly attacking the billion followers for the actions of like 20 at a time.

 
You like so many "shield" these people simply to be obstinate and virtue signal, that much is clear. Now on to what you said and to break this claim of yours that it is "20 people".
 

No, they absolutely don't have supremacy. I believe they're entitled to run their own schools and mosques.

Who has fear?

 
Conservative Muslims have supremacy in Muslim communities. To deny that is to deny reality. Liberal Muslims are a small minority which if any so happens to get any notoriety they will be labelled a Islamophobe too. For those who don't become well known? Made into outcasts and will have to live in fear of some loonies destroying their property or worse (which the police is castrated and toothless in dealing with, "racism" you see).

As for the schools and mosques... you really have no idea do you? First off we have gender segregation and it doesn't end there when it comes to their hatred of women. Then we have the racism with many of their schools teaching anti-Jew hatred (just anti-Jew if we're lucky I suppose). 
 
Utter ignorance. Apostates in Islam is a group that has it far worse than the Muslims as people like you treat the hell they have to go through if they are brave enough to publicly reject Islam as simply not existing. If you born as they say, "Muslim", then you are trapped. Sure you can be a weak "cultural" Muslim as some might call it but ultimately you have to abide by certain things and publically think in certain ways. If you reject Islam publicly then your family is likely to disown you at best (worst being beating/killing you) and you then will have to live in fear for the rest of your life because due to people like you infesting the public discourse no one wants to help them have religious freedom. 
 

We're bombing (at last count on my part) like seven Muslim countries at any given time.
 
Because they're allowed to believe whatever crazy shit they want as long as it doesn't affect others. Islam doesn't (unless you want to count fractions of fractions of people as representatives of Islam). The right kills a lot more people than Muslims in the US.

 
Utterly irrelevant comment. Most countries experiencing (worse) issues with them than the US have zero to do with such matters. 
 
Affects Apostates for one. Affects children brought up being taught that segregation and racism are okay.

 

I think we're pretty much on the same page in regard to Islam. I do have sort of disgust towards the violent and troubling parts of Islam.

 

However, we have quite different views regarding our approach towards Islam. You seem to like going hard against Islam and Muslims in particular. While I'd rather go soft and have sort of discussions with them regarding the troubling aspects of Islam. I believe we can finally push many Muslim scholars to renounce many troubling aspects of Islam. But first, we should be able to sit together with them and discuss these matters, rather than isolating and ignoring them from any public discourses that might help us renounce many troubling aspects of Islam.

 

I think we're at least a decade past that at this point. The problem is larger and more dug in at this point. 

 

Islam is a religion that enjoys a very large retention of its followers. Some Muslims like Ibrahim if you ever see him on Discord will tell you that such a thing is because Islam is just that awesome. In reality there is millions of Muslims across the world who are Apostates. Some reject it totally while others want a more Liberal Islam... they either play along with the Conservatives or will be given very bad times even here in the west where we fail them completely and in Muslim countries... well... you're going to end up as entertainment on the chopping block. 

 

That right there is the key to solving this whole mess as I've said. For that to happen there needs to be a very public show of force to begin with. Take some Apostates who have been getting shafted since forever and get the police to help them heavily, round up the Muslims causing troubles and give them heavy sentences for hate crimes and whatever else they can be charged with. Publicly make mention of the problem with hate crimes against Apostates, Jews, and whoever else, state that it ends now and thereby force the Muslim leaders out there to address it at last. 

[Geronimo]

We're bombing (at last count on my part) like seven Muslim countries at any given time.

 

Because they're allowed to believe whatever crazy shit they want as long as it doesn't affect others. Islam doesn't (unless you want to count fractions of fractions of people as representatives of Islam). The right kills a lot more people than Muslims in the US.

 

Welp, you tried to alter the focus of our discussion here. I'll address the issue you brought up above but first I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier, does criticizing Islam consider as a form of attacks towards Islam and Muslims in particular?

 

I know that the US currently has a sort of terrible foreign policy. I completely agree that the US shouldn't act like the world police whatsoever and the US needs to stop its interventions in other countries' affairs. Also, to some extent, I agree that somehow horrendous US foreign policy does help breed the violence and extremism in the Muslim world. However, to put the blame solely on the US for the rising of violence and extremism in the Muslim world isn't a sort of discussion we should be going.

[Geronimo]

I think we're at least a decade past that at this point. The problem is larger and more dug in at this point. 

 

Islam is a religion that enjoys a very large retention of its followers. Some Muslims like Ibrahim if you ever see him on Discord will tell you that such a thing is because Islam is just that awesome. In reality there is millions of Muslims across the world who are Apostates. Some reject it totally while others want a more Liberal Islam... they either play along with the Conservatives or will be given very bad times even here in the west where we fail them completely and in Muslim countries... well... you're going to end up as entertainment on the chopping block. 

 

That right there is the key to solving this whole mess as I've said. For that to happen there needs to be a very public show of force to begin with. Take some Apostates who have been getting shafted since forever and get the police to help them heavily, round up the Muslims causing troubles and give them heavy sentences for hate crimes and whatever else they can be charged with. Publicly make mention of the problem with hate crimes against Apostates, Jews, and whoever else, state that it ends now and thereby force the Muslim leaders out there to address it at last. 

 

In my humble opinion, you're just going to ensure the reformation that supposedly takes place in Islam fail to happen by doing every single word of things you mentioned above. What you proposed above is going to scare the moderate Muslims, the vast majority group of Muslims that we need the most to reform Islam from within. They will likely align themselves with the radical or extremist ones should we implement your sorts of solutions to the matter.

 

The animosity towards each other becomes imminent, the cultural gap will be widened, and the clash of cultures will become inevitable, are these sorts of things you really want to see?

[ComradeMilton]

Before I respond to this its important to make note of your other post.

 

 

You like so many "shield" these people simply to be obstinate and virtue signal, that much is clear. Now on to what you said and to break this claim of yours that it is "20 people". I defend the astonishingly larger Muslim religion against people who condemn it for the actions of a very few.

 

 

Conservative Muslims have supremacy in Muslim communities. Perhaps some. To deny world.that is to deny reality. Liberal Muslims are a small minority which if any so happens to get any notoriety they will be labelled a Islamophobe too. For those who don't become well known? Made into outcasts and will have to live in fear of some loonies destroying their property or worse (which the police is castrated and toothless in dealing with, "racism" you see). Indonesia's filled with Muslims doing absolutely no harm and being the largest Islamic country in the world.

As for the schools and mosques... you really have no idea do you? First off we have gender segregation and it doesn't end there when it comes to their hatred of women. Then we have the racism with many of their schools teaching anti-Jew hatred (just anti-Jew if we're lucky I suppose). Orthodox Judaism maintains gender segregation too.We don't have any problem with them.

 

Utter ignorance. Apostates in Islam is a group that has it far worse than the Muslims as people like you treat the hell they have to go through if they are brave enough to publicly reject Islam as simply not existing. If you born as they say, "Muslim", then you are trapped. Sure you can be a weak "cultural" Muslim as some might call it but ultimately you have to abide by certain things and publically think in certain ways. If you reject Islam publicly then your family is likely to disown you at best (worst being beating/killing, ex you) and you then will have to live in fear for the rest of your life because due to people like you infesting the public discourse no one wants to help them have religious freedom. You're way overstating the rate of Salafists in the Muslim world who do things like that. They're tiny, do little harm except in countries where Islamic governance is so dominated that. 

 

 

 

Affects Apostates for one. Affects children brought up being taught that segregation and racism are okay.We do that in the US too.

 

 

I think we're at least a decade past that at this point. The problem is larger and more dug in at this point. 

 

Islam is a religion that enjoys a very large retention of its followers. Some Muslims like Ibrahim if you ever see him on Discord will tell you that such a thing is because Islam is just that awesome. In reality there is millions of Muslims across the world who are Apostates. Some reject it totally while others want a more Liberal Islam... they either play along with the Conservatives or will be given very bad times even here in the west where we fail them completely and in Muslim countries... well... you're going to end up as entertainment on the chopping block. 

 

That right there is the key to solving this whole mess as I've said. For that to happen there needs to be a very public show of force to begin with. Take some Apostates who have been getting shafted since forever and get the police to help them heavily, round up the Muslims causing troubles and give them heavy sentences for hate crimes and whatever else they can be charged with. Publicly make mention of the problem with hate crimes against Apostates, Jews, and whoever else, state that it ends now and thereby force the Muslim leaders out there to address it at last. So act against the Constitution, gotcha.

 

 

Welp, you tried to alter the focus of our discussion here. I'll address the issue you brought up above but first I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier, does criticizing Islam consider as a form of attacks towards Islam and Muslims in particular?

 

I know that the US currently has a sort of terrible foreign policy. I completely agree that the US shouldn't act like the world police whatsoever and the US needs to stop its interventions in other countries' affairs. Also, to some extent, I agree that somehow horrendous US foreign policy does help breed the violence and extremism in the Muslim world. However, to put the blame solely on the US for the rising of violence and extremism in the Muslim world isn't a sort of discussion we should be going.

Yeah, the UK shares some of the blame.

[Geronimo]

Yeah, the UK shares some of the blame.

 

What about Islam? Should it be held accountable for the chaos in the Muslim world and Middle East in particular?

[Vicente Martinez]

"The right kills more"

Do you really want to do that comparison?9/11 alone killed far more people than all these small,isolated right wing shootings.

[Vicente Martinez]

"Ultra Orthodox Jews"

You do realize that only a small fraction of Jews are Ultra Orthodox,right? Meanwhile gender segregationists subscribe to "mainstream" Islam

[ComradeMilton]

"The right kills more"

Do you really want to do that comparison?9/11 alone killed far more people than all these small,isolated right wing shootings.

Yes. Bush killed more than the number of dead from 9/11 in his little military disasters.

 

What about Islam? Should it be held accountable for the chaos in the Muslim world and Middle East in particular?

Nope. Most of the leaders have been secular.

 

"Ultra Orthodox Jews"

You do realize that only a small fraction of Jews are Ultra Orthodox,right? Meanwhile gender segregationists subscribe to "mainstream" Islam

I said Orthodox, not Ultra. There's plenty of them as they reproduce at crazy rates.

[Vicente Martinez]

That's not terrorism,that's war.So you want to compare,eh?Well going by statistics(since 2000) you'll quickly begin to see that Islamic terrorism is far more deadlier than any other form of terrorism,because 9/11 (judging by casualties,political repercussions,collateral damage,etc.) alone completely overshadows every single right wing terror attack that has happened since the beginning of the 21st century.

[ComradeMilton]

That's not terrorism,that's war.So you want to compare,eh?Well going by statistics(since 2000) you'll quickly begin to see that Islamic terrorism is far more deadlier than any other form of terrorism,because 9/11 (judging by casualties,political repercussions,collateral damage,etc.) alone completely overshadows every single right wing terror attack that has happened since the beginning of the 21st century.

Then we can add civilians killed in each war, estimated between 500,000 and 1,000,000.What we're doing with drones is absolutely terrorism, to say nothing of the Cuban terrorist we shelter from justice.

[Vicente Martinez]

Then we can add civilians killed in each war, estimated between 500,000 and 1,000,000.What we're doing with drones is absolutely terrorism, to say nothing of the Cuban terrorist

we shelter from justice.

Who TF was talking about wars? Don't try to deflect the subject. The drone program isn't "right wing terrorism" it's just another product of Obama's horrible foreign policy.Are you trying to say that Bush's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan,is terrorism? Edited March 20, 2017 by Vincent de Beer

[Vicente Martinez]

War

 

"War is a state of armed conflict between societies. It is generally characterized by extreme aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces. An absence of war is usually called "peace". Warfare refers to the common activities and characteristics of types of war, or of wars in general."

 

Terrorism

 

"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

[Rozalia]

In my humble opinion, you're just going to ensure the reformation that supposedly takes place in Islam fail to happen by doing every single word of things you mentioned above. What you proposed above is going to scare the moderate Muslims, the vast majority group of Muslims that we need the most to reform Islam from within. They will likely align themselves with the radical or extremist ones should we implement your sorts of solutions to the matter.

 

The animosity towards each other becomes imminent, the cultural gap will be widened, and the clash of cultures will become inevitable, are these sorts of things you really want to see?

 

You don't instil bravery in people if they continue to believe no one will support them if they speak out. Its crude but consider how many Jews would speak out about hatred against them in a Nazi state compared to one that has made clear it will protect them. Once those who have already left the faith and those who are ready to leave it (or at least profess a better version of Islam) the moment they consider it safe to do so know we are on their side then things will quickly change. Those "moderates" are Conservatives and I could not care less what they think. We need to support Apostates and Liberal Muslims (also Apostates to the Conservatives) against them and shatter their current supremacy.

 

I defend the astonishingly larger Muslim religion against people who condemn it for the actions of a very few.

 

Perhaps some.

 

Indonesia's filled with Muslims doing absolutely no harm and being the largest Islamic country in the world.

 

Orthodox Judaism maintains gender segregation too.We don't have any problem with them.

 

You're way overstating the rate of Salafists in the Muslim world who do things like that. They're tiny, do little harm except in countries where Islamic governance is so dominated that. 

 

We do that in the US too.

So act against the Constitution, gotcha.

 

Except Conservative Muslims are the large majority of Muslims and have supremacy. 

 

I see you have gone from "no they don't" to "okay but only some". They have supremacy in the west and that needs to go that much is clear. Conservatives can as far as I am concerned do what they like in Arabia. 

 

Indonesia does not have a law against apostasy, but has as a broad blasphemy law that protects all six official religions (Article 156) and a Presidential Decree (1965) that permits prosecution of people who commit blasphemy.[172] The Decree prohibits every Indonesian from “intentionally conveying, endorsing or attempting to gain public support in the interpretation of a certain religion; or undertaking religious based activities that resemble the religious activities of the religion in question, where such interpretation and activities are in deviation of the basic teachings of the religion.â€[173] These laws have been used to arrest and convict apostates in Indonesia, such as the case of 30-year old Alexander Aan who declared himself to be an atheist, declared “God does not existâ€, and stopped praying and fasting as required by Islam. He received death threats from Islamic groups and in 2012 was arrested and sentenced to two and a half years in prison.[174][175]

 

 

 

And Indonesia is your example of a nice Muslim country/people? 

 

Says who? Pure whataboutery too.

 

Again you misunderstand the situation so heavily. The problem are not the mad dog radicals as they are indeed a small tiny minority. The problem is the Conservatives who make up the majority who in many cases are no different to Radicals outside them believing they shouldn't personally get involved in killing (leave that to the Radicals).

 

Whataboutery again and an utterly stupid comment too. When many American schools are teaching that the Jew is the devil then get back to me.

 

Protecting citizens from hate crimes is against the Constitution apparently. You a KKK member or something? Sound like it. Literally what you have said. Arresting criminals and publicly denouncing such terrible acts is bad. Lunacy. 

[ComradeMilton]

Who TF was talking about wars? Don't try to deflect the subject. The drone program isn't "right wing terrorism" it's just another product of Obama's horrible foreign policy.Are you trying to say that Bush's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan,is terrorism?

The drone program began under Bush and terrorizes innocent people in like a half dozen countries. You decided to relax your standard of what counted as terrorism so I did the same. If you don't like it, stop doing it yourself.Iraq was definitely terrorism. There could be some justification for Afghanistan even though people should know by now you can't conquer it.

 

War

 

"War is a state of armed conflict between societies. It is generally characterized by extreme aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces. An absence of war is usually called "peace". Warfare refers to the common activities and characteristics of types of war, or of wars in general."

 

Terrorism

 

"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Yeah it's odd how they fit together so effectively.

 

 

You don't instil bravery in people if they continue to believe no one will support them if they speak out. Its crude but consider how many Jews would speak out about hatred against them in a Nazi state compared to one that has made clear it will protect them. Once those who have already left the faith and those who are ready to leave it (or at least profess a better version of Islam) the moment they consider it safe to do so know we are on their side then things will quickly change. Those "moderates" are Conservatives and I could not care less what they think. We need to support Apostates and Liberal Muslims (also Apostates to the Conservatives) against them and shatter their current supremacy.

"We" don't need to do anything. Indonesia's fine and the biggest Muslim country in the world. If you don't care about Islam's sects, development and end result your opinion regarding them is basically even less relevant than your earlier ones.

 

Except Conservative Muslims are the large majority of Muslims and have supremacy. 

No, they're not. Unless forced or in one of the theocracies they're basically like any other country in the world. Saudi Arabia and Iran are pretty much the only ones run by conservatives and even there it's not absolute. 

 

I see you have gone from "no they don't" to "okay but only some". They have supremacy in the west and that needs to go that much is clear. Conservatives can as far as I am concerned do what they like in Arabia. They don't have supremacy in the West. The only countries with conservative Muslims leader are Saudi Arabia and Iran. The rest are basically normal countries with large Islamic populations.

 

 

And Indonesia is your example of a nice Muslim country/people? Yeah, Indonesia's awesome and has more Muslims than anywhere else on earth.

 

Says who? Pure whataboutery too. Says me.

 

Again you misunderstand the situation so heavily. The problem are not the mad dog radicals as they are indeed a small tiny minority. The problem is the Conservatives who make up the majority who in many cases are no different to Radicals outside them believing they shouldn't personally get involved in killing (leave that to the Radicals). I've been referring to to the radicals as conservatives. They don't dominate anything outside of two countries.

 

Whataboutery again and an utterly stupid comment too. When many American schools are teaching that the Jew is the devil then get back to me. Probably why they want to fund their own schools. If they can get them accredited there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that.

 

Protecting citizens from hate crimes is against the Constitution apparently. You a KKK member or something? Sound like it. Literally what you have said. Arresting criminals and publicly denouncing such terrible acts is bad. Lunacy. Inhibiting free practice of religion and measures against free speech are both definitely contrary to the Constitution, yes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with protecting your citizens against attack by any terrorist group, including right-wing extremist groups like the KKK and the handful of Muslims in the US who may hold extreme views. The numbers involved in the Islamic part are so minuscule in number that they may as well not be counted. I'm not a member of any hate group. You just appear to think if someone defends another group there's something wrong with them instead of them just having a different opinion.

[Vicente Martinez]

"The drone program began under Bush and terrorizes innocent people in like a half dozen countries. You decided to relax your standard of what counted as terrorism so I did the same. If you don't like it, stop doing it yourself.Iraq was definitely terrorism. There could be some justification for Afghanistan even though people should know by now you can't conquer it"

Wow,are you sure you don't have memory loss because I never relaxed anything,last time I checked you're the one going around making war and terrorism the same thing,at this point you should probably make your own dictionary.Obama intensified the use of the drones.Why are you so desperate to win? The Iraqi War wasn't terrorism,it was a war (because multiple separate states were fighting against each other),those two wars (along with the drones) are completely irrelevant since they don't count as neither right-wing,nor terrorism.

 

Now you are making up utterly false claims,please,do tell me any occasion when I relaxed or changed any definition,because what you're doing (suddenly making wars terrorism) is cringe.Whatever the US did does nnot count,the US isn't a terror group nor is it a terrorist,again 9/11 alone completely overshadows every single right wing terror attack if you use stats,even when you combine all the right wing attacks (across the world),anyone who is willing to accept the solid facts will see that Islamic terrorism is much more deadlier and destructive than any form of terrorism.What's more dangerous? A well-armed,global network of Jihadists itching to see you die along with your nation and culture,or some random madman (most of the far right terrorists are proven to have some form of mental disorder) that kills a few people(usually less than 100)?

---------------------------- ----- -

"The right kills more"

Do you really want to do that comparison?9/11 alone killed far more people than all these small,isolated right wing shootings.

 

Who TF was talking about wars? Don't try to deflect the subject. The drone program isn't "right wing terrorism" it's just another product of Obama's horrible foreign policy.Are you trying to say that Bush's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan,is terrorism?

 

That's not terrorism,that's war.So you want to compare,eh?Well going by statistics(since 2000) you'll quickly begin to see that Islamic terrorism is far more deadlier than any other form of terrorism,because 9/11 (judging by casualties,political repercussions,collateral damage,etc.) alone completely overshadows every single right wing terror attack that has happened since the beginning of the 21st century.

 

Please,tell me what evidence of changing definitions do you see? Or when did you suddenly get the power to change definitions?If you haven't noticed,war without a justification is simply a war.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Vincent de Beer

[Vicente Martinez]

The Iraqi War was an armed conflict between coalition nations and Iraq,a war between states is not terrorism,it's war.

[Vicente Martinez]

"Right Wing extremist groups like the KKK"

 

Please,even Al Bagdadi is scarier than the KKK,even though the KKK HASN'T MADE A SINGLE TERRORIST ATTACK IN DECADES.

[Rozalia]

"We" don't need to do anything. Indonesia's fine and the biggest Muslim country in the world. If you don't care about Islam's sects, development and end result your opinion regarding them is basically even less relevant than your earlier ones.

 

No, they're not. Unless forced or in one of the theocracies they're basically like any other country in the world. Saudi Arabia and Iran are pretty much the only ones run by conservatives and even there it's not absolute. 

 

They don't have supremacy in the West. The only countries with conservative Muslims leader are Saudi Arabia and Iran. The rest are basically normal countries with large Islamic populations.

 

Yeah, Indonesia's awesome and has more Muslims than anywhere else on earth.

 

Says me.

 

Probably why they want to fund their own schools. If they can get them accredited there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that.

 

Inhibiting free practice of religion and measures against free speech are both definitely contrary to the Constitution, yes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with protecting your citizens against attack by any terrorist group, including right-wing extremist groups like the KKK and the handful of Muslims in the US who may hold extreme views. The numbers involved in the Islamic part are so minuscule in number that they may as well not be counted. I'm not a member of any hate group. You just appear to think if someone defends another group there's something wrong with them instead of them just having a different opinion.

 

Who said anything about doing something? I have already said they can do as they like in their countries. You brought up Indonesia and glorified them as good and I gave you evidence they ain't so good. No more.

 

Statistics on beliefs when it comes to homosexuality, Apostasy, and other issues show you up there. 

 

They do and you as usual don't know what you're talking about. If they didn't have supremacy then Apostates wouldn't have to either pretend to be Muslims still or fear for their lives if they don't. If they didn't have supremacy then Liberal Muslims wouldn't be labelled Islamophobes for having the audacity to be more accepting. If they didn't have supremacy then their dress wouldn't be so widespread among many of them. If they didn't have suprmeacy then their views on homosexuality, Jews, women, and other matters would be worlds different. 

 

Jailing people for Apostasy isn't death so I suppose in a way they are very tolerant... what a joke. 

 

Your comment was an implication of hypocrisy for me apparently not having an issue with Jewish segregation. I asked you, "says who?". You have replied with, "says me". I'm against segregation be it Muslim or Jewish. Say what you like but you are wrong in your accusation.

 

??? Wait... what? I must be misunderstanding here. Western schools don't teach Jews are the devil so... Muslims are very justified in founding their own schools... to teach Jews are the devil... uh... clear this up please or confirm you are a complete lunatic.

 

I have even shown you the statistical evidence already and from memory the last KKK attack was like 1970 or something... several decades ago. I however know why you mention them even though you know full well they have been dormant for a long time. You don't know any other right-wing groups and as has been established to you already, right wing terrorism is usually unaffiliated and not a terrorist group action.

Fine lets use your argument against you then. Jews suffer attacks/hatred from a very small group of people, so small they as you say "may as well not be counted"... so lets not do anything about it at all, boys will be boys. Apostates currently either have to pretend to still be Muslim (where is your support for their freedom of religion?) or they leave and then live in fear. Where is your defense of them? Nowhere. Because to defend them means you have to actually rightly attack Muslims for their religion sponsored thuggery. Of course it ain't just Apostates either. Small Muslim sects such as the Ahmadis also have to live in fear.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36037283

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ahmadi-muslim-hate-crime-murder-asad-shah-murder-tanvaar-qadri-islam-gone-unchecked-uk-too-long-a7355401.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/09/shunned-for-saying-theyre-muslims-life-for-ahmadis-after-asad-shahs

 

Where is your defense of such people against the (other) Muslims? Nowhere. Do not dare say a small minority again on this. I challenge you now to attack the Muslim majority for their vile treatment of the Ahmadis. Can you defend them with honesty and strength in your words? I doubt it going by your past performances.

[ComradeMilton]

"The drone program began under Bush and terrorizes innocent people in like a half dozen countries. You decided to relax your standard of what counted as terrorism so I did the same. If you don't like it, stop doing it yourself.Iraq was definitely terrorism. There could be some justification for Afghanistan even though people should know by now you can't conquer it"

Wow,are you sure you don't have memory loss because I never relaxed anything,last time I checked you're the one going around making war and terrorism the same thing There's no more war at this point. All we do is kill 40 or so people at a time in the hope that the guilty one we're after is in that cluster of people. If not, oops, we'll get them after a few more of those attacks. at this point you should probably make your own dictionary.Obama intensified the use of the drones.Why are you so desperate to win? The Iraqi War wasn't terrorism,it was a war (because multiple separate states were fighting against each other),those two wars (along with the drones) are completely irrelevant since they don't count as neither right-wing,nor terrorism. 

 

Now you are making up utterly false claims,please,do tell me any occasion when I relaxed or changed any definition,because what you're doing (suddenly making wars terrorism) is cringe.Whatever the US did does nnot count,the US isn't a terror group nor is it a terrorist,again  The US harbors a terrorist, has shot down civilian airliners and refused to even apologize for the mistake. The US sheltered the Iranian dictator (which was the motivation for Iran taking hostages) when he was forced out of power. 9/11 alone completely overshadows every single right wing terror attack if you use stats,even when you combine all the right wing attacks (across the world),anyone who is willing to accept the solid facts will see that Islamic terrorism is much more deadlier and destructive than any form of terrorism.What's more dangerous? A well-armed,global network of Jihadists itching to see you die along with your nation and culture,or some random madman (most of the far right terrorists are proven to have some form of mental disorder) that kills a few people(usually less than 100)? The right wing if we're going to make it global. The School of the America's trained most of the dictators in South America after schooling there and they created death squats, mass internments and or simply disappearing you by stabbing you and tossing you out of a plane over the ocean. To answer your question I would answer the right-wing extremist.

---------------------------- ----- -

"The right kills more"

Do you really want to do that comparison?9/11 alone killed far more people than all these small,isolated right wing shootings. Well the leftists in the US kill no one and just do property damage so the right definitely kills more.

 

Who TF was talking about wars? Don't try to deflect the subject. The drone program isn't "right wing terrorism" it's just another product of Obama's horrible foreign policy.Are you trying to say that Bush's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan,is terrorism? The drone program is a Bush one continued by Obama. Bush's invasion of Iraq was a literal war crime.

 

That's not terrorism,that's war.So you want to compare,eh?Well going by statistics(since 2000) you'll quickly begin to see that Islamic terrorism is far more deadlier than any other form of terrorism,because 9/11 (judging by casualties,political repercussions,collateral damage,etc.) alone completely overshadows every single right wing terror attack that has happened since the beginning of the 21st century. Which statistics? Who collected them? Who analyzed them? Who's doing the count of which is worse?

 

Please,tell me what evidence of changing definitions do you see? Or when did you suddenly get the power to change definitions?If you haven't noticed,war without a justification is simply a war. A war of aggression is a war crime. It's no wonder Bush doesn't travel internationally.

 

 

"Right Wing extremist groups like the KKK"

 

Please,even Al Bagdadi is scarier than the KKK,even though the KKK HASN'T MADE A SINGLE TERRORIST ATTACK IN DECADES.

In 2015, however, the number of KKK chapters nationwide grew from 72 to 190. The SPLC released a similar report stating that "there were significant increases in Klan as well as black separatist groups."^[201] According to Mark Potok at the SPLC, Donald Trump's presidential campaign speeches "demonizing statements about Latinos and Muslims have electrified the radical right, leading to glowing endorsements from white nationalist leaders such as Jared Taylor and former Klansman David Duke".

 

 

Who said anything about doing something? I have already said they can do as they like in their countries. You brought up Indonesia and glorified them as good and I gave you evidence they ain't so good. No more. I didn't glorify them, I simply pointed out they were far larger than others and had a much more relaxed version of Islam for the most part. You gave some "evidence" which was laughable then as now.

 

Statistics on beliefs when it comes to homosexuality, Apostasy, and other issues show you up there. 

 

They do and you as usual don't know what you're talking about. If they didn't have supremacy then Apostates wouldn't have to either pretend to be Muslims still or fear for their lives if they don't. If they didn't have supremacy then Liberal Muslims wouldn't be labelled Islamophobes for having the audacity to be more accepting. If they didn't have supremacy then their dress wouldn't be so widespread among many of them. If they didn't have suprmeacy then their views on homosexuality, Jews, women, and other matters would be worlds different.  We have terrorists in the United States and we don't consider their actions representative of our country. Why do it to Indonesia?

 

Jailing people for Apostasy isn't death so I suppose in a way they are very tolerant... what a joke. 

 

Your comment was an implication of hypocrisy for me apparently not having an issue with Jewish segregation. I asked you, "says who?". You have replied with, "says me". I'm against segregation be it Muslim or Jewish. Say what you like but you are wrong in your accusation. It's just as accurate as it was before.

 

??? Wait... what? I must be misunderstanding here. Western schools don't teach Jews are the devil so... Muslims are very justified in founding their own schools... to teach Jews are the devil... uh... clear this up please or confirm you are a complete lunatic. Christian schools teach their doctrine and the accepted state or national curriculum. I don't see why Muslims couldn't do the same.

 

I have even shown you the statistical evidence already and from memory the last KKK attack was like 1970 or something... several decades ago. I however know why you mention them even though you know full well they have been dormant for a long time. You don't know any other right-wing groups and as has been established to you already, right wing terrorism is usually unaffiliated and not a terrorist group action. There are plenty of right-wing groups: The Aryan Brotherhood; That guy who's jailed for trying to merge Christianity with racism and assassinated opponents, The KKK is having a massive resurgence in both chapter numbers and overall numbers, even expanding internationally at this point. I'd list more groups, but I doubt you'll accept them so oh well.

 

Fine lets use your argument against you then. Jews suffer attacks/hatred from a very small group of people, so small they as you say "may as well not be counted"... so lets not do anything about it at all, boys will be boys. Apostates currently either have to pretend to still be Muslim (where is your support for their freedom of religion?) or they leave and then live in fear. Where is your defense of them? Nowhere. Because to defend them means you have to actually rightly attack Muslims for their religion sponsored thuggery. Of course it ain't just Apostates either. Small Muslim sects such as the Ahmadis also have to live in fear. I don't see them attacked. Why waste text you'll just reject on a problem that mostly doesn't exist? The real, troubling thing, in my opinion from that region is honor killings that continue as a practice after entering the West.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36037283

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ahmadi-muslim-hate-crime-murder-asad-shah-murder-tanvaar-qadri-islam-gone-unchecked-uk-too-long-a7355401.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/09/shunned-for-saying-theyre-muslims-life-for-ahmadis-after-asad-shahs

 

Where is your defense of such people against the (other) Muslims? Nowhere. Do not dare say a small minority again on this. I challenge you now to attack the Muslim majority for their vile treatment of the Ahmadis. Can you defend them with honesty and strength in your words? I doubt it going by your past performances. It's definitely not a big group doing those things. Much like you minimized (or tried to) the size and danger of right-wing domestic terrorism, which is grotesque, I have a great deal of empathy for Muslims who reject that religion at some point and would think one of the places they'd go to be safest would be the United States. No one should be killed for their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

[Rozalia]

I didn't glorify them, I simply pointed out they were far larger than others and had a much more relaxed version of Islam for the most part. You gave some "evidence" which was laughable then as now.

 

We have terrorists in the United States and we don't consider their actions representative of our country. Why do it to Indonesia?

 

It's just as accurate as it was before.

 

Christian schools teach their doctrine and the accepted state or national curriculum. I don't see why Muslims couldn't do the same.

 

There are plenty of right-wing groups: The Aryan Brotherhood; That guy who's jailed for trying to merge Christianity with racism and assassinated opponents, The KKK is having a massive resurgence in both chapter numbers and overall numbers, even expanding internationally at this point. I'd list more groups, but I doubt you'll accept them so oh well.

 

I don't see them attacked. Why waste text you'll just reject on a problem that mostly doesn't exist? The real, troubling thing, in my opinion from that region is honor killings that continue as a practice after entering the West.

 

It's definitely not a big group doing those things. Much like you minimized (or tried to) the size and danger of right-wing domestic terrorism, which is grotesque, I have a great deal of empathy for Muslims who reject that religion at some point and would think one of the places they'd go to be safest would be the United States. No one should be killed for their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

 

People being jailed for Apostasy is laughable? Do they need to be beheaded before it stops being a joke to you? These are the good Muslims you glorify lol. Hey, they are more relaxed, they jail you instead of beheading you. Thank Allah for their great mercy.

 

First off that does not relate to just Indonesia, it refers to Muslims everywhere. As for the second bit... bloody hell, just bloody hell. The government itself puts you in jail for Apostasy. An action supported heavily in Indonesia. Its not terrorists, stop. 

 

You accused me of not caring about Jewish segregation. I have told you that I am against segregation full stop which includes that. You have continued to accuse me of only caring about Muslim segregation in an attempt to poo poo it as Islamophobia I assume. 

 

Yeah... lunatic. You have just stated that teaching that the Jew is the devil is part of the Muslim doctrine and they should be allowed to teach it. How can you ever dare even bring up the likes of the KKK when you support such hatred if Muslims do it? Completely insane.

 

A prison gang/crime syndicate? You searched them up and that was what you found to lead with?

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/717347/British-Muslims-attacked-abused-threatened-DEATH-Islam

Of course you don't see. You don't care as they aren't worth as many virtue points in your twisted game as Muslims. We will have in the west a good form of Islam when people can leave it or have more Liberal versions without fear. By ignoring what has been going on, ignoring the plight of former/Liberal Muslims, you make it so the Conservative version is what will continue to exist. People like you are to blame with your pathetic defenses of the Conservatives. 

 

I told you that you were wrong in your initial statements as right wing terrorist groups are nowhere near the issue left wing groups are. As for your expected poor showing... that is it? That is how firm you can go? Pathetic. With limp people like you of course the Conservatives will continue with their sexism, racism, and other hatred. They know that no matter how they act people like you will rush to their defense. Do you not understand what they do as a group? You got Sunni Muslim communities refusing to hire any Ahmadis or even serve them for that matter (any outrage?) for example. Sunnis treating Ahmadis as hated outcasts even though both are supposed to be Muslim. If groups like the Council of Muslims (which the Ahmadis don't feature in at all) could only state that murder of Ahmadis was wrong... but Muslims should not have to accept that Ahmadis as Muslims. 

 

Your defense of Muslims which you have admitted to only doing due to you thinking they are poor babies (paraphrasing) under attack is blown to pieces the moment we start mentioning the plight of the likes of Ahmadis, Apostates, and Liberal Muslims. For to defend those groups would be to face up to the fact that the majority of Muslims, Conservatives, hold disgusting beliefs and behaviour. Don't worry though, many of your sort.

[Vicente Martinez]

The right wing if we're going to make it global. The School of the America's trained most of the dictators in South America after schooling there and they created death squats, mass internments and or simply disappearing you by stabbing you and tossing you out of a plane over the ocean. To answer your que stion I would answer the right-wing extremist."

 

Milton please don't change the subject,what you just said about the dictators is,again irrelevant since it doesn't count as terror and happened before 2000-2017 (which is the relevant time period).

 

"Well the leftists in the US kill no one and just do property damage so the right definitely kills more."

 

So?The Islamic terrorists killed far more people and caused massive destruction in a single terror attack than any other group.You can even compare the right wing attacks (across the globe) and they STILL don't match up to 9/11's 2900+ deaths and 6000 injuries,not to mention losing two skyscrapers and massive economic impact.

 

"The US harbors a terrorist, has shot down civilian airliners and refused to even apologize for the mistake. The US sheltered the Iranian dictator (which was the motivation for Iran taking hostages) when he was forced out of power"

 

Okay then?That doesn't matter here since the US isn't a terrorist organization nor is it a terrorist,it's a recognized nation.

 

 

 

" Who's doing the count of which is worse?"

 

9/11 (alone) killed 2,900+ people (that's just one terror attack)

 

The most deadly right wing attack since 2000 (Norway attack) killed 77 people.

[ComradeMilton]

People being jailed for Apostasy is laughable? Yes, frankly in comparison to others' penalty for that being jailed is a joke sentence. Do they need to be beheaded before it stops being a joke to you? These are the good Muslims you glorify lol.  I glorify no one. Hey, they are more relaxed, they jail you instead of beheading you. (And punish at the rate of four people per generation). Thank Allah for their great mercy.  Apostasy in Islam includes within its scope not only the wilful renunciation of Islam by a Muslim through a declaration of their renunciation of the Islamic faith (whether for another religion or irreligiosity), or if lacking a declaration, then by specific deed of undergoing the rites of conversion into another religion, but also even denying, or merely questioning, any "fundamental tenet or creed" of Islam, such as the divinity of God, prophethood of Muhammad, or mocking God, or worshipping one or more idols.^[7][8] Different Muslim denominations and schools of thought may also hold different additional views of what each consider a fundamental tenet of the faith. Nevertheless, Muslim jurists from the early period, from different Muslim denominations and schools of thought, developed legal institutions to circumvent harsh punishment in allegations or charges of apostasy. These institutions set the standard for what counts as apostasy from Islam so high that at least prior to the 11th century practically no judgment of apostasy could be passed,^[9] though since then, these high standards of what counts for apostasy have not been consistently applied throughout the Muslim World.

The apostate term has also been used for people of religions that trace their origins to Islam, such as the Bahá'ís in Iran, even when the modern adherents of said religions may never have actually been Muslims themselves. Apostasy in Islam does not include acts against Islam or conversion to another religion that is involuntary, forced or done as concealment out of fear of persecution or during war (Taqiyya or Kitman).^[10][11]

Until the late 1800s, the vast majority of Islamic scholars in Madh'hab (Sunni) and Imamah (Shia) schools of jurisprudence held that for adult men, apostasy in Islam was a crime as well as a sin, an act of treason punishable with the death penalty,^[5][12]typically after a waiting period to allow the apostate time to repent and return to Islam.^{[5][13][14][15]} The kind of apostasy generally deemed to be punishable by the jurists was of the political kind, although there were considerable legal differences of opinion on this matter.^[16] Wael Hallaq states that "[in] a culture whose lynchpin is religion, religious principles and religious morality, apostasy is in some way equivalent to high treason in the modern nation-state."^[17] In the late 1800s, the use of criminal penalties for apostasy fell into disuse, although civil penalties were still applied.^[5]

According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Islamic jurists continue to regard apostasy as a crime deserving the death penalty.^[13] Some consider apostasy in Islam to be a form of religious crime, although others do not.^[4][5][18] Others argue that the death penalty is an inappropriate punishment,^{[19][20][21][22]}inconsistent with the Qur'anic injunctions such as Quran 88:21-22^[23] or "no compulsion in religion";^[24] and/or that it is not a general rule but it was enacted at a time when the early Muslim community also faced internal enemies who threatened its unity, safety, and security, and needed to prevent and punish the equivalent of desertion or treason,^[25] and should be enforced only if apostasy becomes a mechanism of public disobedience and disorder (fitna).^[26] According to Khaled Abou El Fadl, moderate Muslims do not believe that apostasy requires punishment.^[23] Critics argue that the death penalty or other punishment for apostasy in Islam is a violation of universal human rights, and an issue of freedom of faith and conscience.

Under current laws in Islamic countries, the prescribed punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد) ranges from execution to prison term to no punishment.^[28][29] Sharia courts in some countries use civil code to void the Muslim apostate’s marriage and deny child custody rights, as well as his or her inheritance rights for apostasy.^[30] In the years 1985-2006, four individuals were executed by governments for apostasy from Islam: "one in Sudan in 1985; two in Iran, in 1989 and 1998; and one in Saudi Arabia in 1992."^[24] Twenty-three Muslim-majority countries, as of 2013, additionally covered apostasy in Islam through their criminal laws.^[31] The Tunisian Constitution of 2014 stipulates protection from attacks based on accusations of apostasy

 

First off that does not relate to just Indonesia, it refers to Muslims everywhere. As for the second bit... bloody hell, just bloody hell. The government itself puts you in jail for Apostasy. An action supported heavily in Indonesia. Its not terrorists, stop. I'll argue as I please, thanks, and the government does not put you in jail for apostasy. Your knowledge seems to be a few centuries out of date.

 

You accused me of not caring about Jewish segregation. I have told you that I am against segregation full stop which includes that. You have continued to accuse me of only caring about Muslim segregation in an attempt to poo poo it as Islamophobia I assume. No, you just seem to have a problem with it when it's Islamic and never mention it with regard to Judaism which really suggests it's more you have a problem with Islam more than you have a problem with segregation.

 

Yeah... lunatic. You have just stated that teaching that the Jew is the devil is part of the Muslim doctrine and they should be allowed to teach it. How can you ever dare even bring up the likes of the KKK when you support such hatred if Muslims do it? Completely insane. I don't run their curriculum. I doubt you know it either. I keep being asked about right-wing extremist groups and decided to finally throw some out there so you and that other lunatic can get back on topic.

 

A prison gang/crime syndicate? You searched them up and that was what you found to lead with? I didn't search anything. They're not exclusively a prison gang at all, but a group in and out of prison that basically does the same thing back and forth. They're supposed to number about 10,000 members.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/717347/British-Muslims-attacked-abused-threatened-DEATH-Islam

Of course you don't see. You don't care as they aren't worth as many virtue points in your twisted game as Muslims. We will have in the west a good form of Islam when people can leave it or have more Liberal versions without fear. By ignoring what has been going on, ignoring the plight of former/Liberal Muslims, you make it so the Conservative version is what will continue to exist. People like you are to blame with your pathetic defenses of the Conservatives. I haven't defended conservatives except from discrimination. Your hobby just seems to be making up claims that haven't been put forth and then arguing about why they're wrong. Why not just stick to what's actually said?

 

I told you that you were wrong in your initial statements as right wing terrorist groups are nowhere near the issue left wing groups are. As for your expected poor showing... that is it? That is how firm you can go? Pathetic I'm not going to post an encyclopedia of right-wing extremist groups. If you want all of them check out the Southern Povery Law Center. With limp people like you of course the Conservatives will continue with their sexism, racism, and other hatred. You must be confused: these groups have nothing to do with Islam, they're just right-wing terrorist groups that are active and growing at an alarming rate in the United States. They know that no matter how they act people like you will rush to their defense. Do you not understand what they do as a group? You got Sunni Muslim communities refusing to hire any Ahmadis or even serve them for that matter (any outrage?) for example. Sunnis treating Ahmadis as hated outcasts even though both are supposed to be Muslim. If groups like the Council of Muslims (which the Ahmadis don't feature in at all) could only state that murder of Ahmadis was wrong... but Muslims should not have to accept that Ahmadis as Muslims. I don't involve myself in how they function. That's not really my business except if something happens in the United States and even then the punishment is limited to the US.

 

Your defense of Muslims which you have admitted to only doing due to you thinking they are poor babies (paraphrasing) under attack is blown to pieces the moment we start mentioning the plight of the likes of Ahmadis, Apostates, and Liberal Muslims. For to defend those groups would be to face up to the fact that the majority of Muslims, Conservatives, hold disgusting beliefs and behaviour. Don't worry though, many of your sort. You don't know my sort no matter how much crap you spatter on the floor about it. I haven't discussed my beliefs with any depth so you'd lack a source for knowing about my beliefs anyway.

 

 

The right wing if we're going to make it global. The School of the America's trained most of the dictators in South America after schooling there and they created death squats, mass internments and or simply disappearing you by stabbing you and tossing you out of a plane over the ocean. To answer your que stion I would answer the right-wing extremist."

 

Milton please don't change the subject,what you just said about the dictators is,again irrelevant since it doesn't count as terror and happened before 2000-2017 (which is the relevant time period). Yeah, I ignored that. If you can dictate what you're arguing so can I.

 

"Well the leftists in the US kill no one and just do property damage so the right definitely kills more."

 

So?The Islamic terrorists killed far more people and caused massive destruction in a single terror attack than any other group.You can even compare the right wing attacks (across the globe) and they STILL don't match up to 9/11's 2900+ deaths and 6000 injuries,not to mention losing two skyscrapers and massive economic impact. The right-wing attacks would exceed them quite thoroughly.

 

"The US harbors a terrorist, has shot down civilian airliners and refused to even apologize for the mistake. The US sheltered the Iranian dictator (which was the motivation for Iran taking hostages) when he was forced out of power"

 

Okay then?That doesn't matter here since the US isn't a terrorist organization nor is it a terrorist,it's a recognized nation. So are Iran, Iraq, Syria, North Korea and other regimes. That doesn't excuse their actions, nor does it excuse American actions that put us into the same category as those other states.

 

 

 

" Who's doing the count of which is worse?"

 

9/11 (alone) killed 2,900+ people (that's just one terror attack)

 

The most deadly right wing attack since 2000 (Norway attack) killed 77 people.

 

The most deadly right wing attacks occurred in the eighties for the most part and killed hundreds of thousands, actually. You're right that there's no comparison, but wrong about who is worse.

[Rozalia]

What a mess.

 

Mess involving it not actually being illegal

I'll argue as I please, thanks, and the government does not put you in jail for apostasy. Your knowledge seems to be a few centuries out of date.

No, you just seem to have a problem with it when it's Islamic and never mention it with regard to Judaism which really suggests it's more you have a problem with Islam more than you have a problem with segregation.

 

I don't run their curriculum. I doubt you know it either. I keep being asked about right-wing extremist groups and decided to finally throw some out there so you and that other lunatic can get back on topic.

I didn't search anything. They're not exclusively a prison gang at all, but a group in and out of prison that basically does the same thing back and forth. They're supposed to number about 10,000 members.

I haven't defended conservatives except from discrimination. Your hobby just seems to be making up claims that haven't been put forth and then arguing about why they're wrong. Why not just stick to what's actually said?

 I'm not going to post an encyclopedia of right-wing extremist groups. If you want all of them check out the Southern Povery Law Center.

You must be confused: these groups have nothing to do with Islam, they're just right-wing terrorist groups that are active and growing at an alarming rate in the United States.

I don't involve myself in how they function. That's not really my business except if something happens in the United States and even then the punishment is limited to the US.

You don't know my sort no matter how much crap you spatter on the floor about it. I haven't discussed my beliefs with any depth so you'd lack a source for knowing about my beliefs anyway.

 

Slavery is also illegal in the gulf states and look how that is. The government steps in if an event occurs that riles people enough and in all other cases civilians will punish the "offenders", just as they do in the west but... you don't care about those victims. I see you miss out the parts where it says they jail you and do other such things (and this again, ignores the vigilant element which is what is getting those Liberals killed in places like Pakistan and other places).

 

And you as ever have no concept of the scope of things. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/07/secular-activist-who-criticised-islamism-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh

Executions go down over Apostasy or simply even saying the wrong things in regards to Islam in those Muslim countries. 

 

Must I mention every group doing segregation when making mention of Muslim wrongdoing? Are the Muslims so protected that I literally have to attack everyone else in the same breath before I can send anything their way? You have no idea how much hate towards Muslims this... just sad constant defense of them you have going on promotes. I have told you that I am against segregation be it Muslim, Jewish, or whatever. There is no hypocrisy. 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/teacher-quits-muslim-school-he-claimed-was-riddled-with-islamism-and-anti-semitism-10031055.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11808658
https://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/soas-now-stands-for-school-of-anti-semitism/
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1703/uk-anti-semitism-muslim-schools
Those Saudi schools you clearly know exist as you made mention of them... how do you know of them and yet not know that they teach anti-gay and Jew stuff to their students? Now please give me a second here... I just have to bring it to some attention okay... a very notable and important thing... YOU HAVE LITERALLY SAID THAT MUSLIMS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TEACH JEWS ARE DEVILS IN THEIR SCHOOLS. YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW CRAZY THAT IS? DISAVOW!

 

Are they listed as a terrorist group? What listed terrorist attacks do they have?

 

You defend Conservatives from discrimination... so the Conservatives can continue to discriminate towards others. Learn to understand that they have massive problems which to be dealt with need for us to actually sit down and say openly that such things are wrong and must change. The anti-women, gay, Jew, Apostate stuff and more have to go simple as that.  

 

And yet I had no problem linking you the full list of left wing terrorist attacks and the (much smaller) right wing terrorist attacks. I'm lazy is not a valid excuse to not post evidence. 

 

Bloody hell, how many damn times. Those articles I linked involved normal people being the wrongdoers, not damn terrorists. The things I mentioned of anti-gay, women, jew, Aposate, the not serving/hiring of Ahmadis, and the rest are all done not by terrorists, but by Conservatives. It seems clear you don't even know what a Conservative is so I'll try to clue you in. The terrorists are the "Radicals". The Conservatives are the majority of Muslims, often referred to as "moderates" to make them sound nicer.

 

Not your business? And yet if it was a Christian Fundy you'd be all up in there. Being being discriminated against when it comes to hiring and being refused service is dandy if Muslims are the ones doing it to you it seems. Pathetic. 

 

People can see your beliefs quite clearly. 

[ComradeMilton]

What a mess.

 

 

Slavery is also illegal in the gulf states and look how that is. That has nothing to do with religion it's just corruption. The government steps in if an event occurs that riles people enough and in all other cases civilians will punish the "offenders", just as they do in the west but... you don't care about those victims. Says who, exactly? I see you miss out the parts where it says they jail you and do other such things (and this again, ignores the vigilant element which is what is getting those Liberals killed in places like Pakistan and other places). You either didn't read what I linked or ignored it.

 

And you as ever have no concept of the scope of things. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/07/secular-activist-who-criticised-islamism-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh

Executions go down over Apostasy or simply even saying the wrong things in regards to Islam in those Muslim countries. And over other things in Chicago. Crime happens; things I don't agree with happen, etc.

 

Must I mention every group doing segregation when making mention of Muslim wrongdoing? Are the Muslims so protected that I literally have to attack everyone else in the same breath before I can send anything their way? You have no idea how much hate towards Muslims this... just sad constant defense of them you have going on promotes. I have told you that I am against segregation be it Muslim, Jewish, or whatever. There is no hypocrisy. Then there's encroachment on their religious freedoms which is almost worse. If you measure Islamic terrorists against total Muslim populations you'd need a lot of scientific notation to actually display the number it's so large.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/teacher-quits-muslim-school-he-claimed-was-riddled-with-islamism-and-anti-semitism-10031055.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11808658

https://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/soas-now-stands-for-school-of-anti-semitism/

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1703/uk-anti-semitism-muslim-schools

Those Saudi schools you clearly know exist as you made mention of them... how do you know of them and yet not know that they teach anti-gay and Jew stuff to their students? I know what they try to teach and that in order to qualify as a legitimate school also have to handle the normal curriculum any other school does. The rest is objectionable, but protected speech. Now please give me a second here... I just have to bring it to some attention okay... a very notable and important thing... YOU HAVE LITERALLY SAID THAT MUSLIMS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TEACH JEWS ARE DEVILS IN THEIR SCHOOLS. YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW CRAZY THAT IS? DISAVOW!

 

I have not said that. I find the idea objectionable, but I'm not going to condemn every member of the religion for a few crazies. Are they listed as a terrorist group? The US? Yes. What listed terrorist attacks do they have? Shooting down a civilian airliner, giving precursor chemicals to Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war. The Kurdish where they killed everyone with some of the chemical weapons we basically provided to them. Massacring a mile or more column of light vehicles retreating back into Iraq during the first Gulf War. Extraordinary rendition, illegal imprisonment and violation of related treaties, training death squads and extreme right wing leaders, then helping throwing coups that put them into power; the list just goes on and on.

 

You defend Conservatives from discrimination When/where?... so the Conservatives can continue to discriminate towards others. Learn to understand that they have massive problems which to be dealt with need for us to actually sit down and say openly that such things are wrong and must change. The anti-women, gay, Jew, Apostate stuff and more have to go simple as that. They're not going to change their religion because you say you don't like it, you realize? Perhaps you should be taught how to argue a belief you don't hold in reality. It's taught in nicer colleges and helps in situations like this.

And yet I had no problem linking you the full list of left wing terrorist attacks and the (much smaller) right wing terrorist attacks. I'm lazy is not a valid excuse to not post evidence.  Then do without evidence. It doesn't bother me.

 

Bloody hell, how many damn times. Those articles I linked involved normal people being the wrongdoers, not damn terrorists. The things I mentioned of anti-gay, women, jew, Aposate, the not serving/hiring of Ahmadis, and the rest are all done not by terrorists, but by Conservatives. It seems clear you don't even know what a Conservative is so I'll try to clue you in. The terrorists are the "Radicals". The Conservatives are the majority of Muslims, often referred to as "moderates" to make them sound nicer. You can keep repeating your error, but it's not going to stop being wrong. Conservatives are not the moderates, they're much more right-wing than the majority of Muslims, but nowhere near as extremist as you make them out to be.

 

Not your business? And yet if it was a Christian Fundy you'd be all up in there. Being being discriminated against when it comes to hiring and being refused service is dandy if Muslims are the ones doing it to you it seems. Pathetic. I would? According to whom? You're doing that thing where you make stuff up and then argue against it like it's been said by someone else again.

 

People can see your beliefs quite clearly.  I've never tried to hide them.

[Vicente Martinez]

"The most deadly right wing attacks occurred in the eighties for the most part and killed hundreds of thousands, actually. You're right that there's no comparison, but wrong about who is worse."

 

"Hundreds of thousands"??? Where exactly are you getting your info from?

 

It's really sad that you have go back all the way to the 1980s just to try and win,because what happened in 2015 happens to be much more relevant than things that happened in the 20th century,but if that's how you're playing,then so be it.After some searching,it seems that the most deadly far right attack (since 1980)is the Oklahoma bombing,which killed 160+ persons,in comparison,9/11 killed 2990+ persons,and again,you can combine all the right wing attacks since 1980 and you still won't match up to 9/11.