A quick Partisan note to NPO

[greatkitteh]

Actually, it does look like TS was threatening NPO and Alpha. But that's my opinion.

 

 

 

INB4 the thought police shows up

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by greatkitteh

[James II]

Absolute pish. Besides the last few months when I wasn't there I never saw any member or gov member ever attempt to emulate MI6 in any manner whatsoever. Quite the opposite actually, who in their right mind would want to emulate MI6?

Why don't you ask Roy and Partisan. They are the ones that want too.

[Keegoz]

Sounds good! What would it take to make this happen?

Let's all sign a MAP that only pertains to GPA.

[Phiney]

Well this is the worst thing ever. I just want to weigh In on one thing, placentica, stop trying to claim calling you Steve is crossover. I have not do not and will not play that shitty game but know you as Steve simply because you are present and active in pnw irc channels as Steve.

[Roy Mustang]

People still use nations states? What year is this?

 

PW NPO claims they face an existential threat to (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) NPO, which even without specifics is fair enough, plenty of people don't want NPO simply for previous NPO attempts. PW NPO has gone to "one sphere," except they also hold SK, so clearly not so much. PW NPO used a t$ log to prove a long standing point to (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) NPO, maybe it's out of context and a gross generalization, but it does make a valid point that sums up a lot of PW NPO's experience here. Instead of asking useful behind the scenes questions, t$ posts walls of text on the forums, cause they want point by point arguments rather than NPO's version of the truth, like always.

 

Actually I just got a recruit from NationStates the other day. Nearly fell out of my chair when he told me he was from there

 

PW NPO holds treaties with VE, UPN, Polaris, Alpha, SK, and TKR. You are correct that we share SK and TKR as mutual allies, however again, it comes back to "who else would pose an existential threat to them?"

 

Sparta shares all three of their allies with NPO, it's certainly not them.

DEIC shares their only ally with NPO, it would be suicide for them.

Rose shares three allies with NPO, again unlikely.

 

In my mind, that very quickly brings you down to 

Guardian (1 shared)

Mensa (1 shared)

BK (1 shared)

BoC (1 shared)

tS (2 shared)

 

Assuming we're picking one of those 5 alliances (or some combination thereof) as PW NPO's existential threat, that means tS would be militarily involved in this upcoming conflict (whether as an initial participant or as a chain-in). Again, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for clarification when, to this point, tS gov as a whole has been content to sit back and say "meh" when asked about NPO.

 

 

I apologize if I left out any smaller AAs, but I was taking too long with this post as it was (too many distractions).

[Roy Mustang]

Why don't you ask Roy and Partisan. They are the ones that want too.

 

Genuine question, how do you figure?

[Roy Mustang]

How is it our fault the anti-NPO sentiment within players comes primarily from your sphere? We didn't tell anyone from there to post against us. The Chim screenshot was a classic case of him saying something that could easily be used against him and others and he has a propensity for making those sorts of comments. It captured in a bite-sized message sentiment that has been expressed here, on irc, and other mediums by various people. It's a lot easier than asking people to read each topic where we're criticized and asking them to ID the posters' affiliation. Think of it as a summary of prevailing opinions on here. It's simply a case where there is a collection of players who harbor the sentiment and if they are allowed to set the tone with no pushback, it's a problem for us regardless of their affiliation and they just mainly happen to be sitting on one side of the fence.  We didn't ask Corvo to make the poll as a member of BK. We didn't ask Chim to say the stuff he did while he was considering leaving tS and praising other alliances in the same sphere.  

 

No one ever said it was your fault that anti-NPO sentiment comes from any particular place, let's be honest though it's simple self-selection - players who dislike you (whether that's because of the way your members handle themselves on the forum, they way you play the game, your flag, or something OOC) aren't likely to remain in alliances that are close to you, and are more likely to join alliances that are not close to you. You are more heavily connected to the Paracovenant pole, so simple self-selection would dictate that members who dislike you would move away. It's like magnetism.

 

Thank you, however, for answering my question, however inadvertent it may have been. We're the threat (or rather, us and our allies are), by virtue of self-selection. Good to know, I'll take that into advisement.

[Roquentin]

Okay maybe I need to break this down to it's most basic component.

 

PW NPO claims that there is an existential threat to its survival. Given that Orbis politics are bipolar, and PW NPO is firmly tied via several treaties to one pole, the logical conclusion is that the existential threat must be the other pole (anchored by tS and our many treaties, as you guys are so fond of mentioning). PW NPO claims that we are not the existential threat that is referenced. Therefore, tS would very much like to know who is this existential threat. Frankly I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to wonder.

 

The fact that this alleged threat was used to recruit elsewhere isn't really important to the actual question - if this were posted on Nationstates we'd be wondering the exact same thing.

 

 

 

 We expect people who harbor ill sentiments against us to take advantage of opportunities if they come by and we would  have definitely been under heavy fire if the Alpha war had expanded.  We can't simply ignore it when it's in every topic we post.  The kind of stuff in the screen isn't exactly uncommon and people feel free to say it.  I can't imagine people saying tS is going to get killed/wrecked openly like people do with NPO. Given the issue of potential spillover from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) for a topic made by someone who isn't relevant in PW, we felt the threat going up significantly for retaliation sooner or later.  

 

 

Ok, as a person who isn't in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and never has been, this just seems entirely stupid.

 

From what I have read on these forums, it seems the alliance equivalent of Alpha declare on the alliance equivalent of T$ in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) with "For Steve", and as far as I know Steve in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) is Placentica. So it appears that in retaliation to getting effectively besieged by T$ on orbis, Alpha has decided to retaliate through (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) where they hold the upper hand. Under these circumstances it seems the current crossover can be attributed to Alpha, and spiraling out of control from there. While some crossover is to be expected due to alignments that are apparently pretty stable in regards to (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), having policy decisions influenced in one game based on the other seems to be an ineffective way to play both games, if we are attempting to keep the two Universes separate. In which case, in regards to this specific situation, Alpha appears to be the transgressor.

 

Also, for anti-NPO sentiment existing in one sphere, I question your statement. If it was as severe as you have suggested, why would you have an MDoAP with TKR, who is clearly stuck in the other sphere from the rest of your allies? There may be some carry over in T$ for instance, which is clearly opposite of you in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), but given that IC is technically in MI6 last I heard from him, if such hate was as common place as you seem to be suggesting, this treaty should not have arisen. Clearly this game should be kept separate from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) or other similar games with similar alliance breakdowns. In which case, I am suggesting NPO is attempting to overstate the threat to themselves due to perceived levels of hate from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) MI6 members in T$.

 

In regards to T$, I am curious as to what degree the perceived threat of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) NPO members jumping ship to P&W impacts your policies. Ideally it should not impact you due to the fact that these players should be treated as new players joining NPO on their own accord. As such, I view their current reaction to be unnecessary and wildly out of line in regards to the given situation, which probably increased the level of tension in regards to this entire situation. Basically, I am suggesting T$ is blowing up a situation that doesn't heavily apply. While defending chimera from an unnecessary accusation is in fact something that you should have done, the rest of the OP is overreacting to a situation that should not heavily impact how this game plays out.

 

All in all, in regards to this situation, I see Alpha as the transgressor of the bridging of the two universes, NPO as failing at perceiving a supposed threat that they have heavily exaggerated, and T$ blowing up a situation that wasn't nearly as large as provided. This has since spiraled out of control as each alliance attempts to uphold its standing and reputation within P&W.

Not a member of TKR gov, do not take this as a message from TKR gov

 

In the other topic, I went into the reasons why MI6 was attacked and they had nothing to do with P&W. Someone had fun with the DoW who isn't gov in PW.   Alpha gov had no  involvement in the planning there. Again, Steve has little influence in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). 

 

 

There hasn't been anti-NPO sentiment from TKR on here. We recognize our allies have relationships predating ours and in some cases they will take priority. Infinite Citadel isn't in MI6. He's in ODN, but we've had positive relationships with MI6 members in the past in P&W, so it's not what determines our fa. We didn't say all of tSphere harbors hostile sentiments, but the players who see NPO as an issue from both a metagame and IC perspective are mainly aligned there.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Roquentin

[Buorhann]

Seriously, let's war.

 

People already discussed that NPO would become a major player into the PnW scene when they started.  Let's introduce them to the big boy club, and let's begin treaty trigger time.

 

Hell, we have quite a few alliances built up for war anyways.  Let's blow the load and get rid of our blue balls.

[greatkitteh]

 

So on one side we'll have NPO. . .

 

 

And if you're wondering, here's TS from the OWF.

 

 

*NOT REPRESENTITIVE OF UPN GOV; AND CONTUARY TO POPULAR BELIF DIO DOESN'T EXIST. DON'T SPIN "GREATKITTEH IS DA NEXT CHIECKSGUYS OR SOME SHIT.

Edited June 10, 2016 by greatkitteh

[Insert Name Here]

Ah, now I get it...

What do we do when we have a thread filled with BS?

We create another one!

Can I create my own?

I promise it won't be nearly as whiny as these ones about (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) - a game that many of us don't give two shits about, by the way.

If this back and forth of moaning is what it takes to get a world war around here, I'm starting to believe it ain't worth it.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Insert Name Here

[greatkitteh]

Ah, now I get it...

What do we do when we have a thread filled with BS?

We create another one!

Can I create my own?

I promise it won't be nearly as whiny as these ones about (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) - a game that many of us don't give two shits about, by the way.

If this back and forth of moaning is what it takes to get a world war around here, I'm starting to believe it ain't worth it.

Knowing the OWF you'll immediately get bombarded by "BUILD UP YOUR NATION."

 

I'm a pretty bad poster though.

[Kid Winchell]

I wonder how long it will take before the posts complaining about this shit thread overtake the number of legitimate posts in this shit thread.

[Aero]

I wonder how long it will take before the posts complaining about this shit thread overtake the number of legitimate posts in this shit thread.

 Question is. Where does your comment fall between those 2 options?

[Ivan the Red]

I do not care about NPO recruiting from his parent (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) alliance. Everyone in any game of this kind tries to poach members from other active communities he belongs to.

 

I however care about two things:

 

1) The screens shows that NPO is spreading among his members a narrative about an upcoming conflict, citing as proof a message from a t$ member. This means that NPO is predisposing its members for a war with our sphere.

 

2) The fact that NPO's recruiting policy appears to involve getting many mules into PnW. I expect this to have very funny implications should NPO ever finds itself involved in a real war.

[Eumirbago]

Oh lel. I've always had "Join MI6" as my war reason for every war I've declared. Except a couple (Stopping keegoz from taking treasure and some other war). Proof: Ask every Rose/UPN/etc nations I rekt lel

 

Edit: Also let's git it tho. I wanna see wut Vanguard 2.0 is all about lmfao.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Eumirbago

[greatkitteh]

I do not care about NPO recruiting from his parent (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) alliance. Everyone in any game of this kind tries to poach members from other active communities he belongs to.

 

I however care about two things:

 

1) The screens shows that NPO is spreading among his members a narrative about an upcoming conflict, citing as proof a message from a t$ member. This means that NPO is predisposing its members for a war with our sphere.

 

2) The fact that NPO's recruiting policy appears to involve getting many mules into PnW. I expect this to have very funny implications should NPO ever finds itself involved in a real war.

2) How is NPO starting the war when every provocation on Orbis was done by TS or an alliance on the TS side during the bored war? It's a sminge hypocritical to blame NPO for trying to start a war while simoutaniously threatening them via IRC. Edited June 10, 2016 by greatkitteh

[Flanderlion]

People still use nations states? What year is this?

Nationstates is a little (okay, a lot) bigger than PW and (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) combined. Come on, it's Current Year...

 

Seriously though, I'm from NS NPO (dabbled a bit in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) to see what it was, but PW is something I actually play), and we've got a few recruits going over to PW (along with a few members in NS that are in 'potentially' hostile alliances to the PW NPO and for the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) NPO.)

[Prefonteen]

For the last time, look to your left of this post, you see that my name is Placentica, right? Where was Placentica mentioned in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)?

 

Stop trying to pull (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) drama into PnW.

The irc name which you use to drive literally every single one of your negotiations is 'Steve buscemi'.

 

Nice try. Now address the body of the post if you want more attention.

[Roquentin]

2) How is NPO starting the war when every provocation on Orbis was done by TS or an alliance on the TS side during the bored war? It's a sminge hypocritical to blame NPO for trying to start a war while simoutaniously threatening them via IRC.

I mean, our concerns are ultimately defensive, so it's really interesting that Ivan wants to frame it as us initiating somehow.  This topic was in bad faith and had tS had any interest in actually discussing issues, they would have been fine talking it out privately.

[8mrgrim8]

0/10 terrible post as per usual.

 

tS trying to pick off another para-covenant alliance go figure.

 

 

That'd be asking too much of t$

 

Too much salt, I sense in you

[Spaceman Thrax]

I mean, our concerns are ultimately defensive, so it's really interesting that Ivan wants to frame it as us initiating somehow.  This topic was in bad faith and had tS had any interest in actually discussing issues, they would have been fine talking it out privately.

 

You're more than welcome to address the concerns more privately, if that is your preference. Given that we had heard from other alliances that you raised these issues, including the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)-blurring element, Partisan opted for the public approach.

[Kastor]

I'm really good at starting shit.

[MrHat]

A few things are to be noted:

 

1. The post in question omits that Chimaera holds no sway over t$ government, and is but a member.

2. The cropped out of context log frames Chimaera- portraying him to be threatening Pacifica

3. This threat is then used to rally around.

4. Future war is implied.

 

We are well aware that this same log has been circulating, both in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and PW, among various alliances. The circulation of the log seems like a deliberate PR effort aimed at the Syndicate.  Please view the context surrounding the log earlier in this thread for clarification.

 

Pacifica, from you I ask the following:

 

Why are you framing t$ members and t$ in order to rally around a nonexistent threat?

Why are you tieing your mass influx to supposed imminent war with t$?

Why do you continue to pretend that Chimaera holds sway in t$ government, despite having been told the contrary on multiple occasions?

Why do you and yours mix this game with planet bob, then try to pin it on t$ while secretly continuing with said mixture?

 

I look forward to your response.

 

We never claimed Chim is gov, we never claimed he has sway over TS gov. When I posted this screen shot in the other thread that you mentioned, it was in direct response to Auctor saying this: 

 

 

Ok, let's get really real here. When there are folks in your alliance and in your allies alliances telling us we're going to be driven out of this world because of our standing in another, and then some of those same folks and yourself threatening retaliation on us here entirely based on what people other than ourselves said in that other world, it becomes really hard to believe that preventing crossover politics is something you're sincerely invested in.

 

and then the ask for proof: 

 

 

Screen caps of these messages?  That seems strange.

 

Auctor said "folks in your alliance," not a gov member. 

 

Here are the full logs, as you posted: 

 

 

Thank you for proving my point. Full logs:

 

11<Chimaera> [19:20] <%Chimaera> Syndicate just happens to be the only group that isn't miserably incompetent

<Chimaera> [19:20] <Prezyan> i let them go freee

<Chimaera> [19:20] <%Chimaera> Which is why they keep winning

<Chimaera> [19:20] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> I mean

<Chimaera> [19:20] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> Y'all also have a high NS

<Chimaera> [19:20] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> So there's that

<Chimaera> [19:21] <%Chimaera> I mean, I'm pretty sure I've been here for two wars where NS at the start of the war favored the other side

11<Chimaera> [19:21] <%Chimaera> They were just incompetent piles of trash compared to Syndicate's finely tuned MI6 and Spartan soldiers.  

<Chimaera> [19:22] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> There are other good alliances

<Chimaera> [19:22] <%Chimaera> There...really aren't.

<Chimaera> [19:22] <%Chimaera> Well, TKR seems pretty good

<Chimaera> [19:22] <+NotABot> what the hell did ram, and i installed it on tkr thb

<Chimaera> [19:22] <%Chimaera> I might go there after the war, I love IC and Az to death

<Chimaera> [19:22] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> NPO? 

<Chimaera> [19:23] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> We aren't bad 

<Chimaera> [19:23] <%Chimaera> Eh.  You'll get killed off next war...nobody in this game wants you here.  Happened once in PnW already.  

<Chimaera> [19:23] <%Chimaera> Whether that's fair or not, that's what is going to happen

<Chimaera> [19:24] <%Chimaera> Side effect of yall winning (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways)

11<Chimaera> [19:27] <%Chimaera> Plus your only ally who actually likes you is on some sort of insane suicide mission with regards to Syndicate.  

<Chimaera> [19:27] <%Chimaera> Which I respect btw, I respect intense hatred.  

<Chimaera> [19:28] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> Alpha will survive

<Chimaera> [19:28] <%Chimaera> Sure, they'll survive

<Chimaera> [19:28] <%Chimaera> But they'll have no money, and it'll take them ages to get back to the tier they were at once

<Chimaera> [19:28] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> They have money

<Chimaera> [19:29] <@G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> Alpha isn't stupid

<Chimaera> [19:29] <%Chimaera> I...wouldn't go that far.  

 

 

Certainly not a threat. Only a bunch of dudes from both sides kicking the shit, and chim offering his opinion. You make it out to be far more malicious than it is. Why is it that you use cropped logs to paint a false narrative?

 

To be completely honest, I don't understand how that isn't a threat? Yes, he's a member. Yes, he has no sway. Did we show all the logs to everyone? Nope. But even if we had, I still read that as quite disturbing and yes, view it as a threat as I'm sure you would do the same if that had been an NPO member saying the same things about TS. 

 

 

This threat is then used to rally around

 

 

 

Well yes, it is. You just called it a threat, which is how we took it. And are you not using us considering it as a threat, as propoganda to rally around? You're literally rallying around us rallying around a threat to our AA.

 

Future war is implied

 

Well...yea, it is.  I've heard from people that all of a sudden NPO might get hit. Future war is implied because now all of a sudden, even though NPO has made no threat towards TS, never planned against TS, and tbqh has 0 plans of attacking TS, We're quite on the defensive. 

 

 

Why are you framing t$ members and t$ in order to rally around a nonexistent threat?

 

Why are you tieing your mass influx to supposed imminent war with t$?

 

Why are you framing NPO with this post in order to rally around a nonexistent threat? 

 

Lol mass influx... 8-9 members who have no idea what they're doing, and even if we did get in a war any time soon wouldn't fight. 

 

 

Why do you continue to pretend that Chimaera holds sway in t$ government, despite having been told the contrary on multiple occasions?

 

Never have, and won't unless he's fairly elected to gov. Chim was brought up as reasons for the war in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways), and Chim was brought up in regards to being the one who said those logs that were posted. 

 

 

Why do you and yours mix this game with planet bob, then try to pin it on t$ while secretly continuing with said mixture?

 

So first off, let's agree that we have both recruited from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways)? Fair. 

 

Why are you bringing logs from the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) branch of NPO, of which the forums are completely separate, and try to pin something on NPO? 

 

You do realize that this post, along with the last one was brought up because of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways)? You do realize that while yes, in both this thread and the other (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) and P&W have been blended together? You do realize, that you started THIS post, that mixes (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) AND P&W together? Am I guilty of it? Of course I am, as I've posted in both threads that were pertaining to the mixing of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) and P&W.  But you are far from having your hands clean, so I ask the same question back to you - Why do you and yours mix this game with planet bob, then try to pin it on NPO while secretly continuing with said mixture? 

 

 

 

Also, going to reply to this here as it's relevant: 

 

 

-snip-

 

Ah the good ol victim card. I encourage you to take a gander at this OP and see how many people play the victim card. 

 

 

Sorry for the edits, i forgot word

Edited June 10, 2016 by MrHat

[Buorhann]

Look, I've been posting a lot about fighting and going to war.  You know, cutting through all this bullshit.  Why am I not being quoted as a threat?

 

C'mon guys.

 

But srsly, let's fight.