Attack of the numbers.

[Prefontaine]

When ParaCov was at its height of numbers strength I created a thread (or at least notes for a radio show) that showed how much of the strength they had consolidated in their sphere. I'd do the same as an alliance by alliance break down but TI sort of kills that at the moment. As TI is predominately Syndicate Sphere members though we can look at the Sphere as a whole. 

 

Based on an at most 1 M-type treaty chain away from an alliance in the cluster we have the following alliances treatied to one another:

 

Treasure Island <> Black Knights <> Knights Radiant <> Pantheon <> Mensa <> Syndicate <> Teutonic Knights <> Brotherhood of Clouds <> Cornerstone <> Chola <> Guardian <> Rose <> Coalition

 

The following alliances have a protectorate with at least one of these alliances.

 

Hogwarts <> Chakrayuhg <> Ragnarok <> House Stark <> Charming Friends <> Light Federation <> Order of White Rose <> Resplendant <> Commonwealth <> Earth Space Defense <> Grumpy Old Bastards

 

The total Strength of the alliances M-Treatied is 1,135,130

The total Strength of their protectorates is: 236,528

The combined strength is 1,371,658

 

The top 10 alliances strength is currently 1,393,595

 

OO/Syndisphere currently have 81.45% of the strength of the top 10 within their sphere. If you combine the strength of their protectorates into that they have 98.42% of the strength of the top 10 within. 

 

While Treasure Island skews some of these statistics I think after everyone returns to their homes I still believe the current dominant sphere will have a stronger % strangle hold on the numbers game, and they know how to use their numbers much better. 

 

Links to the Previous thread involving ParaCov:

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12203-the-top-10-and-you/

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12203-the-top-10-and-you/page-2#entry228513

Edited November 21, 2016 by Prefontaine

[Charles Bolivar]

Cynic caused this.

[Eumirbago]

Less than 2% left guys. Keep it up!

[Vack]

And TEst is basically the other 20% of the top 10. This is a problem...

[Betulius]

And TEst is basically the other 20% of the top 10. This is a problem...

 

More like 12%. Roz Wei has grown quite a bit.

[Jroc]

And TEst is basically the other 20% of the top 10. This is a problem...

All depends on perspective, where one may see a problem. Others see an opportunity

[Conner Temple]

Cynic caused this.

Cynic is the issue of a lot of things

Edited November 21, 2016 by Conner Temple

[Insert Name Here]

There's only 1 difference, unless I'm way off and what I've been reading is completely false: OO/Mensynd got where they are today by merit (through wars). So I don't see why we should break up, just because the other side is unable to reclaim their hegemoney.

 

I'm as open minded as the next guy and I frankly wouldn't mind if t$ and all our allies went paperless. But imo supremacy must be earned, not handed over by the dominant side.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[hadesflames]

There's only 1 difference, unless I'm way off and what I've been reading is completely false: OO/Mensynd got where they are today by merit (through wars). So I don't see why we should break up, just because the other side is unable to reclaim their hegemoney.

 

I'm as open minded as the next guy and I frankly wouldn't mind if t$ and all our allies went paperless. But imo supremacy must be earned, not handed over by the dominant side.

 

Just my 2 cents.

And...errr...Who's asking you exactly to hand over supremacy...And to who exactly? Paragon is dead, TC is dead and paperless is entirely insignificant next to your sphere even if they all got together. So, who exactly is asking you to hand over supremacy to someone, and who would that someone be exactly? lol.

 

The only thing any one wants is to make the game worth playing again. I personally don't want anyone to have supremacy. That's &#33;@#&#036;ing boring. It doesn't matter who has the supremacy, everyone loses when no one is having fun in a GAME.

[Roquentin]

There's only 1 difference, unless I'm way off and what I've been reading is completely false: OO/Mensynd got where they are today by merit (through wars). So I don't see why we should break up, just because the other side is unable to reclaim their hegemoney.

 

I'm as open minded as the next guy and I frankly wouldn't mind if t$ and all our allies went paperless. But imo supremacy must be earned, not handed over by the dominant side.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

What hegemoney dude? I think Chaunce kind of pointed it out on discord, but there was no other Hegemonic power except the one that tS helped take down originally which was mostly comprised of alliances that tS subsequently aligned with. Now with Rose on your side, you have  almost the entirety of the former Guardiansphere. You had SK before, too but they're gone. In order to have been a hegemoney, Paracov would have to have been a lot more unified than it ever was and actually win a war lol.

 

Not whining or anything, but this is kind of revisionist history. You're newer, so maybe it's a mistake.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Roquentin

[Insert Name Here]

And...errr...Who's asking you exactly to hand over supremacy...And to who exactly? Paragon is dead, TC is dead and paperless is entirely insignificant next to your sphere even if they all got together. So, who exactly is asking you to hand over supremacy to someone, and who would that someone be exactly? lol.

 

The only thing any one wants is to make the game worth playing again. I personally don't want anyone to have supremacy. That's !@#$ boring. It doesn't matter who has the supremacy, everyone loses when no one is having fun in a GAME.

 

Several people have been stating OO/Mensynd should split. If you want to make the game worth playing again (for you), do something about it! We can try and lose on purpose so you can have your fun tho. 

 

What hegemoney dude? I think Chaunce kind of pointed it out on discord, but there was no other Hegemonic power except the one that tS helped take down originally which was mostly comprised of alliances that tS subsequently aligned with. Now with Rose on your side, you have  almost the entirety of the former Guardiansphere. In order to have been a hegemoney, Paracov would have to have been a lot more unified than it ever was and actually win a war lol.

 

Not whining or anything, but this is kind of revisionist history. You're newer, so maybe it's a mistake.

 

So you're seriously telling me the likes of UPN, DEIC and BoC (all in Covenant at the time) weren't a force to reckoned with before Oktoberfest?

[Roquentin]

Several people have been stating OO/Mensynd should split. If you want to make the game worth playing again (for you), do something about it! We can try and lose on purpose so you can have your fun tho. 

 

 

So you're seriously telling me the likes of UPN, DEIC and BoC (all in Covenant at the time) weren't a force to reckoned with before Oktoberfest?

 

They were big but I don't recall them actually doing anything with it until Oktoberfest and then they fell apart.  Having stats doesn't make you a hegemoney. You have to actually dominate for a while and use it. In this analysis, they would have been a "hegemoney" for 2 months max which was mostly because they didn't fight in Proxy. I'd say if they had been a hegemoney, they would have been able to get more external alliances to help them ahead of the conflict rather than merely obtaining limited support from VE on the defensive and nothing from anyone else except EoS which was a micro.

[Licorice]

 

If you want to make the game worth playing again (for you), do something about it!

 

*dramatic gasp*

 

Think about the feelings of we poor lazy basement dwellers D :

[Kastor]

Several people have been stating OO/Mensynd should split. If you want to make the game worth playing again (for you), do something about it! We can try and lose on purpose so you can have your fun tho. 

 

 

 

So you're seriously telling me the likes of UPN, DEIC and BoC (all in Covenant at the time) weren't a force to reckoned with before Oktoberfest?

You have a weird view on the game.

[Insert Name Here]

They were big but I don't recall them actually doing anything with it until Oktoberfest and then they fell apart.  Having stats doesn't make you a hegemoney. You have to actually dominate for a while and use it. In this analysis, they would have been a "hegemoney" for 2 months max which was mostly because they didn't fight in Proxy. I'd say if they had been a hegemoney, they would have been able to get more external alliances to help them ahead of the conflict rather than merely obtaining limited support from VE on the defensive and nothing from anyone else except EoS which was a micro.

 

From what I've read, UPN alienated a few friennds by going on the offensive against t$, TEst (who in theory have never belonged to a specific side, even tho they've aligned more often with t$'s) and SK in Oktoberfest. The biggest example of this is Mensa, who had a treaty with both t$ and UPN and clearly stated: "whoever hits the other one, we're gonna help the defender". Covenant and co. were in a comfortable position before Oktoberfest (again, going from what I've read) and they made a bad move by preempting those 3 alliances.

 

Point being: t$'s side was once the underdog. They've earned their current position. If people feel like our side is unbeatable, then I'd personally be more than willing to embrace an alternative route (like being paperless, even if just for a while). I'm pretty sure it will happen naturally, since things change and OO/Mensynd won't stay together forever. If you ask me, the biggest hope of the other side is our boredom. If you guys mind your own business for a while and don't do anything stupid like you did in "Ground Zero" war, we might get hopelessly bored and split.

 

You have a weird view on the game.

 

Please elaborate! 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Insert Name Here

[Eumirbago]

The Syndisphere must do its utter best to achieve 100%

 

On a real tho, everyone in the sphere should continue building up all its lost progress because of dominating in war. Get in the top tier and may another situation like the last never happen again.

[hadesflames]

Several people have been stating OO/Mensynd should split. If you want to make the game worth playing again (for you), do something about it! We can try and lose on purpose so you can have your fun tho. 

You're completely missing the point. Something like a split between tS and OO is not the same as handing someone else supremacy. It's also not the same as being asked to lose on purpose so that others can have fun. I would also appreciate it if you didn't say ignorant nonsense like "if you don't like that we're in charge, do something about it!" Wth exactly do you think a 40k score alliance like HBE can do about it? I'm sure your sphere would be shaking in their boots if they find out HBE was gunning for them! /s As for any sort of diplomatic approach, your side doesn't want to dissolve. You're literally saying it yourself. So what option is left? Joining your side? That's not doing something about it. That's becoming part of the problem. What I want isn't to stop losing, it's to start having fun. That doesn't mean I want to continue losing mind, it just means that there's no point in winning if you're not having fun.

 

But hey, if you think have 0 opposition is fun, then whatever.

[Insert Name Here]

You're completely missing the point. Something like a split between tS and OO is not the same as handing someone else supremacy. It's also not the same as being asked to lose on purpose so that others can have fun. I would also appreciate it if you didn't say ignorant nonsense like "if you don't like that we're in charge, do something about it!" Wth exactly do you think a 40k score alliance like HBE can do about it? I'm sure your sphere would be shaking in their boots if they find out HBE was gunning for them! /s As for any sort of diplomatic approach, your side doesn't want to dissolve. You're literally saying it yourself. So what option is left? Joining your side? That's not doing something about it. That's becoming part of the problem. What I want isn't to stop losing, it's to start having fun. That doesn't mean I want to continue losing mind, it just means that there's no point in winning if you're not having fun.

 

But hey, if you think have 0 opposition is fun, then whatever.

 

 

You get triggrered way too easily. No need for adjectives such as "ignorant", but let's move on. I wasn't referring to HBE in particular. I was referring to our traditional enemies or each and every alliance that wants to stop us.

 

The position OO/Mensynd is in right now wasn't easily earned at all. That's why I believe many people on our side are reluctant to take a gamble and maybe try to shake things up. That and the fact that we really like each other.

 

On the other hand, I understand your point of view. Like I said before, I'd be completely open to my side going paperless, even tho I realize it'd be strategically stupid from us to split. Several people on our side are also tired of fighting the same alliances every war.

 

At the end of the day - and like I mentioned previously - nothing is eternal and I'm pretty sure some day alliances like BK, TKR, Mensa or t$ will go there separate ways. It may happen due to us getting hopelessly bored, some sort of feud/tension between 2 or more of the major alliances in our sphere or something else that we don't expect.

 

I don't know how many people on my side would be willing to take a gamble and go paperless, but I wouldn't worry if I were you guys (our traditional enemies). No one wins / loses every time. Your time will come. When will it happen? I have no clue.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Insert Name Here

[Keegoz]

People finally catching on to what I have been preaching for a few months now. Too bad it's pretty much too late to do anything about it.

 

Best hope is that they split or have some sort of civil war (Honestly depends on whether any of the alliances listed have leadership with backbone to actually make a move for themselves).

 

Worst is that they kill the game after rolling anyone not in the sphere and people leave out of sheer boredom.

[Placentica]

I think it's a bit naive to think that any dominating group cares if the game is killed off or if "opposition" leave the game.  Being able to build your nations in complete security is exactly what you would want.  There will always be easy curbstomps people can get into.  Sure, maybe in 1-2 years, maybe there will literally be no one left.  As it stands right now you have plenty of alliances that the hegemoney could curbstomp 10v1 style.

 

But we are 2 months into a multi-year phase.  We haven't even gotten to the curbstomp part where random alliances are just rolled because. 

[Vack]

Several people have been stating OO/Mensynd should split. If you want to make the game worth playing again (for you), do something about it! We can try and lose on purpose so you can have your fun tho. 

 

 

So you're seriously telling me the likes of UPN, DEIC and BoC (all in Covenant at the time) weren't a force to reckoned with before Oktoberfest?

 

There is a great deal of difference to what tC was prior to Oktoberfest and what Syndi-OO is now. Call me a defeatist or a coward, there's no getting around the straightforward, plain as day fact that Syndi-OO have too much power consolidated within their sphere to be challenged by any amount of outside pressure. It isn't as close to doomsday as a lot of people believe but the chances of the preconditions for the advancement of major politics in game being actualised gets lower by the day. Let me run through several scenarios that could potentially happen. 

 

1. Syndi-OO break up.

This is pretty hard to put my finger on, as the distinction between the two halves of this sphere is really nothing more than a piece of history. BK and TKR would probably form the OO half, maybe Cornerstone, take their side, maybe Pantheon take their side, who knows. The breaking apart of Syndisphere from the Obsidian Order effectively would start with BK/TKR breaking up with t$, and from there it's anybody's game for which side the other large alliances over there take.

But lets assume the division is roughly 50/50, OO and t$ spheres are as strong as one another. This leaves two powers who can challenge one another, and provides a reason for the scattered remnants of the rest of the game to consolidate around a central power, likely NPO but there are others who could lead that (Pantheon, if they swing, SK/Valyria sphere depending on its success). Now the only thing left for that group to do is magically get the paperless sphere to side with them, against the favourable outcome, and you have three roughly even factions. Great!

What is wrong with this route? Well it's wishful thinking to believe that the 50/50 split would happen, and that opens up a whole new branch of bullshit theories and questions. It's also wishful thinking to believe that the third entity would be able to match up with the other two. It's also probably not going to happen. As much as you hear people from that side discuss the hegemoney and how it needs to split, t$ and TKR wouldn't just split up without an actual, legitimate reason, and certainly wouldn't artificially inject drama and conflict for the sake of making the game interesting.

 

2. The paperless sphere side with the former Paracov alliances and SK/ Valyria

This one yields no possible chance of success, be real. The paperless sphere are some of the most competent fighters in the game but the rest of our "side" isn't. And it wouldn't matter even if they were because if Syndi-OO were to be beaten back and sat on, they could prolong the war and turn it into a slugfest where the side with the deeper pockets wins. And if they didn't have deep pockets before, they certainly do now. But lets just assume the new group win and Syndi-OO surrender. Would that really be all it would take? It's taken four wars to totally pummel the former Paracov into total submission. Can the new side really bank on them all staying together for at least four wars? The paperless alliances? I really doubt it.

 

3. Game reset

Yeah no. The same sides would just form all over again, and even if they didn't it wouldn't matter because this won't happen anyway.

 

Anyway. It is a ridiculous thing to say "do something about it" like we can plainly deny the maths of it, like we can force our membership to become active. The time where you get to say it is our responsibility to "fix" this ended months ago, no amount of external pressure will ever topple the hegemoney, and so long as you continue to pursue progression and retention of member alliances you bring the game closer to death.

[Charles Bolivar]

You forgot the 4th option of where former paracov alliances and affiliated alliances either implode and reform new alliances aligned with the current ruling sphere or current paracov alliances do much like what Rose has done and align themselves with the ruling sphere. Such an event would see inevitable internal tension occur within the ruling sphere which would only be exacerbated further by the lack of an opposing sphere. Over time such internal tension will naturally and inevitably end in war.

 

The nature of hegemonic spheres is largely cyclical, two spheres battle it out, one loses and the other becomes dominant, the losing sphere eventually implodes or becomes a fringe remnant, the dominant sphere becomes larger on new found success but inevitable internal drama and rivalry creates tension leading to the sphere breaking apart into opposing sides thus starting the cycle all over again.

 

Now, by my guess we are in our roughly third, perhaps fourth, such cycle already and sure the current ruling sphere's dominance is certainly more pronounced but it still falls within the general cyclical pattern all the same. It sucks to be on a losing side opposing the dominant sphere but that is just the nature of the game at the end of the day.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Night King

[Eumirbago]

My sphere has a weak FA game and I shouldn't succeed

I completely agree. Keep buying dem cities Syndisphere! Two more Ws for double digits.

[Aisha Greyjoy]

Too bad there is no LiquidMercury here to lead the losers to their karmic promised land.  Or is that who you think you are, Prefontaine?

Edited November 22, 2016 by Aisha Greyjoy

[Chunky Monkey]

The one true fix to this "problem" is and has always been fresh people, people with no preconcieved notions of the players or even the game. Fresh people bring in new politics, new powers, new ideas, both to challenge the old, and to shake it up. If you look back at that other game's history, alliances joining like GOONS and dare I say, /b/ (before it went thermonuclear) kept the game fresh and active. Once new players stopped joining and things settled into what they eventually became, that is when people started complaining that one side was too powerful and that they couldn't win. Basically if we want this game to succeed where that one has stagnated, we need to keep Sheepy active and committed to developing and promoting the game so we can keep an influx of new players to keep churning the machine.