Mission Accomplished!

[Kastor]

If you are afraid of war then give into the desires of anyone who is attacking you then no, we don't care that you are gone.

So you're still salty that you're losing a meatshield?

[Caillou]

So you're still salty that you're losing a meatshield?

 

Please tell me how Rose has shown to use it's allies as meatshields? We were the first to enter in the 168 day war and took the full wrath of Mensynd to the face while our allies countered, this last war I explicitly told TLF we would not activate them into the war after Rose gov sat down to assess the war and political dynamic that we were currently in. The only time I messaged Phoenix anything that you could use to say we wanted them as meatshields was on the second day of war, when Rose was still in a mostly okay position, and I said we were trying to raise support for the war - they completely disregarded this message and ignored me. They returned a message AFTER you attacked them saying they needed help, so I'm not salty over losing an alliance that ignored me while my alliance was at war then instantly requested assistance the second they were in trouble. I value loyalty over any of the bullshit that was conveyed to Rose by them within the last month. 

 

Were you aware they had requested to merge into an alliance on the opposing sphere from you not long ago? There is a lot of stuff they aren't telling you, you can continue to try put yourself on this moral highground Kastor but all of us know you are still standing on a pile of shit. 

 

Also, in regards to the TLF thing I'm sure Zelda can vouch for me when I say I told them Rose wasn't going to activate them into the war. 

[Sketchy]

So you're still salty that you're losing a meatshield?

I think in order for someone to even be a meatshield they have to be honorable enough to join the war in the first place.

 

I wish the best of luck to you in your new friendship with Phoenix. Unfortunately, you'll likely need it, since they've already set a precedent of not helping allies during war.

 

Speaking of which, what exactly made you consider Phoenix a good choice as your vassal? Surely Roz Wei could do better than that. 

[Baronus]

I think in order for someone to even be a meatshield they have to be honorable enough to join the war in the first place.

 

I wish the best of luck to you in your new friendship with Phoenix. Unfortunately, you'll likely need it, since they've already set a precedent of not helping allies during war.

 

Speaking of which, what exactly made you consider Phoenix a good choice as your vassal? Surely Roz Wei could do better than that.

Even though we had our revenge and it was fun to do after 4 months with no action, Roz Wei had no intentions on letting phoenix in the treaty web, because they weren't profiting of the treaties they had. It is clear that Rose wasn't going to really care about them, and that they would be better of without treaties. So there is that. But we couldn't let them go out in the wild with 20K damage so we made them our Guarantee for 60 Days. What they will do after the 60 days is unclear: Maybe they stay with us in the paperless endevour and fix their internal problems, maybe they go out again and search treaties. I don't know what they will do, but they now have the chance to start with a clear page again.

[Luke the 13th]

Were you aware they had requested to merge into an alliance on the opposing sphere from you not long ago? There is a lot of stuff they aren't telling you, you can continue to try put yourself on this moral highground Kastor but all of us know you are still standing on a pile of shit. 

As far as I can remember, this is news to me.

 

I wish the best of luck to you in your new friendship with Phoenix. Unfortunately, you'll likely need it, since they've already set a precedent of not helping allies during war.

The entire reason Phoenix got hit now is because we helped Rose in the last war.

[Caillou]

As far as I can remember, this is news to me.

 

The entire reason Phoenix got hit now is because we helped Rose in the last war.

 

It's not really my place to say as I don't want to betray the OPSEC of the people that told me. But I was told directly by a reliable source of this. 

 

And you are going to align with people that hit you because of your past actions despite you wishing to stay out? Sounds like a great call man, keep it up. Nice job avoiding my claims of Phoenix ignoring me until they asked for help too. 

[Luke the 13th]

It would seem that I've left a few holes in my semantics:

 

1: I guess I don't really know how recent we're talking. Phoenix has attempted to merge with a number of alliances, but I was not made aware of any attempts in the past couple of months(that I can remember).

 

2: I can not actually speak for Phoenix anymore, seeing as I am no longer a part of the alliance. I've merely tried to provide some clarity on our past actions.

 

3: A very smart ass way of looking at it is yes, that makes a lot of sense.

 

4: I thought that was standard operating procedure (jk). The reason I didn't answer is because I was neither FA, nor did I get messaged.

 

I'm not going to act like Phoenix has been some god tier ally, but from a personal standpoint, it certain seems like Roz Wei is interested in helping Phoenix, and I'm willing to see what comes of it.

 

Edit: To explain the seemingly confused narrative as to whether I'm Phoenix gov or not, I left Phoenix right after peace was agreed.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Luke the 13th

[Young]

I think Roz Wei have shown a bit of class personally, I quite like Roz he knows what Phoenix means to me, by guaranteeing them protection for 60 days after a war is great, it gives Phoenix 60 days to repair and decide what thy are going to do with themselves, better than them getting in another war I'm sure everyone will agree, and it's probably the best terms they could have gotten, yes they are dropping all treaties, but that's three treaty's, two of which are ODP's

 

Personally I wish both Roz Wei and Phoenix all the luck in the world

[Kastor]

Please tell me how Rose has shown to use it's allies as meatshields? We were the first to enter in the 168 day war and took the full wrath of Mensynd to the face while our allies countered, this last war I explicitly told TLF we would not activate them into the war after Rose gov sat down to assess the war and political dynamic that we were currently in. The only time I messaged Phoenix anything that you could use to say we wanted them as meatshields was on the second day of war, when Rose was still in a mostly okay position, and I said we were trying to raise support for the war - they completely disregarded this message and ignored me. They returned a message AFTER you attacked them saying they needed help, so I'm not salty over losing an alliance that ignored me while my alliance was at war then instantly requested assistance the second they were in trouble. I value loyalty over any of the bullshit that was conveyed to Rose by them within the last month. 

 

Were you aware they had requested to merge into an alliance on the opposing sphere from you not long ago? There is a lot of stuff they aren't telling you, you can continue to try put yourself on this moral highground Kastor but all of us know you are still standing on a pile of shit. 

 

Also, in regards to the TLF thing I'm sure Zelda can vouch for me when I say I told them Rose wasn't going to activate them into the war.

 

 

lolwut? In the 168 day war you were offered a 1v1 with Mensa and turned it down. Right after you declared an OFFENSIVE war, you were then offered a VERY favorable peace offer from Syndisphere, which you twiddled on your thumbs until UPN came in then tried to say it was out of your hands. You used your allies as meatshields then, whether you meant to or not that's how it turned out. As for merging, I ask and receive about 3-4 merge offers from various alliances monthly. When I was in DHE, Pax tried to merge with literally every alliance. Thats not a big deal. I'm sure even you as Emperor of Rose has received merge offers. So if they did or didn't is irrelevant. I throw out ideas and offers all the time.

 

It was your job to teach them, how to fight, warchest, use diplomacy. You neglected them, like you neglect most of your protectorates. That's why tS's protectorates do well, thats why NAC and Polaris are doing well. VE and UPN taught them how to handle things while you twiddled your thumbs and let Phoenix develop bad habits. Now WE have to do your job because you can't do it.

 

I may not be on a high horse but neither are you.

[Young]

lolwut? In the 168 day war you were offered a 1v1 with Mensa and turned it down. Right after you declared an OFFENSIVE war, you were then offered a VERY favorable peace offer from Syndisphere, which you twiddled on your thumbs until UPN came in then tried to say it was out of your hands. You used your allies as meatshields then, whether you meant to or not that's how it turned out. As for merging, I ask and receive about 3-4 merge offers from various alliances monthly. When I was in DHE, Pax tried to merge with literally every alliance. Thats not a big deal. I'm sure even you as Emperor of Rose has received merge offers. So if they did or didn't is irrelevant. I throw out ideas and offers all the time.

 

It was your job to teach them, how to fight, warchest, use diplomacy. You neglected them, like you neglect most of your protectorates. That's why tS's protectorates do well, thats why NAC and Polaris are doing well. VE and UPN taught them how to handle things while you twiddled your thumbs and let Phoenix develop bad habits. Now WE have to do your job because you can't do it.

 

I may not be on a high horse but neither are you.

Rose did actually try to help us with that kind of stuff when I was there, they even gave us money and rescources a lot of our members neglected this, rose did try

[Caillou]

Rose did actually try to help us with that kind of stuff when I was there, they even gave us money and rescources a lot of our members neglected this, rose did try

 

We sent steel, money, and several other resources to many alliances during this time. However if the opposition recognizes that they can't continue their "Rose is evil narrative". Also, please teach them how to fight Roz Wei - the war you just fought against an alliance that you are now aiming to teach was a great show. Next war let's see you guys put on your big boy pants and hit a more polarizing alliance. 

 

Another thing you are forgetting Kastor is how tier systems work, a 1v1 war with Mensa was not favorable and I had told that to several people at the time. Hell I might have even said to Mensa "it would be a terrible idea for Rose to try and hit mensa due to the tiering issues." And as far as I know Rose has never neglected our protectorates, TLF was our protectorate for a very long time and we have always tried to make sure they are doing okay. Young just confirmed we had been sending them stuff during the last war despite being at war with nearly every alliance in the opposing sphere. Keep trying buddy, convince me your intentions are good-willed. So far all you've done is repeated "rose is bad, roz wei will help them instead" which now has completely fallen through with the direct source pointing out that Rose put in an honest effort. 

[Rozalia]

Sorry to be damper on this but I'm pretty sure failings occurred on both sides. Perhaps Rose didn't do as well as they could have on the matter, but that isn't to say Phoenix was perfect on the matter. Both alliances will move forward better I'm sure. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Rozalia

[Kastor]

We sent steel, money, and several other resources to many alliances during this time. However if the opposition recognizes that they can't continue their "Rose is evil narrative". Also, please teach them how to fight Roz Wei - the war you just fought against an alliance that you are now aiming to teach was a great show. Next war let's see you guys put on your big boy pants and hit a more polarizing alliance. 

 

Another thing you are forgetting Kastor is how tier systems work, a 1v1 war with Mensa was not favorable and I had told that to several people at the time. Hell I might have even said to Mensa "it would be a terrible idea for Rose to try and hit mensa due to the tiering issues." And as far as I know Rose has never neglected our protectorates, TLF was our protectorate for a very long time and we have always tried to make sure they are doing okay. Young just confirmed we had been sending them stuff during the last war despite being at war with nearly every alliance in the opposing sphere. Keep trying buddy, convince me your intentions are good-willed. So far all you've done is repeated "rose is bad, roz wei will help them instead" which now has completely fallen through with the direct source pointing out that Rose put in an honest effort.

 

You're not evil, you're incompetent, and I don't have to prove anything to you. Get off your high horse thinking that you're better than anyone. And nothing has fallen through. Rose is a bad alliance. A "collection of people who use IRC and also have an in game nation." Rose has done way better under Keegoz. You made the right choice stepping down.

[Filthy Fifths]

We sent steel, money, and several other resources to many alliances during this time. However if the opposition recognizes that they can't continue their "Rose is evil narrative". Also, please teach them how to fight Roz Wei - the war you just fought against an alliance that you are now aiming to teach was a great show. Next war let's see you guys put on your big boy pants and hit a more polarizing alliance. 

 

Another thing you are forgetting Kastor is how tier systems work, a 1v1 war with Mensa was not favorable and I had told that to several people at the time. Hell I might have even said to Mensa "it would be a terrible idea for Rose to try and hit mensa due to the tiering issues." And as far as I know Rose has never neglected our protectorates, TLF was our protectorate for a very long time and we have always tried to make sure they are doing okay. Young just confirmed we had been sending them stuff during the last war despite being at war with nearly every alliance in the opposing sphere. Keep trying buddy, convince me your intentions are good-willed. So far all you've done is repeated "rose is bad, roz wei will help them instead" which now has completely fallen through with the direct source pointing out that Rose put in an honest effort. 

 

woah woah woah shouldn't you learn how to war first before you go off telling the newbies how to do it. 

[Luke the 13th]

Rose did teach us and help us with warchests. As I've said previously, I don't know the specifics of the FA side, and I don't remember getting a war guide. I was only in charge of the military side of things recently though, so maybe they sent a guide at some point that I'm not aware of. That being said, Vassili had told me that the former SWF members didn't get any assistance from Rose in what was essentially a harder fight than the one Phoenix took on in the 168 day war.

 

Sorry to be damper on this but I'm pretty sure failings occurred on both sides. Perhaps Rose didn't do as well as they could have on the matter, but that isn't to say Phoenix was perfect on the matter. Both alliances will move forward better I'm sure. 

And to that, I think Rozzy has the right idea here. It's probably in the interest of both alliances that the relationship is ended.

[jumin121]

Rose gave us guides for warchests and sent minimal resources months ago. We helped rose in their past wars and furthermore you were not ignored I told you we could not do it because you wanted us to hit an alliance that would wreck us, it would have killed us because we were unorganized and I stated this many times to rose. It is not our fault that we don't want to involve ourselves in your petty bullshit wars.

[Sketchy]

As far as I can remember, this is news to me.

 

The entire reason Phoenix got hit now is because we helped Rose in the last war.

 

You don't get to pick and choose which wars you want to be in.

 

Just because Pheonix helped in the previous war doesn't mean you can leave your allies stranded. Roz Wei didn't attack Phoenix at the start of the war, Phoenix had plenty of time to join before they even declared but chose not to. 

 

Rose gave us guides for warchests and sent minimal resources months ago. We helped rose in their past wars and furthermore you were not ignored I told you we could not do it because you wanted us to hit an alliance that would wreck us, it would have killed us because we were unorganized and I stated this many times to rose. It is not our fault that we don't want to involve ourselves in your petty bullshit wars.

 

This argument is ridiculous. What you are basically saying, is we were too unorganized to fight against our opponents, and as a result, we were scared of losing. We don't want to join your "petty bullshit wars" despite signing a treaty saying we would do so.

 

All this statement proves is you lack the competence to prepare yourselves for war, the honor to uphold the treaties you sign, and the loyalty to a sphere that you decided to be a part of.

 

What happens when Roz Wei, assuming you guys continue your partnership, decides to declare a war on someone, or has war declared on them? Will their wars be considered "petty bullshit" and above you?

Edited June 25, 2016 by Sketchy

[Baronus]

You don't get to pick and choose which wars you want to be in.

 

Just because Pheonix helped in the previous war doesn't mean you can leave your allies stranded. Roz Wei didn't attack Phoenix at the start of the war, Phoenix had plenty of time to join before they even declared but chose not to.

 

 

This argument is ridiculous. What you are basically saying, is we were too unorganized to fight against our opponents, and as a result, we were scared of losing. We don't want to join your "petty bullshit wars" despite signing a treaty saying we would do so.

 

All this statement proves is you lack the competence to prepare yourselves for war, the honor to uphold the treaties you sign, and the loyalty to a sphere that you decided to be a part of.

 

What happens when Roz Wei, assuming you guys continue your partnership, decides to declare a war on someone, or has war declared on them? Will their wars be considered "petty bullshit" and above you?

Uhmmm Roz Wei doesn't sign treaties. If we go to war and someone joins us it is completely voluntary.

[Kastor]

Half the allinces that come to Rose's aid wouldn't come to their aid if it wasn't for paper treaties. The above is just another example of Rose trying to strong arm alliances into being their meatshields. It's pathetic.

[Sketchy]

Uhmmm Roz Wei doesn't sign treaties. If we go to war and someone joins us it is completely voluntary.

 

Bad example, my point stands regardless.

[Sketchy]

Half the allinces that come to Rose's aid wouldn't come to their aid if it wasn't for paper treaties. The above is just another example of Rose trying to strong arm alliances into being their meatshields. It's pathetic.

 

Half the allies of any alliance wouldn't come to the aid of their partners without treaties, which is exactly WHY people sign them in the first place. So... your point?

 

Rose just joined and took a large amount of damage in their allies defense, despite the very serious likelihood of loss and being dogpiled by a bunch of different alliances. 

 

So saying we just "strong arm alliances into being our meatshields" is an obvious attempt by you to push the "Rose is an evil abuser of smaller alliances" narrative, because your "Rose is salty they lost an ally because of us" narrative failed once you realized we didn't care.

 

If Phoenix didn't want to involve themselves in our "petty bullshit wars" the simplest thing would have been not to sign a treaty.

 

Anyway, I'll be waiting here, feel free to come back with a new narrative for me to debunk.

[greatkitteh]

Half the allinces that come to Rose's aid wouldn't come to their aid if it wasn't for paper treaties. The above is just another example of Rose trying to strong arm alliances into being their meatshields. It's pathetic.

>Roz Wei just strongarmed Phoenix

>K

[Rozalia]

Half the allies of any alliance wouldn't come to the aid of their partners without treaties, which is exactly WHY people sign them in the first place. So... your point?

 

Rose just joined and took a large amount of damage in their allies defense, despite the very serious likelihood of loss and being dogpiled by a bunch of different alliances. 

 

So saying we just "strong arm alliances into being our meatshields" is an obvious attempt by you to push the "Rose is an evil abuser of smaller alliances" narrative, because your "Rose is salty they lost an ally because of us" narrative failed once you realized we didn't care.

 

If Phoenix didn't want to involve themselves in our "petty bullshit wars" the simplest thing would have been not to sign a treaty.

 

Anyway, I'll be waiting here, feel free to come back with a new narrative for me to debunk.

 

I've been saying Rose doesn't care for quite a while myself for a couple of reasons, perfectly valid reasons mind. 

 

Anyway all this feels a bit blown up and neither Phoenix, myself and I'm sure Rose for that matter want a part of it.

[Young]

Mfw my little pet alliance I made when I left cobalt is causing so much shit, I like rose, I like Roz, I like Phoenix, so let's just exchange nudes and be happy k?

[Kastor]

Half the allies of any alliance wouldn't come to the aid of their partners without treaties, which is exactly WHY people sign them in the first place. So... your point?

 

Rose just joined and took a large amount of damage in their allies defense, despite the very serious likelihood of loss and being dogpiled by a bunch of different alliances. 

 

So saying we just "strong arm alliances into being our meatshields" is an obvious attempt by you to push the "Rose is an evil abuser of smaller alliances" narrative, because your "Rose is salty they lost an ally because of us" narrative failed once you realized we didn't care.

 

If Phoenix didn't want to involve themselves in our "petty bullshit wars" the simplest thing would have been not to sign a treaty.

 

Anyway, I'll be waiting here, feel free to come back with a new narrative for me to debunk.

No, Rose signed them to counter Syndisphere. Pubstomper has said this multiple times on the radio show. And when did Rose get dogpiled on? In the 168 day war, when you DECLARED an OFFENSIVE war? When all yor allies COUNTERED in on their treaties?

 

How about when you were the first one to peace out this war? How about when you called Storm Divsion traitors and dropped them mid war because they honored a treaty with the opposite side? What about when you guys were going to declare on Cobalt(what, six times?)?

 

Rose has been a horrid alliance since Kurdanak stepped down. Even then he was a dick. Rose has a of strong arming smaller alliances.