Deus meets Zeus

[Big Brother]

This really just consolidates the already existing hegemoney that has been forming for awhile.

Oh please Mr. Paracovenant member, tell us all about this new hegemoney that's been forming. Tell us all about how we're forming treaties across blocs to secure our domin- Oh wait, that was you guys, wasn't it? Gosh darn it.

[Yosodog]

Except Pantheon attempted to downgrade their MnDOAP with VE to an ODOAP, because TKR made it a condition. So, as you would expect, VE canceled. Now you are only tied to Rose, through an ODOAP, whilst you have 2 MnDOAP's with the Syndisphere-oo.

 

Like it or not, you are firmly planted within the Syndisphere-oo.

 

This really just consolidates the already existing hegemoney that has been forming for awhile. 

 

Roughly, down to the top 40, you guys are down about 300k score down currently if we include Pantheon in Syndisphere.

 

Before the war on June 1, you guys had 300k score on Syndisphere.  The fact that we were able to obliterate through that 300k shows that it's not really a hegemoney. We were able to pull though, can you guys?

 

Seems like a lot of you guys are still rebuilding so I'd expect to see that gap get smaller.

[Sketchy]

Roughly, down to the top 40, you guys are down about 300k score down currently if we include Pantheon in Syndisphere.

 

Before the war on June 1, you guys had 300k score on Syndisphere.  The fact that we were able to obliterate through that 300k shows that it's not really a hegemoney. We were able to pull though, can you guys?

 

Seems like a lot of you guys are still rebuilding so I'd expect to see that gap get smaller.

 

Score isn't exactly an accurate metric of political power or strength. It might be an ok indicator of the difference between individual alliances, but in regards to bloc's it doesn't really take into account many other factors.

 

You guys weren't the underdogs in this war, Let's be real here. We might have had 300k score on you (a statistic I can't verify for myself so I'll take it on faith for the sake of argument), but that hardly means much.

 

As far as ParaCov is concerned, I have no qualms with admitting serious lack of competence in certain areas. I'm not in the habit of making excuses.

 

But when the response from the other side of the aisle seems to be to suggest that if political change is to happen, ParaCov needs to disband, like we are the larger force at work is hilarious.

 

I don't see things changing unless large alliances from both spheres decide to change the political landscape, and so far I've seen no indication that anyone in the syndisphere-oo is willing to do that.

[Big Brother]

I don't see things changing unless large alliances from both spheres decide to change the political landscape, and so far I've seen no indication that anyone in the syndisphere-oo is willing to do that.

Okay, but Paracovenant became and remained the dominant double-sphere for quite an extensive period time, during which you were told time and time again that merging your spheres would cause the geopolitical aspect of the game to stagnate. You didn't listen and we were inevitably forced to build up our own sphere to counter the monstrosity you people created to begin with. So if you refused to change anything, despite repeated warnings in the past, why should any of us have to drop any of our friends and allies because of your shitty political moves, considering you refused to do the same for so long? As long as Paracovenant exists, a counter-sphere must exist out of necessity. It's kind of like an arms race. It's whatever though, we keep winning and you keep losing so the current state of affairs works for us.

[Sans]

Score isn't exactly an accurate metric of political power or strength. It might be an ok indicator of the difference between individual alliances, but in regards to bloc's it doesn't really take into account many other factors.

 

You guys weren't the underdogs in this war, Let's be real here. We might have had 300k score on you (a statistic I can't verify for myself so I'll take it on faith for the sake of argument), but that hardly means much.

 

As far as ParaCov is concerned, I have no qualms with admitting serious lack of competence in certain areas. I'm not in the habit of making excuses.

 

But when the response from the other side of the aisle seems to be to suggest that if political change is to happen, ParaCov needs to disband, like we are the larger force at work is hilarious.

 

I don't see things changing unless large alliances from both spheres decide to change the political landscape, and so far I've seen no indication that anyone in the syndisphere-oo is willing to do that.

 

You're right score isn't a perfect metric to measure relative strength, but it is a good indication of potential. And if done right ParaCov had the potential to completely wipe us out a long time ago. So that we have managed not to be destroyed despite such disadvantages is not the sign of a hegemoney and repeatedly referring to our grouping as such only reinforces the utter hopelessness of the opposition. The position we find ourselves in as the dominant of the two spheres had been fought over and won in consecutive wars against the rest of the planet. Nothing was handed to us. The fact that we can IS a sign of serious incompetence on the other side and the question about the existing of the ParaCov bloc in the first place if it is so incompetent in defending its members. 

 

Saying ParaCov needs to disband is far from hilarious it is the reality. ParaCov was the resulting sphere in response to tS-OO's mere existence when we were but a drop of sand in the wind. This overwhelming mass of power needed to be formed to take down this upstart grouping and it failed, multiple times. Yet each time the answer the leaders of this grouping came up with was lets make this grouping closer. Now, we are arguably in parity but with multiple wins on the chalkboard. The two spheres are not equal one is proven less and as such it holds no purpose in failing to achieve its objective.

 

tS told the alliances it attack last war it was because a group of alliances was condensing their historical enemies across the isle. The reason has been written, it is out there and known, ParaCov is targeted because it IS a major obstacle for key alliances in our sphere and the political landscape is most likely not going to happen while it remains so. This is not a surprise. This treaty, should not be a surprise. That we do not hold a favorable view of ParaCov as a group, is not a surprise.

[Boony]

Pantheon should start their own sphere.

[Belisarius]

Does this mean that Pantheon will finally fight in a war? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Fistandantilus]

I'm sure if "your side" appeared to be stronger, Pantheon would choose you

Their whale tier are former neutrals and pixel huggers who have never fought or if they have, they went neutral right after and everybody knows this and yet everybory ignores it and think Pantheon is reliable ally. I can assume if they ever get rolled which is unlikely to happen anytime soon cause of their allies(meatshields) half of those nations would leave

 

 

I have been impressed with Pantheon who through insidious schemes have made their realm very powerful, so much so that when I next update my profiles I shall give them their own force and up Don Juan's stats by quite a number (overall points will more than double at minimum and I will change his skill to a better one). They will also be featuring heavily in the next Legend to come very shortly.

 

As for this treaty itself. Congratulations to Pantheon, condolences to the Knights Radiant.

 

 

 

 

Does this mean that Pantheon will finally fight in a war? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

 

 

This really just consolidates the already existing hegemoney that has been forming for awhile. 

 

 

Both sides have been contributing to the 2 side dynamic(Paracov through treaties, TS-OO by winning). To play the victim is either a show of huge ignorance, or very poor FA.

[Tali]

Both sides have been contributing to the 2 side dynamic(Paracov through treaties, TS-OO by winning). To play the victim is either a show of huge ignorance, or very poor FA.

>Inb4 Fist DoWs Sketchy for being edgy

 

[Kastor]

I've always stated that treaties were bad for the game and this makes it worse.

 

If you look at the top 15 alliances, 7 are syndisphere or equivalent. 4 are ParaCovenant, and the other 4 are Paperless or neutral. Let's be completely honest, to say this isn't a hegemoney isn't true. This is exactly what you're doing. Syndisphere has the most treaties, the most nations, and the most cities.

 

You also have a group of level headed leaders, which is a first. You're not likely to turn on each other. People will be too scared to do anything to you.

 

Congratulations to Pantheon, condolences to The Knights Radiant.

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

Except Pantheon attempted to downgrade their MnDOAP with VE to an ODOAP, because TKR made it a condition. So, as you would expect, VE canceled. Now you are only tied to Rose, through an ODOAP, whilst you have 2 MnDOAP's with the Syndisphere-oo.

 

Like it or not, you are firmly planted within the Syndisphere-oo.

 

This really just consolidates the already existing hegemoney that has been forming for awhile. 

 

 

VE cancelled?? Well, the treaty's certainly not on VE's alliance page anymore, but it's still on Pantheon's and I haven't seen a "Viridia Leaves the Shores of Pantheon" topic yet, so I guess it's still unfolding behind the scenes and we should expect to see more on that soon.

 

That's a shame, I was looking forward to seeing where that relationship went and what it developed into, mainly because I didn't know much about VE as an alliance (beyond what I read in Alliance Affairs) back when it was first signed.   Been interesting speaking to some of their members in their Embassy on our forums, too -- gives me another perspective on Orbis politics. Hopefully, they won't stop dropping by just 'cos our Relationship Status has changed. 

[Odin]

I'm sure if "your side" appeared to be stronger, Pantheon would choose you

Their whale tier are former neutrals and pixel huggers who have never fought or if they have, they went neutral right after and everybody knows this and yet everybory ignores it and think Pantheon is reliable ally. I can assume if they ever get rolled which is unlikely to happen anytime soon cause of their allies(meatshields) half of those nations would leave

Indeed.

 

-Balls

-Infra

Choose one.

 

 

Rose/UPN bloc dares not to attack in the future.

BK/tS Bloc might attack in the future.

Only whales will profit, since one side has none (except when Alpha grows to former size).

 

Not a good treaty for the game, even if it's only 1 of many.

[Boony]

I've always stated that treaties were bad for the game and this makes it worse.

 

If you look at the top 15 alliances, 7 are syndisphere or equivalent. 4 are ParaCovenant, and the other 4 are Paperless or neutral. Let's be completely honest, to say this isn't a hegemoney isn't true. This is exactly what you're doing. Syndisphere has the most treaties, the most nations, and the most cities.

 

You also have a group of level headed leaders, which is a first. You're not likely to turn on each other. People will be too scared to do anything to you.

 

Congratulations to Pantheon, condolences to The Knights Radiant.

If you consider last war and only count alliances that are 100% on our side, it's about 4 alliances in the top 15 (excluding Pantheon).

 

Edit:5... so 6

 

Yikes

Edited August 1, 2016 by Boony

[Ole]

If you consider last war and only count alliances that are 100% on our side, it's about 4 alliances in the top 15 (excluding Pantheon).

 

Edit:5... so 6

 

Yikes

Id like you to list them, so we can identify the unwanted child in the OO/tS hegemoney.

[Prefonteen]

Score isn't exactly an accurate metric of political power or strength. It might be an ok indicator of the difference between individual alliances, but in regards to bloc's it doesn't really take into account many other factors.

 

You guys weren't the underdogs in this war, Let's be real here. We might have had 300k score on you (a statistic I can't verify for myself so I'll take it on faith for the sake of argument), but that hardly means much.

 

As far as ParaCov is concerned, I have no qualms with admitting serious lack of competence in certain areas. I'm not in the habit of making excuses.

 

But when the response from the other side of the aisle seems to be to suggest that if political change is to happen, ParaCov needs to disband, like we are the larger force at work is hilarious.

 

I don't see things changing unless large alliances from both spheres decide to change the political landscape, and so far I've seen no indication that anyone in the syndisphere-oo is willing to do that.

 

We tried to change the dynamic. Multiple times. I know since I ran into a wall on two seperate occasions with major players in both Paragon and Covenant (1 each). I also discussed options discretely with certain figures in your own alliance.

 

In the meanwhile, treaties kept being signed on your end. Treaties that only solidified the current dynamic. Plans which had been in an advanced stage were crushed under the boot of a resurgent anti-t$ faction in one of the cases as well.

 

Here's what I find... curious:

 

There are 3 factions.

1. The numerically smallest faction (untested initially) and another, numerically larger faction (also untested initially) go to war. The larger faction makes a move which prompts one ally to join the smaller faction. The smaller tactically defeats its opponent while the third faction sits out and gains a *major* numerical advantage.

 

2. The third faction, now with a major political, numerical and military advantage (plus first strike advantage) signs a treaty with the faction which lost the previous encounter, attacks the numerically smallest faction right after it rebuilds. In the process it breaks its word to some of its allies, who now find themselves cemented on the side of the smallest faction. Half of the third faction enters the war in a limited capacity. The larger faction is soundly defeated by the numerically smaller faction. The half of the third faction which stayed out profits from the war and becomes the most potent upper tier in the game.

 

3. What was numerically smallest faction has, due to two victories against larger factions and due to consolidation as a direct result of the other factions driving allies away, made up the gap with the other two individual factions. The two other factions link up further, resulting again in numerical superiority.

 

4. After rebuilding, The half faction which sat out the previous war goes to war with the smaller faction. Its other half supports the war and enters. Half of the third faction enters as well. Again, strictly numerically speaking, the combined faction is larger. The smaller faction wins primarily due to superior coordination and tactical mistakes on part of its opponents.

 

5. The defeated factions consolidate further and can now realistically be seen as one larger entity. We'll call it 'superfaction'. 'Superfaction' has a smaller but rising sphere integrate slowly into it (NPOAlpha). The smaller faction attacks 'Superfaction'. While numerically superior, Superfaction allocates armies to the wrong fronts on a macro level and underperforms on a micro level. 'Superfaction' is defeated.

 

6. A few major parties in 'Superfaction' suffer from internal erosion and dissent. Organic growth and military victories have led various parties in the smaller faction to outgrow their opponents, leading them to the top in the leaderboards. As a result, the smaller faction now has a numerical advantage over the 'Superfaction'. The relative advantage remains smaller than the advantages previously enjoyed by its various opponents in other wars.

 

7. Individual members and alliances as a whole within 'Superfaction' now lament the political situation and accuse the other faction of being a hegemoney, of treaty whoring and of making the game boring.

 

 

Honestly guys? All reasons for war aside. All CB's and PR aside. All motivations aside: You have continuously enjoyed superior numbers. You have continuously been outsmarted and outperformed. You have consistently made tactical and strategical errors. You are equally guilty of initiating warfare as your opponents have been (if not more). You find yourself in a weaker position because you failed to capitalize on your advantages. Don't blame your opponents for not lowering themselves to your level so you can win. Blame yourselves and your leadership for being unable to keep up.

 

More importantly though. Stop pointing fingers, recognize your mistakes, and do something about it. Innovate. Improve. Do something. Anything. If you want to change the political situation of the game, then get active. It's what we did.

 

Y'all are starting to sound like scrubs who play all their video games on easy mode and reload the game whenever something goes wrong.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Partisan

[Buorhann]

Basically what Partisan said.

 

The formation of the OO/t$ sphere developed in reaction to ParaCovenant securing their lines.  Now with the recent wars, the two spheres have gotten bigger (or stronger, however you perceive).  ParaCovenant has always been the largest sphere, both by numbers and by nation score averages.

 

The only problem that side lacks is proper leadership.

 

OO/t$ spheres have mostly won all the wars so far due to how the leadership works together in each respective alliance.  It's quite amazing, actually.

[Prefontaine]

Interesting story. Before TC fell apart with that blunder of an offensive war they launched and the game was looking at TC as being an unbeatable force with their new tie to VE's side of the web I approached Saru (I think it was Saru anyway, was definitely UPN) about the idea of bloc busting a bit, spreading the web powers around a bit instead of consolidating. I got a response along the lines of "we just got into power why would we give it up", and "they can always gather more support to stand against us". Granted it's not UPN really making these claims now about the Syndicate Sphere, but it's that side of the web (and me, but that's moot) looking for people to break up power and Syndicate Sphere not wanting to do so. So now we will repeat this process. The other side will try to gain enough strength to overthrow Syndicate, then won't want to break up their power once at the top. Or they'll fail. 

 

Basically the beaten side will complain about the consolidation of power against them and how it's bad for the game. The current victor will refuse to split power because of various reasons, and then the process repeats with different sides, though I don't know if Rose/VE/TC will be able to beat Syndicate Sphere or will merely have to wait for members to start infighting and a splinter to happen.

 

--Anyway the point is you're all !@#$es. 

 

PS, I think this treaty is garbage and have virtually no respect for Pantheon. Anyone tied to them is dumb. They're GPA with treaties.

[Beatrix]

 

 

PS, I think this treaty is garbage and have virtually no respect for Pantheon. Anyone tied to them is dumb. They're GPA with treaties.

 

Aren't they basically what you said GPA should be in order to survive?

 

 

The problem is GPA lacks true leadership. To be neutral and safe you need some savvy, active, charismatic leadership. If you guys were run by liked members of the community, or at least respected political figures you would be a much more secure alliance. 

 

For GPA to not have suffering the ass whopping it has been handed twice, you need leadership who have a presence in the game community, whom talk to leaders and carry an amount of respect with them. GPAs failure is the failure of its leadership. Your apathy is your downfall. Other alliances who have lazy, unimpressive leadership get to hide behind their treaties, let the players that mold the games politics steer their ship.

 

If GPA wants to succeed it needs leaders whom mold the politics of the game into a manner which is not condusive to the yearly rolling of your alliance.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Beatrix

[tenk]

Aren't they basically what you said GPA should be in order to survive?

 

 

 

I assume the reconciliation between the statements is "Yes Pantheon have been successful at the neutral game along the lines quoted below but that doesn't mean the pixel hugging path is one he endorses."

[Prefontaine]

Aren't they basically what you said GPA should be in order to survive?

 

Survival =/= my respect

[Fistandantilus]

 

PS, I think this treaty is garbage and have virtually no respect for Pantheon. Anyone tied to them is dumb. They're GPA with treaties.

 

 

We can see you are trying to provoke something XD

Edited August 2, 2016 by Fistandantilus

[Licorice]

Roll Pantheon

[DragonK]

 

 

 

blah blah blah, boring stuff

 

Signed for Pantheon

 

Olympian of Defense: Tywin Lannister

 

 

 

I can't belive noone bothered with important stuff here:

Hahahaha Tywin Lannister signed a treaty. Haahahahaha

Now I have something to stab you with every time we meet Tywin.

 

 

I'm sure if "your side" appeared to be stronger, Pantheon would choose you

Their whale tier are former neutrals and pixel huggers who have never fought or if they have, they went neutral right after and everybody knows this and yet everybory ignores it and think Pantheon is reliable ally. I can assume if they ever get rolled which is unlikely to happen anytime soon cause of their allies(meatshields) half of those nations would leave

 

There are few ex-arrgh there like Tywin and Warpool. Also people from other alliances also "retired" there. There are lions in sheep'y clothing among those sheeps. And Tywin is organizing their military. Altough he might be getting a bit old with signing a treaty and all

[Boony]

Id like you to list them, so we can identify the unwanted child in the OO/tS hegemoney.

No child left behind

[Prefonteen]

No child left behind

 

Think of the children