Jodo Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I don't speak for my gov. But if I did, here's what my thoughts would be hypothetically... BK and UPN both have tried to be good allies. Both have fallen a bit short for multiple and debatable reasons. Going forward, the treaty should be revised to fix it's flaws. Communication between them should be a constant effort from both sides. Inb4strumspanksme 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangui Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) The attack on NAC was because of miscommunication. We attempted to broker peace but UPN would accept nothing less the SK leaving the war completely. We offered reps and peace wit NAC. Also, you went into old stuff first. I'm just clarifying the accurate version of events. Edit: holy shit did you just try to argue that SK saying "our side vs theres" gave you justification to hit TKR? *facepalms*. Guess you're Steve 2.0 I'll repeat. UPN activated its oAP of the MDoAP with VE to enter the war. Edited June 15, 2016 by Pangui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boony Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I'll repeat. UPN activated its oAP of the MDoAP with VE to enter the war. And BK is oAP in to hit NPO, but that's somehow worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangui Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 And BK is oAP in to hit NPO, but that's somehow worse. Yea, because I told BK that if anything where to happen to NPO, UPN planned on defending them. Then I wasn't even given a heads up that might put us at odds. Just "Ok, we will take this to our gov" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Yea, because I told BK that if anything where to happen to NPO, UPN planned on defending them. Then I wasn't even given a heads up that might put us at odds. Just "Ok, we will take this to our gov" Nearsightedness on fleek. Should've thought about the implications of that treaty lmao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangui Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Kinda like how tS was pissy when we declared on you after you signed with SK and Guardian? Get over yourself. Edited June 15, 2016 by Pangui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boony Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Yea, because I told BK that if anything where to happen to NPO, UPN planned on defending them. Then I wasn't even given a heads up that might put us at odds. Just "Ok, we will take this to our gov" I can't comprehend the fact that you lied to BK in one war and hit their ally, and in another war optionally came in and hit BK's blocmate, and you have the nerve you suggest that what they did here is somehow worse. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangui Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 They knew UPN was going to be attacked. UPN has never planned a war in which BK was going to be hit aggressively. I've never been in a channel where people have discussed hitting BK in even defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 They knew UPN was going to be attacked. UPN has never planned a war in which BK was going to be hit aggressively. I've never been in a channel where people have discussed hitting BK in even defense. Yeeee just misinforming them amirite Kinda like how tS was pissy when we declared on you after you signed with SK and Guardian? Get over yourself. We did get over it after rolling you guys a couple times lmfao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Kinda like how tS was pissy when we declared on you after you signed with SK and Guardian? Get over yourself. Not the same situation here. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguar Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 ... BK and UPN both have tried to be good allies. Both have fallen a bit short for multiple and debatable reasons. Going forward, the treaty should be revised to fix it's flaws. Communication between them should be a constant effort from both sides. Inb4strumspanksme Already been done too many times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyvbuck Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Already been done too many times What has? We have never once tried to fix anything about the UPN treaty, even after the past issues we never really tried to change anything. BK and UPN seemed fine leaving things the way they were, and may do so again after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 yah tbh UPN are our closest allies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangui Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Not the same situation here.Care to explain the difference? UPN saw tS and her new allies as a threat. UPN preemptively strikes tS and withholds it from BK. tS now sees UPN and NPO as a threat and launches a preemptive strike to take them out. BK withholds this from UPN. DEIC even planned on the strike to hit their ally SK, and BK planned a strike that involved someone hitting their MD level ally, UPN. Edited June 15, 2016 by Pangui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNG Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Care to explain the difference? UPN saw tS and her new allies as a threat. UPN preemptively strikes tS and withholds it from BK. tS now sees UPN and NPO as a threat and launches a preemptive strike to take them out. BK withholds this from UPN. DEIC even planned on the strike to hit their ally SK, and BK planned a strike that involved someone hitting their MD level ally, UPN. To be sure, during Oktoberfest, DEIC didn't play much of a role in planning the attack on SK, as that we didn't plan to participate in that fight, only against tS and TEst. Quote "They say the secret to success is being at the right place at the right time. But since you never know when the right time is going to be, I figure the trick is to find the right place and just hang around!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <Kastor> He left and my !@#$ nation is !@#$ed up. And the Finance guy refuses to help. He just writes his !@#$ plays. <Kastor> And laughs and shit. <Kastor> And gives out !@#$ huge loans to Arthur James, that !@#$ bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangui Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 To be sure, during Oktoberfest, DEIC didn't play much of a role in planning the attack on SK, as that we didn't plan to participate in that fight, only against tS and TEst. I'm aware, but DEIC was demonized for it, but now that the script is flipped it is okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yosodog Posted June 15, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2016 Care to explain the difference? UPN saw tS and her new allies as a threat. UPN preemptively strikes tS and withholds it from BK. tS now sees UPN and NPO as a threat and launches a preemptive strike to take them out. BK withholds this from UPN. DEIC even planned on the strike to hit their ally SK, and BK planned a strike that involved someone hitting their MD level ally, UPN. You don't understand what I've been going through. I've been betrayed, and hurt. This isn't your fault, it's not anyone's fault. When I tasted the spaghetti, the taste was fine. I didn't expect the spice. It hurt me. The spice burned my throat, my tongue, my mouth, my soul. Spaghetti, my true love, which I engulfed with great speed, damaged me more than you could ever understand. You don't get it. All these memes and jokes about spaghetti, but I've loved it since I was born. It was perfect. Not the noodles, not just pasta. Spaghetti. Pasta with meat sauce. No one will understand me when I say this, but I have an undying love for spaghetti. And having that spice betray me like that? I don't think I can go through anything like this again. I can taste it, months later, I can taste the burn of betrayal. It hurts. When I was young, I remember the peaceful bliss of stuffing myself with the spaghetti, smooth and silky, the perfect food, the perfect taste. All of my happiness, and bliss, ripped away by just once spice. The pain of this is too much to bear, but I must go on. I must go on. 8 Quote [22:37:51] <&Yosodog> Problem is, everyone is too busy deciding which top gun character they are that no decision has been made BK in a nutshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomorph Queen Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Winchell Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Not the same situation here.Can confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italiarule Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 A couple of years on, you are still rather special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keksalot Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 ayy lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Curufinwe Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Care to explain the difference? UPN saw tS and her new allies as a threat. UPN preemptively strikes tS and withholds it from BK. tS now sees UPN and NPO as a threat and launches a preemptive strike to take them out. BK withholds this from UPN. DEIC even planned on the strike to hit their ally SK, and BK planned a strike that involved someone hitting their MD level ally, UPN. I'm aware, but DEIC was demonized for it, but now that the script is flipped it is okay.Well, I'm not trying to make the case that 'it's okay,' but I will offer two points of clarification as a response to the issues you have raised. 1) As was outlined earlier in the thread, BK's war is directed against NPO (and Sparta, apparently) rather than UPN. We have no ill will toward UPN (although we were obviously not enthusiastic over your choice to treaty NPO), but your decision to ally and your determination to defend them (which you communicated to me and I communicated to our gov) created a situation wherein you were likely to be pre-empted if and when hostilities occurred. Ideally we would have preferred to see UPN not get hit at all, but given the treaty relationship you have chosen to erect between yourselves, Paragon and NPO it was largely unavoidable if OO and tS were going to successfully wage war against the Para-covenant side of the line. Is it fair? Perhaps not. But, as I've discussed with Kelson, the way in which the treaty web has played out has created a dynamic wherein these types of situations are probably unavoidable as long as cross-sphere ties exist. 2) Both sides have withheld sensitive information from each other in the past in order to support the coalition which they have attached themselves to in a given war. Is it more heinous of UPN to fail to inform BK that tS would be hit during Oktoberfest, or TKR during Bored, than it was to was for us to not tell you that tS and friends were perhaps headed your way? That's for UPN to decide, but from our perspective they're not so dissimilar. If you actively plan to hit our closest allies and thereby draw us into a war where we will be open to counters by your allies (as happened during Oktoberfest) it is still a fairly significant blow to BK, even if your allies refrain from hitting us outright in the first wave of attacks. I would argue that we're evaluating different shades of gray here - both BK and UPN have kept information from each other to further coalition goals for reasons they believed were justified, which is probably an inevitable result of our links to other spheres. Edited June 16, 2016 by Curufinwe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boony Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I'm aware, but DEIC was demonized for it, but now that the script is flipped it is okay. DEIC was demonized for attacking SK, their treaty partner. That didn't happen here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosodog Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 A couple of years on, you are still rather special. <3 Bring back LiQ bro Quote [22:37:51] <&Yosodog> Problem is, everyone is too busy deciding which top gun character they are that no decision has been made BK in a nutshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Yea, because I told BK that if anything where to happen to NPO, UPN planned on defending them. Then I wasn't even given a heads up that might put us at odds. Just "Ok, we will take this to our gov" You needed a heads up so as to understand that planning to defend your ally would lead to you being viewed as being in the opposing coalition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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