Evenstar embargo on Dutch ships passing through the Strait of Gibraltar

[Thalmor]

 

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/13900-east-indies-cleared-of-mines/

 

''We are sadden to say tat 1,242 Cargo ships have been sunk in Dutch lands, and 4 Military Vessels, 1 Destroyed, 2 Minesweepers, and 1 Battleship were sunk. The HMLS Striker is missing, but is presumed to be sunk.''

 

___

 

This is utterly repugnant. To show so little disregard as to allow entire navies worth of merchant ships to be sunk shows a high level of disregard for the safety of the men and women of the Dutch Merchant Navy.

The correct thing that should've been done would have been to halt all trade through the East Indies. At the very least, the cargo ships inside the East Indies should've stayed in a safe, secure port.

The Dutch choose profits over the lives of their personnel, and that's unacceptable.

 

In response to the Dutch's disregard, greed, and carelessness, the Strait of Gibraltar is hereby off limits to Dutch ships.

Any Dutch vessel that passes through will be disabled through the use of artillery fire. It will then by boarded, it's cargo will be shipped by Evenstar merchant vessels, and it's crew or passengers deported accordingly.

Should any Dutch military vessel interfere with our operation, appropriate counter-measures will be taken.

 

Every Dutch ship will be hailed as it gets closer to the Strait of Gibraltar so that it may change course.

This protocol will be enacted on April 10th, 2006. This is to give time for Dutch vessels to re-route their course or for returning ships to exit the Mediterranean.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

[Ikhan]

Well, at least they still have the Suez Canal.

[Wolfie]

First and foremost, A dutch blockade was set and enforced. If Evenstar had little regard in reading notices sent by the Dutch Government. 

 

And if you had also read, I have stated that the blockade was in effect, but many ships were already in our zone, by the time Australian warnings were set, nearly 3,000 ships were in our waters. Many ships disregarded our stand put calls and went to assist sinking vessels, lives were sadly lost. What Evenstar should be doing is offering assistance to Chernigov, Australia and Caledonia to find those who placed the mines in the first place, instead of accusing us of caring for profits of which we do not make as the East Indonesian Sea is a free and no tariff zone. 

 

 We can not alter your descion but the Dutch government cares for every life, and every life has a value. If there are any Evenstar cargo ships they are still welcomed to pass through our waters should they choose. 

 

 Best regards,

Empress Wolf 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Empress Wolf

[Thalmor]

First and foremost, A dutch blockade was set and enforced. If Evenstar had little regard in reading notices sent by the Dutch Government. 

 

And if you had also read, I have stated that the blockade was in effect, but many ships were already in our zone, by the time Australian warnings were set, nearly 3,000 ships were in our waters. Many ships disregarded our stand put calls and went to assist sinking vessels, lives were sadly lost. What Evenstar should be doing is offering assistance to Chernigov, Australia and Caledonia to find those who placed the mines in the first place, instead of accusing us of caring for profits of which we do not make as the East Indonesian Sea is a free and no tariff zone. 

 

 We can not alter your descion but the Dutch government cares for every life, and every life has a value. If there are any Evenstar cargo ships they are still welcomed to pass through our waters should they choose. 

 

 Best regards,

Empress Wolf 

 

 

The truth is that this great calamity happened in Dutch waters. You are the one responsible. Assuming that the Dutch did do everything they could to save as many ships as possible, the fact that any entity was able to place thousands and thousands of naval mines and not be caught is a complete and utter failure on part of the Dutch officials to protect their waters. For the naval lanes there to have 3,000 ships in them at any given time, then it is up to the Dutch to secure those lanes - which they obviously did not - because of how important they are.

 

To also quote that thread I linked in the OP:

 

''...we only expected nearly 300-400 ships to be sunk.''

 

Only 300-400 ships? You almost make it sound like it's a trivial problem! That is, by Dutch calculations, a minimum of billions in damages and thousands of lives. However, what really happened, is that it turned out to be Three to four times WORSE than that!

 

Fine, you did impose a blockade. I will concede that. However, this is still a Dutch problem that the Dutch are responsible for because the Dutch were irresponsible with patrolling their own waters!

[Wolfie]

The truth is that this great calamity happened in Dutch waters. You are the one responsible. Assuming that the Dutch did do everything they could to save as many ships as possible, the fact that any entity was able to place thousands and thousands of naval mines and not be caught is a complete and utter failure on part of the Dutch officials to protect their waters. For the naval lanes there to have 3,000 ships in them at any given time, then it is up to the Dutch to secure those lanes - which they obviously did not - because of how important they are.

 

To also quote that thread I linked in the OP:

 

''...we only expected nearly 300-400 ships to be sunk.''

 

Only 300-400 ships? You almost make it sound like it's a trivial problem! That is, by Dutch calculations, a minimum of billions in damages and thousands of lives. However, what really happened, is that it turned out to be Three to four times WORSE than that!

 

Fine, you did impose a blockade. I will concede that. However, this is still a Dutch problem that the Dutch are responsible for because the Dutch were irresponsible with patrolling their own waters!

We have done all we could, losing our valuable soldiers, airmen, and sailors in the process. We lost a battleship, two minesweepers, and a destroyer, not to mention a lost sub, and 13 various aircrafts missing or destroyed. to help those sinking ships. Ships can be lost and replaced, lives can not. We have saved more lives, we have used up valuable resources to help them, and we are still helping those injured. We even called upon local fishermen who voluntarily joined the KeizerMarine or simply took their boats to sinking ships. We as stated by the Australians have been dealing with massive storms and tsunamis and we only realized to late that the mines were implaced as all Naval ships and aircrafts were not able to operate. 

 

Yes the loss of ships is serve, and actions will be taken to make sure it never happens again. 23 ships to save thousands were not enough, as well as ensuring we did not lose our own ships which would leave many stranded and rendered all rescues impossible. 

[Prezyan]

Well, at least they still have the Suez Canal.

It would certainly be unfortunate if Narvan were to close the Mandeb straight... 

 

As for an official IC statement from Narvan, the Narvanese Admiralty claims this to be the worst naval disaster in recorded history. The level of incompetence presented by the Dutch has caused members of the Federal Navy to petition the Senate to present some form of reprimand, as they feel that all navies have been disgraced by this event.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Prezyan

[Cenna]

As a nation in the conflict of the mine issue I fully support the Dutch in this matter as I personally sent my own vessel out to help the ships I know for a fact their was no easy entry in the area and anyone that was there went on there own will to save those ships. A big bulk of the ships were lost during storms when we were unable to send anything out into the waters the fact that this bothers you in the first place rubs me the wrong way honestly I'd like to know what horse you have in this race to threaten someone's right of clear passage over something they can't help other than what was already done. As the Dutch have already said on their behalf I care for the ships in my waters, ships from any nation in great need have the full Caledonian oceanic borders to use whether they need oil or to find their way if they're lost or anything else within reason. I can't say that I've seen any other nation do this. So if you could please explain to me what your real reason for this restriction is that'd be great because the previous excuse is sorely lacking good reason

[Thalmor]

As a nation in the conflict of the mine issue I fully support the Dutch in this matter as I personally sent my own vessel out to help the ships I know for a fact their was no easy entry in the area and anyone that was there went on there own will to save those ships. A big bulk of the ships were lost during storms when we were unable to send anything out into the waters the fact that this bothers you in the first place rubs me the wrong way honestly I'd like to know what horse you have in this race to threaten someone's right of clear passage over something they can't help other than what was already done. As the Dutch have already said on their behalf I care for the ships in my waters, ships from any nation in great need have the full Caledonian oceanic borders to use whether they need oil or to find their way if they're lost or anything else within reason. I can't say that I've seen any other nation do this. So if you could please explain to me what your real reason for this restriction is that'd be great because the previous excuse is sorely lacking good reason

 

As my second post in this thread explains, the Dutch knew how vital this shipping lane is. In order for an entity to place thousands of naval mines undetected the security in place for that vital shipping lane was absolutely horrible. The Dutch were severely irresponsible and that's completely unacceptable because such negligence harms the global economy. 

 

Negligent Homicide is still a punishable tort- and that's what the Dutch are guilty of.

[Cenna]

As it was said earlier we aren't even sure if it was on purpose or not. And the way the Dutch handle their waters is up to them. We split the area amongst The Dutch, Caledonia, Australia and Chernigov, so they also cleared out areas that were out of their control, last I checked I don't have ships that maintain waters out of my ownership. You can be upset all you want but cutting off their trade routes won't solve anything and will more likely cause tell tensions leading to war and then more loss. I move to resolve this, because no matter what you try to throw in the face of the Dutch it was unavoidable and frankly your acting immature and disrespecting the fact that they cared enough to clear the waters at all. I didn't see your ships out there risking their lives to solve it, No you'd rather sit back and pick at the good another nation did.

[Nadir Aminu]

It would certainly be unfortunate if Narvan were to close the Mandeb straight...

 

As for an official IC statement from Narvan, the Narvanese Admiralty claims this to be the worst naval disaster in recorded history. The level of incompetence presented by the Dutch has caused members of the Federal Navy to petition the Senate to present some form of reprimand, as they feel that all navies have been disgraced by this event.

We technically only granted access to Ryas, Chernigov, and Narvan. Edited July 18, 2016 by Mahmoud Al-emin

[Ikhan]

We technically only granted access to Ryas, Chernigov, and Narvan.

Hmm... Indeed you did.

(OOC: Welcome back!)

[Prince Hunter of Bavaria]

As a member in the conflict as well, I fully support the dutch on the basis, They took on the task of dealing with ships coming straight out of our waters, Chernigov waters and Caledonian waters. And as stated in my post, we are still searching if there was any placement of the mines or if the mines just spilled out into the ocean due to the storms. Last I remember it was only The Dutch clearing their waters with support from limited nations I don't Evenstar see sending ships to help any nation in that region. I am pretty sure if the ships were divided upon their location and their entry points, we would see less ships destroyed in the Dutch waters, Dutch ships did not mind clearing Australian zones from mines, and have been doing their best as well as losing their lives and ships. 

[AiOS]

The Government of Electronica must agree with the Government of Thalmor that the waterways in question, while falling within the territory of the Dutch East Indies, are in fact vital global waterways under the technical protection of their host nation, specifically the Dutch Empire.

 

Electronica must question the sovereignty of any nation over territory or waters in which they cannot, or will not, display jurisidiction through diligent defense and enforcement of law and order therein.

 

In so far as part of these same waters are of utter importance to the conduct of Electronica's own interests in the realms of trade and security, we do propose and strongly advise that the Dutch Government —

 

1: consider the establishment and declaration of select routes to and through the waters of the Dutch East Indies that may be used by all international vessels for the purposes of peaceful trade and through-transit, and to devote the necessary security and defense to these select routes.

 

2: consider joint naval and air patrols with its immediate neighbors in southeast Asia over these same select routes to insure the proper the defense of them, and more importantly to demonstrate the Dutch desire to maintain sovereignty over them.

 

Our government is extremely concerned by the lack of the necessary defenses to protect such an important point of global consequence. We take this moment to announce that we shall not permit such gross negligence to continue in waters so vital to Electronica's own interests.

 

We request the Dutch Government take this opportunity to work closely with our nation and others to insure the good flow of maritime traffic in the waters connecting the Indian Ocean and South China Sea.

 

We request Hans II address this proposal during his visit to Bangkok.

[Thalmor]

I don't Evenstar see sending ships to help any nation in that region.

 I didn't see your ships out there risking their lives to solve it,

 

Because The Evenstar is on the other side of the whole damn planet.

[Church]

The Senate of Rome has voted to also embargo the Dutch, as I have stated before it is a miracle that the Dutch are still business due to that many ships being lost would be worth approximately $91,908,000,000. We are disgraced by this, as Narvan stated. It is an Embarrassment to the world. We are ceasing all trade with the Dutch, any and all imports that do make its way through from a chaining effect, will lead to Tariffs being placed on all Dutch goods.

[Cenna]

Because The Evenstar is on the other side of the whole damn planet.

Then stay on that side while we deal with it the way we can. If your too bothered to come help don't complain when we have volunteers out doing the work risking their lives all in the name of you badmouthing them.

[Cenna]

The Senate of Rome has voted to also embargo the Dutch, as I have stated before it is a miracle that the Dutch are still business due to that many ships being lost would be worth approximately $91,908,000,000. We are disgraced by this, as Narvan stated. It is an Embarrassment to the world. We are ceasing all trade with the Dutch, any and all imports that do make its way through from a chaining effect, will lead to Tariffs being placed on all Dutch goods.

I am considering this as an embargo on me as well and therefore will no longer trade with the Senate of Rome.

[Cenna]

I'd also point out that those monetary numbers are extremely exaggerated to say the least. If it were that high how on orbis could anyone even have a quarter of that.

[Church]

I am considering this as an embargo on me as well and therefore will no longer trade with the Senate of Rome.

 

 

Consider it as an embargo on you as well then. We respect your decisions but if you can not respect ours then we will be open about no longer having relations with Caledonia. This is a breach of our Sovereignty, the Senate has the right to make its decisions. 

 

 

I'd also point out that those monetary numbers are extremely exaggerated to say the least. If it were that high how on orbis could anyone even have a quarter of that.

 

Also they really weren't, a normal Cargo ship has an average worth of $74-$105 Million. If 1,242 Cargo ships were sank, well then you do the math.

[Cenna]

It's also notable that while some were going out full of cargo others were empty coming in or sent out to help the sinking ships. *side note* cargo ships also vary greatly in size* do the math

[Church]

Actually I can't do the math there, because there are no numbers. Also no ships ever really come back empty, more then likely they leave with a ship full of cargo and come back with another load of cargo. Also side note for the math you said I should do, so here you go. In March 2010, the average price for a geared 500-ton container ship was $10 million, while gearless ships of 6,500 and 12,000 TEU averaged prices of $74 million and $105 million respectively.

[Tiggera]

State Department: "Thundera urges all nations to back down and to observe restraints to help ease growing tensions. We also hope to see a relaxation of harsh words and statement"

[Marcus Dewinter]

The Peoples Republic of Communist Japan must sit this one out, we have allies on both side of this conflict and we feel to interfere on a matter that does not directly involve us would only serve to cause problems. Therefore we will not take a side on this issue and hope that peace prevails over the growing tensions.

[Prezyan]

Everyone that thinks 1,000+ ships is no big deal, please, I have extra bleach.

I know I'm going to go drink gallons of bleach after reading the counterargument in this thread. 

 

Oh and by the way, give this a good read: http://www.usmm.org/casualty.html

[Church]

Everyone that thinks 1,000+ ships is no big deal, please, I have extra bleach.

 

I know I'm going to go drink gallons of bleach after reading the counterargument in this thread.

 

Oh and by the way, give this a good read: http://www.usmm.org/casualty.html

Well put and damn that is a lot of death