A Game of Thorns

[Keegoz]

Sooooooooooooooo... You first demand to know why we only raised issues now. When we point out that we've raised issues before and were giving SK a chance to work through them, you then demand to know why we didn't just drop them because I, a former SK member, was aware of plans they'd had before I left? Is that how Rose rolls? "You did one thing I don't like, and a former member reported it to me, !@#$ you you're gone no effort made to salvage the relationship nyah nyah!"

 

Yes, seeing their move now, we can confirm that they followed through with the same plan that had been discussed before I left. But once I was gone, there was every chance that, seeing the political situation shift, they could have acted as rational political actors and shifted gears. They could have acted as decent allies and listened to the concerns of their partners. I see no reason that tS (or any AA for that matter) would be obligated to simply burn a bridge just because an ally had a poorly considered idea.

 

But, please, continue to shift the goal posts. Let's see how far you can take it.

After talking to Manthrax explaining your post, I am willing to concede that I misread what you were getting at. It came across to me as if you knew SK was actively plotting to leave you guys and merely couldn't find the right people to do it with yet but yet tS held on anyway.

 

I more get that you personally knew that that was a goal of theirs in the past and then linked it up with their current decision to move away from both the spheres.

 

 

Because members, like myself, actively advocated for giving SK a chance, even after the leak.

 

Others advocated to drop them immediately after the last war ended and they barely made it past our FA reviews tbh but we chalked it up to their new government being inexperienced without CodyK, Tenages, Sabriel, and pretty much anyone who had any real chops and wanted to see how they would develop over time.

 

Turns out they developed away from us.

 

That's fine, but it's hard to maintain good will when good faith in our relationship was spit on with no warning.

 

And I'm even willing to look past that because I know SK has always wanted to lead their own sphere and make the big plays since I was a member back in the day.

 

That's also why I'm more miffed about them dropping Mensa than tS. The Syndicate and SK treaty was signed at a time that mutually benefited both parties, SK having been abandoned by everyone of their classic allies. But where was Mensa? Right there for it all from the beginning.

 

Really smacks of indignation to me.

I mean my original post was more aimed at the Mensa people who posted in this thread and I was not aware of how Mensa had helped them in the past. I'm just glad you have basically answered my question here so I can sign off for the night

[Eumirbago]

After talking to Manthrax explaining your post, I am willing to concede that I misread what you were getting at. It came across to me as if you knew SK was actively plotting to leave you guys and merely couldn't find the right people to do it with yet but yet tS held on anyway.

 

I more get that you personally knew that that was a goal of theirs in the past and then linked it up with their current decision to move away from both the spheres.

 

 

I mean my original post was more aimed at the Mensa people who posted in this thread and I was not aware of how Mensa had helped them in the past. I'm just glad you have basically answered my question here so I can sign off for the night

 

And these guys are "allies"

Edited August 21, 2016 by Jacob Moore

[Sisyphus]

That is amazing. No, really, that's a fantastic reputation you have if you were able to hold onto your position after all that.

Gandalf is a cool guy. I wouldn't trust him with anything that requires OPSEC, personally, but he's a joy to work with.

 

I'm not sure you got this... the leak happened long ago before SK was even considering changing spheres.

 

Also, lol at all Syndicate members shit talking at ex ally, seems like it is becoming part of their tradition. So when are you rolling SK for dumping you?

I think SK will actually have sense enough not to plot against us in public where everyone can see it (hell, I hardly saw the cancellation coming), and I don't imagine they'll even plot against us like that, either.

 

So we'll probably be fine for a while.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Wilhelm the Demented

[Buorhann]

Yeah, I can't lie.  I was pretty upset about the leaks, even moreso about how it was handled.  That's their business though.

 

I understand why alliances kept them around though, hoping things would work out better.

[Eumirbago]

I'm not sure you got this... the leak happened long ago before SK was even considering changing spheres.

 

Also, lol at all Syndicate members shit talking at ex ally, seems like it is becoming part of their tradition. So when are you rolling SK for dumping you?

 

*After

 

When they look at us the wrong way.

[Brooklyn666]

I just want clarify a few things here. Sabriel has no idea what she's talking about or is making things up, because in her short tenure in SK gov, there were no plans to form a sphere or drop anyone, so anything she says to the contrary is nonsense. The real reason she's salty is that she tried to take over SK from Tenages and got shut down, so she ragequit because we wouldn't hand her the reigns on a silver platter. I'm happy to respond to the concerns, complaints, or criticisms of literally anyone else in Mensa, tS, or NPO, except for Sabriel, because she made it clear time and time again that she's in it for herself. Any feigned concern over our cancellation is just that. It's a chance for her to make noise at us, there's no genuine concern or anger there on behalf of tS.

[Katie]

I just want clarify a few things here. Sabriel has no idea what she's talking about or is making things up, because in her short tenure in SK gov, there were no plans to form a sphere or drop anyone, so anything she says to the contrary is nonsense. The real reason she's salty is that she tried to take over SK from Tenages and got shut down, so she ragequit because we wouldn't hand her the reigns on a silver platter. I'm happy to respond to the concerns, complaints, or criticisms of literally anyone else in Mensa, tS, or NPO, except for Sabriel, because she made it clear time and time again that she's in it for herself. Any feigned concern over our cancellation is just that. It's a chance for her to make noise at us, there's no genuine concern or anger there on behalf of tS.

this might actually be the saltiest post in this thread!!! gg. did she hurt ur feelings? hug it out!!

[Sisyphus]

I just want clarify a few things here. Sabriel has no idea what she's talking about or is making things up, because in her short tenure in SK gov, there were no plans to form a sphere or drop anyone, so anything she says to the contrary is nonsense. The real reason she's salty is that she tried to take over SK from Tenages and got shut down, so she ragequit because we wouldn't hand her the reigns on a silver platter. I'm happy to respond to the concerns, complaints, or criticisms of literally anyone else in Mensa, tS, or NPO, except for Sabriel, because she made it clear time and time again that she's in it for herself. Any feigned concern over our cancellation is just that. It's a chance for her to make noise at us, there's no genuine concern or anger there on behalf of tS.

Character Assassination is bad mmkay?

 

Sabriel had a long tenure in SK government, working closely with Tenages and others to ensure SK's security and prosperity. You can still see her influence in your nation builds.

 

Not selecting her as a leader was actually a huge misstep in SK's part, in my opinion, but she left with many disenfranchised SKers (including CodyK and Tenages ffs) for reasons you're obviously being intentionally ignorant about.

 

So save me that shit rhetoric, here.

[Sabriel]

I just want clarify a few things here. Sabriel has no idea what she's talking about or is making things up, because in her short tenure in SK gov, there were no plans to form a sphere or drop anyone, so anything she says to the contrary is nonsense. The real reason she's salty is that she tried to take over SK from Tenages and got shut down, so she ragequit because we wouldn't hand her the reigns on a silver platter. I'm happy to respond to the concerns, complaints, or criticisms of literally anyone else in Mensa, tS, or NPO, except for Sabriel, because she made it clear time and time again that she's in it for herself. Any feigned concern over our cancellation is just that. It's a chance for her to make noise at us, there's no genuine concern or anger there on behalf of tS.

Don't lie bruh. I will drag Tenages out of inactivity to have him !@#$in' confirm that it was a thing discussed before he even stepped down.

 

Just cause I smacked you down for being an incompetent jackass in another game does not justify coming after me in this one.

[Brooklyn666]

Character Assassination is bad mmkay?

 

Sabriel had a long tenure in SK government, working closely with Tenages and others to ensure SK's security and prosperity. You can still see her influence in your nation builds.

 

Not selecting her as a leader was actually a huge misstep in SK's part, in my opinion, but she left with many disenfranchised SKers (including CodyK and Tenages ffs) for reasons you're obviously being intentionally ignorant about.

 

So save me that shit rhetoric, here.

 

I'm just telling it like it is. With all due respect, you left before most of this. She already almost left SK once before when we wouldn't give her autonomy over the Ordo Draconum,  and most of what she did was actually done by others or with others that she took sole credit for.  As for those that left, Tenages retired before any of this happened, and the rest, with the exception of 1 or 2, had planned to leave and form Aperture months in advance, so this canard that many disenfranchised players left is false.

[Eumirbago]

i failed hard

Edited August 21, 2016 by Jacob Moore

[Valdoroth]

Character Assassination is bad mmkay?

 

Sabriel had a long tenure in SK government, working closely with Tenages and others to ensure SK's security and prosperity. You can still see her influence in your nation builds.

 

Not selecting her as a leader was actually a huge misstep in SK's part, in my opinion, but she left with many disenfranchised SKers (including CodyK and Tenages ffs) for reasons you're obviously being intentionally ignorant about.

 

So save me that shit rhetoric, here.

I'm sorry if you didn't realize it, but during war in February, she went into vacation mode. During war. She did not make target lists when running as LC (head of military) in any of our wars. I did that as head of econ. She did not work econ when she was MoC (head of econ). I continued to run that while King until she left. I tried multiple times for her to get along with Brooklyn, but she refused to even try. Do you really think those are qualities of a leader?

 

As one who was running for the position of King against her, I can 100% vouch that she's power-hungry. She told me several times that in irc in pm.\

 

 

With that said, all of this is off-topic.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Valdoroth

[Sisyphus]

I'm just telling it like it is. With all due respect, you left before most of this. She already almost left SK once before when we wouldn't give her autonomy over the Ordo Draconum, and most of what she did was actually done by others or with others that she took sole credit for. As for those that left, Tenages retired before any of this happened, and the rest, with the exception of 1 or 2, had planned to leave and form Aperture months in advance, so this canard that many disenfranchised players left is false.

With all due respect, I left before most of this and have still managed to be better informed on this issue than you are.

 

Stop clearly obfuscating the facts of the matter in an attempt to defend actions any sane government member anywhere would've known would spark this kind of reaction.

[Eumirbago]

Edited August 21, 2016 by Jacob Moore

[Tali]

[Sisyphus]

As one who was running for the position of King against her, I can 100% vouch that she's power-hungry. She told me several times that in irc in pm.

As someone who has led alliances with her and seen her lead I can 100% vouch that she's (self-)admittedly power hungry, but impressively capable of leading an alliance.

 

The latter is a skill I'm not so convinced I see in you, even though you are a fantastic economist and coordinator but we'll see how all that goes.

 

I'm really not trying to make any serious digs here because I really respect what SK has been about but c'mon? Personally attacking someone because she's levying real criticism your way?

 

You can be better than this.

[Valdoroth]

As someone who has led alliances with her and seen her lead I can 100% vouch that she's (self-)admittedly power hungry, but impressively capable of leading an alliance.

 

The latter is a skill I'm not so convinced I see in you, even though you are a fantastic economist and coordinator but we'll see how all that goes.

 

I'm really not trying to make any serious digs here because I really respect what SK has been about but c'mon? Personally attacking someone because she's levying real criticism your way?

 

You can be better than this.

As the saying goes, "You reap what you sow."

 

I mainly want this topic to get back on track though and people to be able to move on from past resolved events.

 

Say what you will though. I'll take my leave and continue eating my popcorn.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Valdoroth

[Brooklyn666]

As someone who has led alliances with her and seen her lead I can 100% vouch that she's (self-)admittedly power hungry, but impressively capable of leading an alliance.

 

The latter is a skill I'm not so convinced I see in you, even though you are a fantastic economist and coordinator but we'll see how all that goes.

 

I'm really not trying to make any serious digs here because I really respect what SK has been about but c'mon? Personally attacking someone because she's levying real criticism your way?

 

You can be better than this.

 

I said before, we're willing to take any legit criticisms or complaints, because we're certainly not perfect, but one thing we won't do is eat it from someone with a known axe to grind, and is using this as an opportunity to advance a personal vendetta.

[Sisyphus]

I said before, we're willing to take any legit criticisms or complaints, because we're certainly not perfect, but one thing we won't do is eat it from someone with a known axe to grind, and is using this as an opportunity to advance a personal vendetta.

That's a hilarious assertion coming from you, who has clearly made all his talking points about a vendetta with Sabriel instead of acknowledging all of the other legitimate criticism that has been laid out so far by others.

[Keegoz]

Can I just say, I am kinda sad that all this talk is taking away from the real thing in this thread. That's the burning of treaties.

 

[Eumirbago]

Can I just say, I am kinda sad that all this talk is taking away from the real thing in this thread. That's the burning of treaties.

 

You only burned a few treaties and are just gonna replace the rest

[Keegoz]

You only burned a few treaties and are just gonna replace the rest

3 treaties down, 1 gained. I call that a net loss for the treaty web

 

I don't see anyone else dropping treaties so I doubt we'll gain anymore.

[Buorhann]

3 treaties down, 1 gained. I call that a net loss for the treaty web

 

I don't see anyone else dropping treaties so I doubt we'll gain anymore.

 

Mensa lost 1, only has 2 left with no protectorates at this moment.  Wuddup Mr. Rose Emperor?

[Ole]

Can I just say, I am kinda sad that all this talk is taking away from the real thing in this thread. That's the burning of treaties.

 

 

We should be better friends, lets talk about that sometime.

[Eumirbago]

3 treaties down, 1 gained. I call that a net loss for the treaty web

 

I don't see anyone else dropping treaties so I doubt we'll gain anymore.

You'll gain more. I give it 1-2 wars.