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Gun Control, Facts Vs Liberals


Donald Trump
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You are not worth replying to because you cannot even recognize the most stupid of your claims for what they are. Case in point:

 

"Votes mean nothing when there isn't firepower to back it up."

 

Oh, really? That must be why all the people in European democracies are living under the iron fist of their government. They can vote, but they don't have the guns, so their "oppressive liberal governments" must have turned the country into a dictatorship. Oh wait. That didn't happen. I WONDER WHY?

 

Jesus Christ, you people are too !@#$ easy.

Haha, that is too funny.  You seriously need to open your eyes if you actually think Europeans are free and have any power.  The globalist European Union says otherwise where the European people are treated as nothing more than pawns.  A majority of Europeans have woken up and don't want the massive influx of "refugees" that are destroying their culture and defiling their homeland.  They despise their "government" that cares more about a violent, rapist pedophile 23 year old Muslim than they do about the daughters and wives who have suffered from this multicultural experiment.  Of course, they are powerless to do anything about it because countries like the U.K. have disarmed their entire populace.  Here in America, we won't tolerate such nonsense(thanks to our 2nd Amendment) and if the barbarians try to start the amount of shit they've pulled over there, then we'll send them straight to their Allah where they can meet him in person.  This may be the last time I reply to you in this thread, because you obviously just ignore argument while perpetuating your false narrative that comes straight from your feelings rather than critical thinking.  So far, you have yet to refute anything I've said while assuming that you've already won.  Quit acting like a child or the big boys are just going to have to ignore you.

Edited by Octavius

"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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Haha, that is too funny.  You seriously need to open your eyes if you actually think Europeans are free and have any power.  The globalist European Union says otherwise where the European people are treated as nothing more than pawns.  A majority of Europeans have woken up and don't want the massive influx of "refugees" that are destroying their culture and defiling their homeland.  They despise their "government" that cares more about a violent, rapist pedophile 23 year old Muslim than they do about the daughters and wives who have suffered from this multicultural experiment.  Of course, they are powerless to do anything about it because countries like the U.K. have disarmed their entire populace.  Here in America, we won't tolerate such nonsense(thanks to our 2nd Amendment) and if the barbarians try to start the amount of shit they've pulled over there, then we'll send them straight to their Allah where they can meet him in person.  This may be the last time I reply to you in this thread, because you obviously just ignore argument while perpetuating your false narrative that comes straight from your feelings rather than critical thinking.  So far, you have yet to refute anything I've said while assuming that you've already won.  Quit acting like a child or the big boys are just going to have to ignore you.

 

You are more delusional than mujahideen who expect to have 40 virgins in heaven after blowing themselves up. What a pity that the world's superpower has such a horrible education system that brainwashed people like you continue to exist.

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This just writes itself

 

 

Nothing can convince kiddos who are willfully ignorant. I challenged you and him to come up with an example when the election results were overridden by the evil gubments because people didn't have firearms in Europe. You failed to name one example. Your laughable claims are empirically debunked, yet you guys will continue to ignore reality rather than questioning your false prior belief. Sad, really. Organisms that cannot learn are just pitiful.

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Nothing can convince kiddos who are willfully ignorant. I challenged you and him to come up with an example when the election results were overridden by the evil gubments because people didn't have firearms in Europe. You failed to name one example. Your laughable claims are empirically debunked, yet you guys will continue to ignore reality rather than questioning your false prior belief. Sad, really. Organisms that cannot learn are just pitiful.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/16/british-police-arrest-man-for-syrian-migrants-facebook-post-promise-zero-tolerance-on-offence-online/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/09/2736678/

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35470723

 

lol at you thinking that the U.K. isn't a police state and that the "democracy" still stands.  I cannot name just a single example because the whole of Western Europe is suffering from this.  Why don't you actually open your eyes and stop listening to the mainstream media like the brainwashed sheep that you are.  In the end, people like you are the ones who won't be laughing when reality hits and you're no longer living in your little isolated Utopian bubble.  By then of course it will be too late, but there are just some who can only learn the hard way...

Edited by Octavius

"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/16/british-police-arrest-man-for-syrian-migrants-facebook-post-promise-zero-tolerance-on-offence-online/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/09/2736678/

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35470723

 

lol at you thinking that the U.K. isn't a police state and that the "democracy" still stands.  I cannot name just a single example because the whole of Western Europe is suffering from this.  Why don't you actually open your eyes and stop listening to the mainstream media like the brainwashed sheep that you are.  In the end, people like you are the ones who won't be laughing when reality hits and you're no longer living in your little isolated Utopian bubble.  By then of course it will be too late, but there are just some who can only learn the hard way...

 

Look pal. Being stupid is not a crime, but it is still frowned upon. I am asking you something very concrete. A concrete statement that invalidates your edgy sentence: "Votes mean nothing when there isn't firepower to back it up." I asked you to come up with a SINGLE instance where the results of a vote was OVERRIDDEN in a European country with stronger gun laws than the US. And you came up empty. Your links are completely irrelevant in proving or debunking your false statement. But feel free to continue to act like a child while you cover your ears and scream "LALALA I CANNOT HEAR YOU, MY FALSE STATEMENT IS ACTUALLY CORRECT!!"

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Look pal. Being stupid is not a crime, but it is still frowned upon. I am asking you something very concrete. A concrete statement that invalidates your edgy sentence: "Votes mean nothing when there isn't firepower to back it up." I asked you to come up with a SINGLE instance where the results of a vote was OVERRIDDEN in a European country with stronger gun laws than the US. And you came up empty. Your links are completely irrelevant in proving or debunking your false statement. But feel free to continue to act like a child while you cover your ears and scream "LALALA I CANNOT HEAR YOU, MY FALSE STATEMENT IS ACTUALLY CORRECT!!"

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"In 2010, incidents involving firearms injured or killed more than 105,000 individuals in the United States..." Holy shit, that's a lot of people

 

For decades, Republicans have forbidden any federal gun research.  Maybe its time we actually used science.   Stop presupposing the answer, and lets get some research.

Of course the place with the most guns (the U.S.) is going to have the highest rate of deaths by gun, just as a hypothetical country with the highest numbers of laser blasters is going to have the highest number of deaths from laser blasters compared to other countries with very few or no laser blasters. Put another way, in a hypothetical country that has no swimming pools, there will be no swimming pool deaths. A country with no ropes will have no suicides by hanging, but may have plenty of other suicides by other means. Since a person who is murdered probably doesn’t care how they died, just that they are dead, what we really want to compare are all homicides by country, by any method. 

 

The following are examples of why the CDC research ban on guns was deemed justified: In 1989 a top CDC official announced, “We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities.†Dr. O’Carroll later said he had been misquoted and disavowed any pre-existing agenda. But his successor Dr. Mark Rosenberg was quoted in the Washington Post as wanting his agency to create a public perception of firearms as “dirty, deadly - and banned.†“Data on [assault weapons’] risks are not needed, because they have no redeeming social value. -Jerome Kassirer, M.D., former editor, New England Journal of Medicine, writing in vol. 326, no. 17, page 1161 (April 23, 1992). (Source)

In reality, it was shown that the CDC was only giving grants to pro gun-control people, making statements like "guns are a virus that need to be eradicated," or "assault weapons have no redeeming value, and therefore no data is needed to justify banning them". The CDC was even caught giving grants to gun-control groups to organize protests. If the FDA made the statement that marijuana was evil, and needed to be eradicated, wouldn't people want them to get a slap on the wrist as well? Any other government agency (and any private firm) has been free to study “gun-violence†in the last 20 years. All this “the CDC cannot do research†is now a political maneuver to try and make the NRA look bad. (Source)

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To be honest I am only in this debate with you because I read your post and saw that specific line, which in my experiences is absolutely true that all of my handgun ammo is more expensive than my rifle ammo. It may not be the case with other ammo but in my collection it is complete bullshit what you claim. I am not trying to be difficult or argumentative- but a lot of your absolutes are not always the case across the country.

 

Did you mean innumerable? 

 

Probably, I have been super busy for the last 2 days so have been on mobile.  Generic rifle ammo is more expensive than generic handgun ammo.

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In 1938 Hitler disarmed Jews in German, long after the Nazis had consolidated total power and long after they had subjugated German Jews, taking not just their guns, but their citizenship, businesses, livelihoods  homes, and most other possessions.  Their guns were unable to save them.

What about the Jews with guns in Warsaw, Paris, Prague?

 

Generally, Hitler only took guns from Jews (and gypsies etc.)  He gave them to everyone else.

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Are you aware that among those 4 figures, only Hitler came into power in a democracy?

 

Rahl will debunk you on Hitler's case, so I will take a break on that one.

Playing tag team now arguing the relevance of the 2nd Amendment. Luckily you guys are not in charge, Mac daddy.

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One could argue that Hitler himself wasn't even elected into his position, since he was appointed as a Chancellor by Hindenburg. He later became the Führer of Germany with the death of Hindenburg in 1934. However, the NSDAP did indeed obtain parliamentary majority before 1934.

Edited by Shiho Nishizumi
 
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i think the point trump was making when he sent that meme was that its easier to create a totalitarian regime when there are no firearms available to the general public - under risk of rebellion. Even though hitler was elected under a democracy there certainly would have been jews, communists, basically everyone who was not aryan would have had beef wit hitler and thus would have been happy to star a rebellion in germany, but they couldnt because guns werent widely available. same goes for the rest of the regimes listed.

 

thats kind of the whole point of the 2nd amendment, to prevent the liberties of america outlined by the founding fathers being curbed or infringed. Thus it prevents authoritarian regimes from gaining power. if they tried, their efforts would be undone after 8 years anyway. there are plenty of safeguards against authoritarian movements and the second amendment is one of them.

This.

"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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First, Hitler as elected. If you need a class on how Weimar republic worked then go take a class.

 

i think the point trump was making when he sent that meme was that its easier to create a totalitarian regime when there are no firearms available to the general public - under risk of rebellion. Even though hitler was elected under a democracy there certainly would have been jews, communists, basically everyone who was not aryan would have had beef wit hitler and thus would have been happy to star a rebellion in germany, but they couldnt because guns werent widely available. same goes for the rest of the regimes listed.

 

thats kind of the whole point of the 2nd amendment, to prevent the liberties of america outlined by the founding fathers being curbed or infringed. Thus it prevents authoritarian regimes from gaining power. if they tried, their efforts would be undone after 8 years anyway. there are plenty of safeguards against authoritarian movements and the second amendment is one of them.

As to this:

Garbage. Guns were widely available and no revolution was initiated against Hitler. He took away the Jews guns along with all their other property.

 

And how did thise armed Warsaw Jews fare?

 

In a democracy its easier to create a totalitarian regime when you elect one into power.

 

Guns nor the removal of them had anything to do with Hitler or what he did.

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Of course the place with the most guns (the U.S.) is going to have the highest rate of deaths by gun, just as a hypothetical country with the highest numbers of laser blasters is going to have the highest number of deaths from laser blasters compared to other countries with very few or no laser blasters. Put another way, in a hypothetical country that has no swimming pools, there will be no swimming pool deaths. A country with no ropes will have no suicides by hanging, but may have plenty of other suicides by other means. Since a person who is murdered probably doesn’t care how they died, just that they are dead, what we really want to compare are all homicides by country, by any method. 

 

The following are examples of why the CDC research ban on guns was deemed justified: In 1989 a top CDC official announced, “We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities.†Dr. O’Carroll later said he had been misquoted and disavowed any pre-existing agenda. But his successor Dr. Mark Rosenberg was quoted in the Washington Post as wanting his agency to create a public perception of firearms as “dirty, deadly - and banned.†“Data on [assault weapons’] risks are not needed, because they have no redeeming social value. -Jerome Kassirer, M.D., former editor, New England Journal of Medicine, writing in vol. 326, no. 17, page 1161 (April 23, 1992). (Source)

In reality, it was shown that the CDC was only giving grants to pro gun-control people, making statements like "guns are a virus that need to be eradicated," or "assault weapons have no redeeming value, and therefore no data is needed to justify banning them". The CDC was even caught giving grants to gun-control groups to organize protests. If the FDA made the statement that marijuana was evil, and needed to be eradicated, wouldn't people want them to get a slap on the wrist as well? Any other government agency (and any private firm) has been free to study “gun-violence†in the last 20 years. All this “the CDC cannot do research†is now a political maneuver to try and make the NRA look bad. (Source)

Given that the CDC is led by political appointees, I can see some validity in keeping the CDC from doing the research. (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Politics/story?id=3235565&page=1)  This from 2007 shows the CDC doing very pro-republican things when led by a Bush appointee, so its clearly not laser focused on just health, but includes political considerations.

 

See Wisdomtree, honest people with different opinions and open minds can change their opinions on things when presented with good facts.  Its not game over for us all yet.

Edited by Aisha Greyjoy
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First, Hitler as elected. If you need a class on how Weimar republic worked then go take a class.

 

Except that he wasn't because he never won an election for a government position. He ran against Hindenburg in 1932 for presidency and lost, was appointed Chancellor in 1933, and merged both the chancellery and presidency under the title of 'Führer und Reichskanzle' in 1934, after Hindenburg's death.

 

The only election he won was that of leadership within the NSDAP.

 
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Except that he wasn't because he never won an election for a government position. He ran against Hindenburg in 1932 for presidency and lost, was appointed Chancellor in 1933, and merged both the chancellery and presidency under the title of 'Führer und Reichskanzle' in 1934, after Hindenburg's death.

 

The only election he won was that of leadership within the NSDAP.

 

"In an election held in July 1932, the Nazis won 230 governmental seats; together with the Communists, the next largest party, they made up over half of the Reichstag."

 

Could be related to his appointment as Chancellor, maybe?  ;)

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Let's talk solutions. Banning guns doesn't work. Background checks are fine, not allowing mentally ill and criminals access them legally. Otherwise, if you are a law abiding citizen, !@#$ing get a rocket launcher for all I care. Gun free zones are targets, so get rid of those. Pour a little more dough into the mental health system.

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Except that he wasn't because he never won an election for a government position. He ran against Hindenburg in 1932 for presidency and lost, was appointed Chancellor in 1933, and merged both the chancellery and presidency under the title of 'Führer und Reichskanzle' in 1934, after Hindenburg's death.

 

The only election he won was that of leadership within the NSDAP.

 

Are you really confused about how parliamentary elections work?

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Are you really confused about how parliamentary elections work?

 

Sorry for the delay. I *did* clarify in my first post that the NSDAP did obtain the majority in the Parliament, in case you missed that.

 

 

 

One could argue that Hitler himself wasn't even elected into his position, since he was appointed as a Chancellor by Hindenburg. He later became the Führer of Germany with the death of Hindenburg in 1934. However, the NSDAP did indeed obtain parliamentary majority before 1934.

 

 

Edited by Shiho Nishizumi
 
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"In an election held in July 1932, the Nazis won 230 governmental seats; together with the Communists, the next largest party, they made up over half of the Reichstag."

 

Could be related to his appointment as Chancellor, maybe?  ;)

 

Yes, having a party filled with thugs hold a sizable amount of seats on the Reichstag certainly pressured Hindenburg into selecting Hitler as Chancellor. That's about the only election they won in even ground.

 
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Sorry for the delay. I *did* clarify in my first post that the NSDAP did obtain the majority in the Parliament, in case you missed that.

 

Yet in your very next post to Kemal you seem confused about what happened.

Edited by LordRahl2

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