Rose's Surrender

[hadesflames]

Stop acting like you have no connection to NPO. Yes, we offered you terms, and you were even reasonable in what you were willing to accept. Then YOUR ally that YOU started this war with was unreasonable. They kept you in this war, not us. You don't get to decide when you get out of this war while your ally keeps us in it.

It's become beyond apparent that no one in BK understands how a negotiation works. This comment is just laughable at best.

[Beowulf the Second]

You were never humble.  I've been here for more. I and others have  had to deal with your side's bullshit for a long time actually. I mean, Eumir decides to push the persona to an extreme to troll, but there is a basis for people thinking it's somewhat reflective of the tS side due to how you guys act in general. In every war, you were as boastful and arrogant as possible. There was never any real good will extended except to those you saw as being potential swing alliances. You went out of your way to stigmatize specific alliances and people to the greatest possible extent. The signs of how you guys would develop were there from the very start. I can't remember a single instance where you were graceful in victory except when you wanted to ODP the alliance and the motivations were always questionable there.

 

There is not in fact a basis for Eumir's troll personality being reflective of the tS side, but I'm sure he will be thrilled to hear that you think it. There are a lot of firebrands in alliances; t$ included.

 

It's ridiculous to think that intrinsically shtty people = tS side. Perhaps you don't appreciate the gloating coming from certain people when we win, but don't make the mistake of thinking that your side is special and would be especially humble if our situations were switched. Hell, I've seen some of you guys gloat from your losing positions.

 

As for the rest of your implications, I can't tell if you are talking about FA moves made by government, in which case you are complaining about simply the politics aspect of the game, or if you believe again that anyone on this side of Orbis is a horrible person.

[Tiber]

It's become beyond apparent that no one in BK understands how a negotiation works. This comment is just laughable at best.

 

You seem like someone that would offer $10,000 for a $500,000 house, get told to gtfo, and then tell all your friends that the realtor didn't know how to negotiate.

[Roquentin]

There is not in fact a basis for Eumir's troll personality being reflective of the tS side, but I'm sure he will be thrilled to hear that you think it. There are a lot of firebrands in alliances; t$ included.

 

It's ridiculous to think that intrinsically shtty people = tS side. Perhaps you don't appreciate the gloating coming from certain people when we win, but don't make the mistake of thinking that your side is special and would be especially humble if our situations were switched. Hell, I've seen some of you guys gloat from your losing positions.

 

As for the rest of your implications, I can't tell if you are talking about FA moves made by government, in which case you are complaining about simply the politics aspect of the game, or if you believe again that anyone on this side of Orbis is a horrible person.

Even leaderships on your side get into the habit of open gloating and antagonization with call out topics even.

 

There's a crucial distinction. I can see how it turns out when you guys win since we have a track record to go off of.

 

The people on the losing side have generally taken softer approaches to their enemies and always try to reach accommodations(much to my chagrin since it usually would make our side less effective and make losses worse) and don't have the same kind of animosity you guys hold. They have been idealistic to some extent and probably wouldn't be very harsh on anyone. Like greatkitteh was talking about Hans. Even if you had the lost the last war and we were evil NPO and demanding extortionate reps, we would have been blocked on it so fast by Paracov.

 

I'm not really commenting on anyone's actual personality so your other assumption is correct. The problem is the worst has been brought in certain people by their continued winning streak. Many have never had to deal with adversity here and can't empathize with those that they fight. Maybe you guys don't see how it comes off since it's just a game and all, but you deliberately play up the "GIT GUD SKRUB" stuff and other things that are similar.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Roquentin

[Beowulf the Second]

It's become beyond apparent that no one in BK understands how a negotiation works. This comment is just laughable at best.

 

I have no special knowledge of the current peace dealings, but from what I'm getting out of this move, BK wants to avoid a guerilla situation similar to when tS was fighting Alpha in the mud for a month prior to the last war because they couldn't agree on peace terms. 

 

They made it a group deal instead of an individual alliance deal, because the more alliances tied down in fighting, the less chance that all the alliances together will be okay with rolling around in the mud like Alpha did. Makes sense to me, if anyone who actually knows about the deal wants to chime in that'd be nice

[Roquentin]

I have no special knowledge of the current peace dealings, but from what I'm getting out of this move, BK wants to avoid a guerilla situation similar to when tS was fighting Alpha in the mud for a month prior to the last war because they couldn't agree on peace terms. 

 

They made it a group deal instead of an individual alliance deal, because the more alliances tied down in fighting, the less chance that all the alliances together will be okay with rolling around in the mud like Alpha did. Makes sense to me, if anyone who actually knows about the deal wants to chime in that'd be nice

 

They negotiated the deals with the other alliances first and then tried to stipulate our agreement would have to be tied into it after the other alliances already agreed.

[The Mad Titan]

It's become beyond apparent that no one in BK understands how a negotiation works. This comment is just laughable at best.

 

Based off what I saw it was beyond apparent that no one in HBE understands how war works. Don't kid yourself and pretend your crappy alliance matters at all in Orbis as a whole. You got off lucky with a white peace, don't pretend otherwise.

[hadesflames]

You seem like someone that would offer $10,000 for a $500,000 house, get told to gtfo, and then tell all your friends that the realtor didn't know how to negotiate.

More like someone that would offer $480k for a $500k house and then tell the realtor to !@#$ off when he asks for $1m.

[Yosodog]

They negotiated the deals with the other alliances first and then tried to stipulate our agreement would have to be tied into it after the other alliances already agreed.

 

Not sure the deal with UPN was ever agreed upon though.

[Tiber]

More like someone that would offer $480k for a $500k house and then tell the realtor to !@#$ off when he asks for $1m.

 

Then you should be telling NPO how to negotiate, not us. You are evidently really good at it, you got your alliance out with white peace! Ayy lmao.

[Apeman]

Yes I did ransom GPA. Does that mean you wanna be like me?

[hadesflames]

Then you should be telling NPO how to negotiate, not us. You are evidently really good at it, you got your alliance out with white peace! Ayy lmao.

I didn't negotiate with BK.

[Tiber]

I didn't negotiate with BK.

 

That's good. I'm sure we would have been unreasonable.

[Yosodog]

I didn't negotiate with BK.

 

You know Strum is the Emperor of BK, right? And unless I'm mistaken, you spoke with Strum for peace.

 

And in everyone's opinions, you guys got let off easy.

[Beowulf the Second]

Even leaderships on your side get into the habit of open gloating and antagonization with call out topics even.

 

There's a crucial distinction. I can see how it turns out when you guys win since we have a track record to go off of.

 

I'm not really commenting on anyone's actual personality so your other assumption is correct. The problem is the worst has been brought in certain people by their continued winning streak. Many have never had to deal with adversity here and can't empathize with those that they fight. Maybe you guys don't see how it comes off since it's just a game and all, but you deliberately play up the "GIT GUD SKRUB" stuff and other things that are similar.

 

Again, there are firebrands throughout Orbis. Some of them get put into gov, not only on our side but on both sides.

 

I can agree with you when you say that a winning streak brings out more 'git gud skrub', but you seem to still cling to your conviction that ParaCov would be humble and gracious if our situations were switched. Neither of us can prove the other wrong, but I maintain that the belief that being on the t$ side is somehow related to being a worse person is ridiculous.

 

 

The people on the losing side have generally taken softer approaches to their enemies and always try to reach accommodations(much to my chagrin since it usually would make our side less effective and make losses worse) and don't have the same kind of animosity you guys hold. They have been idealistic to some extent and probably wouldn't be very harsh on anyone. Like greatkitteh was talking about Hans. Even if you had the lost the last war and we were evil NPO and demanding extortionate reps, we would have been blocked on it so fast by Paracov.

 

Excuse me if ParaCov is full of saints, but until it's not just a story on the forums, I'll be inclined to look at Hans the same way :/

[hadesflames]

You know Strum is the Emperor of BK, right? And unless I'm mistaken, you spoke with Strum for peace.

You know that HBE is not the same thing as me? I personally have never spoken to Strum, nor did I ever personally approach *anyone* about peace for that matter.

 

And in everyone's opinions, you guys got let off easy.

Cool?

[Guest Curufinwe]

They negotiated the deals with the other alliances first and then tried to stipulate our agreement would have to be tied into it after the other alliances already agreed.

 

We discussed possible terms but it was made clear from the outset that the talks were preliminary and nothing was set in stone, partially to avoid the misunderstandings that occurred last war.  Our position then evolved with the circumstances - in between the second and third day of our talks it became apparent that Rose was seeking an out and the NPO would be the last major belligerent on your side, which left us in the unenviable position of being stuck warring the last holdout for an indefinite period.  Once it became clear you were unwilling to agree to a reasonable amount of reps, the attraction of cutting a separate deal with TC faded - why allow them to rebuild and regroup when we have to spend our time and effort fighting NPO?  Nothing was reneged on because nothing was formally agreed on before our position evolved to encompass NPO and its major allies.

 

 

I have no special knowledge of the current peace dealings, but from what I'm getting out of this move, BK wants to avoid a guerilla situation similar to when tS was fighting Alpha in the mud for a month prior to the last war because they couldn't agree on peace terms. 

 

They made it a group deal instead of an individual alliance deal, because the more alliances tied down in fighting, the less chance that all the alliances together will be okay with rolling around in the mud like Alpha did. Makes sense to me, if anyone who actually knows about the deal wants to chime in that'd be nice

 

Pretty much this, with the added caveat that we did actually offer UPN the opportunity to pay a portion of the collective reps on their behalf once it became apparent that NPO was unwilling to come to reasonable terms and end the war.

 

 

Yes I did ransom GPA. Does that mean you wanna be like me?

 

Actually my point was that it's counterintuitive to oppose 'ransom' when it's directed against your side and but be okay with it when it's practiced by your AA.  I don't actually consider what we're doing ransom (more like joint accountability), but if you do and you find it objectionable then your actions appear to belie your words.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Curufinwe

[Beowulf the Second]

Yes I did ransom GPA. Does that mean you wanna be like me?

 

I'll be the first to assure you that no one wants to be like you.

 

They are merely pointing out your hypocritical argument. If you really believe that 'ransoming is unethical', at the very least we should give you karmic retribution for what you've done.

[Sisyphus]

Sorry, I forgot that my only role in the this game is the bow down to the hegemon.

We'll look past it this time, but you better not forget it again.

[Yosodog]

You know that HBE is not the same thing as me? I personally have never spoken to Strum, nor did I ever personally approach *anyone* about peace for that matter.

 

 

Cool?

 

You are the leader of HBE, correct? So it's pretty safe to assume that you spoke to Strum.

 

Sorry for the mistake. I generally don't keep up to date with minor issues like peace with HBE.

[hadesflames]

You are the leader of HBE, correct? So it's pretty safe to assume that you spoke to Strum.

And yet I didn't. I was too busy with literally anything else.

[Yosodog]

And yet I didn't. I was too busy with literally anything else.

 

Surprised. With your negotiation skills, we might've paid you reps.

[Guest Curufinwe]

And yet I didn't. I was too busy with literally anything else.

 

With leadership like that, it's hard to believe that your AA lost the war.

[hadesflames]

Surprised. With your negotiation skills, we might've paid you reps.

Maybe, but as I said, wasn't worth my time.

[hadesflames]

With leadership like that, it's hard to believe that your AA lost the war.

I mean, we can sling shit at each other all night long, but I think I'm going to go watch random crap on youtube instead. Have fun continuing to pretend like you guys are victims and how you were totally fair about the reps you offered.