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Old FA vs Current FA


Jodo
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3. Both BoC and Cornerstone dropped their treaties BEFORE or DURING their transition into Syndisphere. So yet again, my point stands.

5, TLF has been in Syndisphere for awhile(OO branch) but I have no idea when you reached out to them. 

6. You're posting out of your ass.

7. You have no evidence to back it up. I've been a leader for 2 months and Roz Wei helped its "allies" when I was in gov there so I'm not really seeing what you're saying here, and I didn't cross anyone then so why would I now?

 

3. >"won't sign any alliances that aren't in Syndisphere. It's literally impossible." 

 

Where were they before they got signed again?  I shortened down your quote, hopefully you'll see it.

 

6. I'm having to stoop down to your level, unfortunately.

7. Ok.

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This is so far off. You're comparing apples and oranges. TKR is an alliance that has always been on the winning side from its inception. It is a lot easier to play as a winning side alliance than otherwise in every aspect of the game, both mechanical and FA-wise.

 

Most of their FA groundwork was actually laid when they were using slack and everyone else was using IRC, so they weren't particularly out there in the public aside from some posters. It's not comparable in the slightest. Your attributing their success to their recent gov expansion is really far off. I'm not taking away from what they've done, but attributing what amounts to a years long process to these recent developments is inaccurate. They got powerful and then expanded their presence, not the other way around.

 

Orbis "community" is mostly on one side, which usually results in open hostility, which is why we get sick of the interaction and why it appears we're reclusive. The atmosphere on these forums and on discord is often pretty toxic. You can call it whining, but posts like this are exactly the reason. We've been perfectly willing to have serious discussions with everyone even if we pointedly disagree.

 

Paperless interacts with the community all the time, but you managed to start multiple wars against them at this point.

 

---

 

On the general topic, it's a usual progression for games to consolidate into one megasphere, just the pace at which has happened has been fast and the relations haven't frayed like they would in other hegemoney situations, so we're in a situation where everyone is comfortable with their position and no one wants to change things. Wars are frequent and relationships take much longer to fall apart in comfortable situations. The govs have largely remained the same in the ruling bloc, so they're used to working with each other and for many that have come up through the system it's all they know. It's just always been kind of ironic given all the talk about how this was such a politically dynamic game and how Paracov were stagnating it for signing the treaties or that import alliances were stagnaters and this was some sort of utopia that didn't replicate the same patterns and people did things to keep it fresh.

I read all of this.

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3. >"won't sign any alliances that aren't in Syndisphere. It's literally impossible." 

 

Where were they before they got signed again?  I shortened down your quote, hopefully you'll see it.

 

6. I'm having to stoop down to your level, unfortunately.

7. Ok.

I think you're missing the point.

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You do realize that's exactly what happened with SK right? There's a few alliances that I think could be pulled away with some effort.

In fairness to his argument, When we left on our own accord. we attempted to gauge the interest of some Syndi-sphere AA's.  (to be less structurally biased against a particular sphere) But what parties we did talk to had little interest in leaving the winning side. (Which no one can fault them for.) 

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This is so far off. You're comparing apples and oranges. TKR is an alliance that has always been on the winning side from its inception. It is a lot easier to play as a winning side alliance than otherwise in every aspect of the game, both mechanical and FA-wise.

 

I'll agree that it is easier to play as a "winning side", but...  why is that?  Is it because they work well with the rest of the coalition of leaders?  Is it because they actually listened to constructive advice about what works and what doesn't?  Is it because they give players a chance to showcase their skills and contribute to the overall think tank of what works/what doesn't?

 

But ok, you obviously know more than I do, I suppose.

 

 

I will concede on that one point, NPO did come in with nothing much laid out for them other than having support from a couple of alliances they were familiar with in that other game while TKR did have a solid foundation laid out for them.  That still doesn't change my mind on the fact that NPO could very well match TKR, however, and I'm basing that off of our experience in Mensa.  You have a concentrated growth just as we did, except we didn't purposely keep ourselves stunted for long periods of time.

 

Pretty sure if Mensa had the numbers that NPO has, we'd be #1 in score, easy - but I understand that isn't your goal (Which is fine).  My point is just that NPO could easily match TKR.

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Two points in regards to this. The first is that the paperless sphere no longer has the Realpolitik vibe that it used to. Paperless used to be a freeing concept, but now in a way it has become a series of alliances between Test/RW/Arrgh that are merely not in paper, but stand anyways. This talk about Pantheon is an example. You had no obligation to that I am aware of, but did once your friends did, you did. AKA an alliance. VE was not targeted despite being paperless, and this is because they were not perceived as part of the sphere, which shouldn't even exist due to being paperless.

 

As for the hanger ons, they may get shit on, but they do it for a reason. People in this game have a long memory, and allies want to see effort on their allies part, even if it has little practical effect. If you appear to have no value and are using treaties as a shield, guess whos paper might get burned when push comes to shove.

 

We entered with them because it was the smart thing to do. Had we entered elsewhere I knew it'd be 168 all over again with anybody and everybody throwing attacks our way. Entering with TEst and Arrgh made it so if a counter came it'd have to also be directed at them. Our interests aligned and we did something, not much to it.

 

I would say someone that is afraid of not getting their kudos for use later are unlikely to break off and throw said kudos away. While I don't like it, its not something I care much for and will always exist. I know it used to be that alliances would huddle with the other group of boys because they were afraid of Mensa (how I perceived it with some of the things that were said and the hate Mensa got among some groups). Now that refuge is gone perhaps they huddle with whatever you might call this sphere now... though I don't think Mensa is quite the reason (or sole at least) for that now, likely with this sphere being the only game in town that is considered safe.

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I'll agree that it is easier to play as a "winning side", but...  why is that?  Is it because they work well with the rest of the coalition of leaders?  Is it because they actually listened to constructive advice about what works and what doesn't?  Is it because they give players a chance to showcase their skills and contribute to the overall think tank of what works/what doesn't?

 

But ok, you obviously know more than I do, I suppose.

 

 

I will concede on that one point, NPO did come in with nothing much laid out for them other than having support from a couple of alliances they were familiar with in that other game while TKR did have a solid foundation laid out for them.  That still doesn't change my mind on the fact that NPO could very well match TKR, however, and I'm basing that off of our experience in Mensa.  You have a concentrated growth just as we did, except we didn't purposely keep ourselves stunted for long periods of time.

 

Pretty sure if Mensa had the numbers that NPO has, we'd be #1 in score, easy - but I understand that isn't your goal (Which is fine).  My point is just that NPO could easily match TKR.

 

In general, if you're on the winning side, you don't take as much damage as alliances that lose. Wars often result in lesser damage, with the last war being an exception since it came closer in damage, but the security of being on the winning side enables you to grow without having to worry as much as well and spend more on it.   If you're constantly losing, you won't be able to do as much in peacetime since your rebuild will take longer than for the winning side. You can also advertise winning wars to attract people and in general, it's a huge benefit since alliances will also also gravitate to the winning side. Even before Paracov fractured, alliances knew being on the Syndisphere would be the better deal for them in terms of how difficult wars would be and were attracted to that.

 

 As for why the winning side achieved a string of victories  largely because there was no cohesive other side at any point. If Paracov had the level of cohesion that Syndisphere did and actually had coordinated in peacetime when it was still in existence and had settled on actual goals rather than being a largely reactionary non-entity, the game would be a lot different. I'm not disputing they worked well with the other alliances since there wasn't the level of distrust like between the Paracov alliances since Paracov was mostly a team of previous rivals, which isn't what Syndisphere was in the slightest. I'm not disputing they performed well mechanically either.

 

It's not really the same as Mensa, since aside from the setback in the VE War, you have had success since then. We've also experienced relatively high attrition since we've had a lot of people decide to leave browser gaming. I'm not making excuses, just explaining. When we were focused on growing as fast as possible, because we lacked that kind of security and people knew we were spending a lot on growth we were deliberately targeted in mass raids and there were scenarios where we'd have gotten pulled in like the Alpha War and scenarios where we did get hit like in June, with the other side knowing we weren't really at capacity to fight those. In the past month or so, there have been several incidents where we might have had to have intervened. If we tried to match TKR or anyone on the other side statistically, that would likely be exploited before we'd be ready and we would essentially have built ourselves further into tiers where they dominate more absolutely and unable to offer real resistance in a war.  From a gameplay perspective, just getting zeroed out in the first round and then pinned down for the rest of the war isn't particularly attractive as well.

 

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It's amazing how everything is t$/Syndisphere ruining the game. I mean ffs, I am going purely off the wiki page here, but in the Silent War, you guys had more total alliances, more total score, the advantage of being the aggressors, and you still lost. Somehow this is part of Syndisphere ruining the game. I mean honestly, are we supposed to just let you win?

 

Paperless probably could have turned the tide of that war. I recall being pretty damn nervous when I saw TEst was hitting Pantheon, and of course RW and Arrgh tag along. But nah, they were playing the game how they wanted, and that didn't involve taking down Syndisphere, because they don't care that we are at the top. They just wanted a quick hit on an already engaged alliance and to get out before they burned too many of their pixels.

 

It's not our fault that we keep winning. If you want someone to blame for where we are right now, then you should be looking somewhere else.

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Megaspheres form, consolidate and expand, become unstable before imploding. It is the natural order of things.

 

Failing to recognise this and remaining stuck in the same mentality of " must fight syndisphere, OO and Mensa " war after war is just outright lazy FA. Any skilled FA person worth a damn recognises when an approach is clearly failing and adapts their approach accordingly even if it means making diplomatic overtures to their traditional foes either directly or indirectly. Does that mean a treaty to BK, TKR, Mensa or syndi? No, there are plenty of other AAs on that sphere which can easily and indirectly provide a level of protection by mere indirect association

 

If you don't want to do that then fair enough, it's your right to do so but don't !@#$ and complain when you act like an enemy consistently and are treated accordingly. This is a competitive game, don't expect the opposing side to make it any easier for you, it is your own responsibility to improve your own standing.

 

As for this nonsense of it being harder to sign new treaties because of opposing syndi, OO and Mensa. These difficulties are a result of your own choices, make new choices and follow a new path and these difficulties will fade away. If you choose not to and instead want to keep on following the same path then feel free to keep !@#$ing about one sphere killing the game and using that as an excuse to justify lazy FA.

 

In regards to elitist AAs, I believe it comes down to differing motives. I for one am in an "elitist" alliance simply because I was sick of paying taxes to fund lower tier growth without ever seeing any real benefit for myself which I can't gain right now in an alliance with 0% taxes.

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For TEst:

I like the idea of paperless, it's nice to have paperless alliances in this game, it's an interesting variant, but you can't complain on how things are going

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Who is trying to oppose the Syndispehre?"

"SK and Valyria"

"Ask for help"

"They said no because we just rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Who can counter spy and help us?"

"Alpha and Fark"

"Ask for help"

"They said no because we just rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"We should ask to GPA"

"We can't, GPA is dead"

"Why?"

"Ehm... we rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Why they did?"

"Because if they don't stop us we roll everyone and they have no rivals"

"Uh, right..."

 

 

For everyone outside Syndisphere:

Git gud and work together, you can be better but if you don't try you will never understand it.

Check the treaty web, NPO, VE, UPN, SK, Acadia, Polaris, Valyria, Roz Wei, Arrgh, TEst, NK, Apha, Fark, Valkyrie, Lordaeron, GCB, WTF, OoS, HBE, TBE, NW, TFP, Vox Populi, do you realize how much potential you have? Put all that shit together and git gud, if you can do it you're scary as !@#$ for us, you only lose when you stop trying.

Also alliances like Mensa and Rose would be happy to change side to balance the strength if you are not enough, but only if you git gud because they're not masochists, what everyone want to see is 2 or more sides who fight to see who is better, not one side that has to lower its level because the other side is unable to do better.

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For TEst:

I like the idea of paperless, it's nice to have paperless alliances in this game, it's an interesting variant, but you can't complain on how things are going

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Who is trying to oppose the Syndispehre?"

"SK and Valyria"

"Ask for help"

"They said no because we just rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Who can counter spy and help us?"

"Alpha and Fark"

"Ask for help"

"They said no because we just rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"We should ask to GPA"

"We can't, GPA is dead"

"Why?"

"Ehm... we rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Why they did?"

"Because if they don't stop us we roll everyone and they have no rivals"

"Uh, right..."

 

 

For everyone outside Syndisphere:

Git gud and work together, you can be better but if you don't try you will never understand it.

Check the treaty web, NPO, VE, UPN, SK, Acadia, Polaris, Valyria, Roz Wei, Arrgh, TEst, NK, Apha, Fark, Valkyrie, Lordaeron, GCB, WTF, OoS, HBE, TBE, NW, TFP, Vox Populi, do you realize how much potential you have? Put all that shit together and git gud, if you can do it you're scary as !@#$ for us, you only lose when you stop trying.

Also alliances like Mensa and Rose would be happy to change side to balance the strength if you are not enough, but only if you git gud because they're not masochists, what everyone want to see is 2 or more sides who fight to see who is better, not one side that has to lower its level because the other side is unable to do better.

Ffs, did you read the NPO posts? The rest of the game doesnt have enough score or natioms to hit the syndisphere

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Greatkitteh was here.-

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For TEst:

I like the idea of paperless, it's nice to have paperless alliances in this game, it's an interesting variant, but you can't complain on how things are going

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Who is trying to oppose the Syndispehre?"

"SK and Valyria"

"Ask for help"

"They said no because we just rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Who can counter spy and help us?"

"Alpha and Fark"

"Ask for help"

"They said no because we just rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"We should ask to GPA"

"We can't, GPA is dead"

"Why?"

"Ehm... we rolled them"

"Uh, right..."

 

"Oh shit Syndisphere declared war on us, what we can do?"

"Why they did?"

"Because if they don't stop us we roll everyone and they have no rivals"

"Uh, right..."

 

 

For everyone outside Syndisphere:

Git gud and work together, you can be better but if you don't try you will never understand it.

Check the treaty web, NPO, VE, UPN, SK, Acadia, Polaris, Valyria, Roz Wei, Arrgh, TEst, NK, Apha, Fark, Valkyrie, Lordaeron, GCB, WTF, OoS, HBE, TBE, NW, TFP, Vox Populi, do you realize how much potential you have? Put all that shit together and git gud, if you can do it you're scary as !@#$ for us, you only lose when you stop trying.

Also alliances like Mensa and Rose would be happy to change side to balance the strength if you are not enough, but only if you git gud because they're not masochists, what everyone want to see is 2 or more sides who fight to see who is better, not one side that has to lower its level because the other side is unable to do better.

Ffs, did you read the NPO posts? The rest of the game doesnt have enough score or natioms to hit the syndisphere

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Look, Syndicate gave me a nice pool to help cool myself off.  BK is my wingman on the highway to the danger zone.  Guardian is like my sister.  Rose is the fling, that could potentially be a relationship.

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For TEst:

I like the idea of paperless, it's nice to have paperless alliances in this game, it's an interesting variant, but you can't complain on how things are going

 

We're complaining? 

TEst also didn't ask anyone for help. 

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Ffs, did you read the NPO posts? The rest of the game doesnt have enough score or natioms to hit the syndisphere

That's where you have to git gud.

 

 

>Mensa

>Changing sides

 

I can't live without these dank memes though

Dio needs JoJo, Mensa needs a great rival.

I know you guys love to fight, the best fight is the hardest one, and the hardest one is Syndisphere.

But Dio needs to works with Kars, Esidisi and Wamuu to beat JoJo and his friends, and actually the other sphere is Oingo and Boingo.

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Oh trust me.  I want Mensa to fight Syndicate, BK, and TKR. :P  Granted it'd be more of a scrimmage setting, but it'd be fun to see what would be done.  I already told Pre that if Mensa was closer in city count/score with TEst, I'd have asked for a 1v1 with them.

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That's where you have to git gud.

 

 

 

Go read the NPOsts and tell me git gud again. Edited by greatkitteh

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>Honestly the only thing I don't like about them is the tendency to roll and trash talk allies that they once speak fondly of (SK, TEst) the moment they turn into the enemy.

 

SK leaks caused way too many problems. If it seems like we suddenly started disliking them when they dropped us, it's because we no longer had to worry about Pfeiffer/Vanek !@#$ing at us about shit talking an ally in public. Dropping us and then immediately (taking a bit of liberty with the meaning of immediately here) joining a war against us certainly didn't help either.

Praise Dio. Every !@#$ing day.

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>Honestly the only thing I don't like about them is the tendency to roll and trash talk allies that they once speak fondly of (SK, TEst) the moment they turn into the enemy.

 

SK leaks caused way too many problems. If it seems like we suddenly started disliking them when they dropped us, it's because we no longer had to worry about Pfeiffer/Vanek !@#$ at us about shit talking an ally in public. Dropping us and then immediately (taking a bit of liberty with the meaning of immediately here) joining a war against us certainly didn't help either.

SK only leaked in first time though iirc

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Everyone is so !@#$ing obsessed with spheres and hegemonies and game health.

You want to know why I signed Mensa? I !@#$ing like those goofs. I didn't want to "switch sides", i didn't want to "form a bloc" and I didn't want to "change the game". I like them so much would have probably signed them if the were trash.

People on both "sides" need to stop giving a !@#$ about "winning", which is a moot point in a consistent state game, and build actual relations. If you're signed to someone you don't like, drop em. If you want to sign someone you don't like to roll someone else, !@#$ off and do your own rolling.

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Everyone is so !@#$ obsessed with spheres and hegemonies and game health.

 

You want to know why I signed Mensa? I !@#$ like those goofs. I didn't want to "switch sides", i didn't want to "form a bloc" and I didn't want to "change the game". I like them so much would have probably signed them if the were trash.

 

People on both "sides" need to stop giving a !@#$ about "winning", which is a moot point in a consistent state game, and build actual relations. If you're signed to someone you don't like, drop em. If you want to sign someone you don't like to roll someone else, !@#$ off and do your own rolling.

So. . . You like kastor?

 

Wait shit, NPO signed kastor. !@#$

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