A quick Partisan note to NPO

[Auctor]

[Prefonteen]

I mean, our concerns are ultimately defensive, so it's really interesting that Ivan wants to frame it as us initiating somehow.  This topic was in bad faith and had tS had any interest in actually discussing issues, they would have been fine talking it out privately.

 

With all due respect: The last 5 - 10 times I tried to utilize private channels with those who perceive me as an opponent, I was lied to and doublecrossed in public, showing a blatant disregard for said queries. This necessitated logdumps to clear t$' name and interests at the time. In addition, NPO never notified us of their concerns regarding the chimaera comments when they occurred. Instead you waved it around and ran around like a dog with a bone for cheap PR points (again: You cropped the log to make it seem more pressing than it is. That in itself shows enough).

 

So no, I have no reason to utilize private channels in this one.

 

I've provided you with the opportunity to publically discuss this matter with us. You are free to bring it to our forums and discuss it there in a slightly more private setting, or take it to query, but I will reserve the right to open those talks up should your public statements contradict your private ones.

 

Lastly I will note that had I been so inclined, I could have simply kept this screenshot to myself, drawn my conclusions and posted it at a later time accompanied with a Declaration of War. That would have been indicative of having absolutely no interest in diplomacy. As it stands, I have brought the matter to your attention. It is up to you how you deal with it. The framing is not helping, however.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Partisan

[Aisha Greyjoy]

Could ya'all just STFU and someone issue a DoW already?

[Hooves]

*sees (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) conflicts, (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) recruitment, (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) treaties and (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) politics*

 

I honestly don't care anymore. It's already been confirmed long ago that people want to bring (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) into this game.

[Buorhann]

-lame comic snip-

 

 

You make it sound like it's a bad thing if we go to war.

[Prefonteen]

We never claimed Chim is gov, we never claimed he has sway over TS gov. When I posted this screen shot in the other thread that you mentioned, it was in direct response to Auctor saying this: 

 

 

 

and then the ask for proof: 

 

 

 

Auctor said "folks in your alliance," not a gov member. 

 

Here are the full logs, as you posted: 

 

 

 

To be completely honest, I don't understand how that isn't a threat? Yes, he's a member. Yes, he has no sway. Did we show all the logs to everyone? Nope. But even if we had, I still read that as quite disturbing and yes, view it as a threat as I'm sure you would do the same if that had been an NPO member saying the same things about TS. 

 

 

 

Well yes, it is. You just called it a threat, which is how we took it. And are you not using us considering it as a threat, as propoganda to rally around? You're literally rallying around us rallying around a threat to our AA.

 

 

Well...yea, it is.  I've heard from people that all of a sudden NPO might get hit. Future war is implied because now all of a sudden, even though NPO has made no threat towards TS, never planned against TS, and tbqh has 0 plans of attacking TS, We're quite on the defensive. 

 

 

 

Why are you framing NPO with this post in order to rally around a nonexistent threat? 

 

Lol mass influx... 8-9 members who have no idea what they're doing, and even if we did get in a war any time soon wouldn't fight. 

 

 

Never have, and won't unless he's fairly elected to gov. Chim was brought up as reasons for the war in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), and Chim was brought up in regards to being the one who said those logs that were posted. 

 

 

So first off, let's agree that we have both recruited from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)? Fair. 

 

Why are you bringing logs from the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) branch of NPO, of which the forums are completely separate, and try to pin something on NPO? 

 

You do realize that this post, along with the last one was brought up because of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)? You do realize that while yes, in both this thread and the other (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and P&W have been blended together? You do realize, that you started THIS post, that mixes (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) AND P&W together? Am I guilty of it? Of course I am, as I've posted in both threads that were pertaining to the mixing of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and P&W.  But you are far from having your hands clean, so I ask the same question back to you - Why do you and yours mix this game with planet bob, then try to pin it on NPO while secretly continuing with said mixture? 

 

 

 

Also, going to reply to this here as it's relevant: 

 

 

 

Ah the good ol victim card. I encourage you to take a gander at this OP and see how many people play the victim card. 

 

 

Sorry for the edits, i forgot word

 

 

We never claimed Chim is gov, we never claimed he has sway over TS gov. When I posted this screen shot in the other thread that you mentioned, it was in direct response to Auctor saying this: 

 

 

 

Yet again: Your alliance consistently brings up chim where t$ is concerned, and literally uses an out-of-context quote from him in an OOC channel to both rally its own members and score PR points in backrooms. Chim's words are directly linked to supposed Syndicate foreign policy and him being govt is heavily implied. All without at any point bringing the quote to t$' attention before you brought it out as a part of your rationale surrounding a (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) DoW. You're playing word semantics right now.

 

 

To be completely honest, I don't understand how that isn't a threat? Yes, he's a member. Yes, he has no sway. Did we show all the logs to everyone? Nope. But even if we had, I still read that as quite disturbing and yes, view it as a threat as I'm sure you would do the same if that had been an NPO member saying the same things about TS. 

 

 

 

By that logic, Rose, VE, UPN and various others have threatened The Syndicate, and I have reason to rally around that cry and take defensive measures? If you feel threatened by a single quote from an inactive non-member in an OOC setting, and if you feel that that constitutes enough of a threat to run around with said (cropped) quote, you are not going to make it in this game. The Syndicate has been under far, far more scrutiny in the past, and far worse things have been said about us. 

 

It was not a threat. It was a couple of grunts talking. The channel owner himself has already come out and confirmed as much. You blowing that up is why we are here right now.

Well yes, it is. You just called it a threat, which is how we took it. And are you not using us considering it as a threat, as propoganda to rally around? You're literally rallying around us rallying around a threat to our AA.

 

 

I explicitly referred to 'this threat' as the perception of a threat which you had just created in my recollection. Again: Word semantics. Can we not?

 

 

Well...yea, it is.  I've heard from people that all of a sudden NPO might get hit. Future war is implied because now all of a sudden, even though NPO has made no threat towards TS, never planned against TS, and tbqh has 0 plans of attacking TS, We're quite on the defensive. 

 

 

 

Again: Rumors will swirl around your alliance for the coming years as you come into your own. It was that way with us, it was that way with covenant. It was that way with guardiansphere. It was that way with Paragon. You'll have to deal with that. The first rumors on this one began the *moment* you hit MI6 in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and originated from your side. Specifically: People immediately began inquiring what t$' reaction would be. Seems odd. Almost as if it was expected going in. See what i'm getting at?

 

 

Why are you framing NPO with this post in order to rally around a nonexistent threat? 

 

 

 

Am I framing, or calling you out on an inconsistency with your 'no OOC' narrative? You're literally framing t$ with a cropped log to support your internal cohesiveness and external standing. Did you really expect to do that without a retort?

 

 

 

Never have, and won't unless he's fairly elected to gov. Chim was brought up as reasons for the war in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), and Chim was brought up in regards to being the one who said those logs that were posted. 

 

 

 

Chim had his conversation cropped to make him see beliggerent, and that cropped log was used to imply t$ policy. Come on man. Who are you kidding?

 

So first off, let's agree that we have both recruited from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)? Fair. 

 

Why are you bringing logs from the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) branch of NPO, of which the forums are completely separate, and try to pin something on NPO? 

 

 

A screenshot specifically involving a t$ member in a PW context and the mention of a potential war against t$ was made on that forum and leaked to me. That makes it my business, whether it's a (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) forum or a PW forum. If you don't like me calling you out on it, perhaps you should not be resorting to such measures.

 

 

You do realize that this post, along with the last one was brought up because of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)? You do realize that while yes, in both this thread and the other (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and P&W have been blended together? You do realize, that you started THIS post, that mixes (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) AND P&W together? Am I guilty of it? Of course I am, as I've posted in both threads that were pertaining to the mixing of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and P&W.  But you are far from having your hands clean, so I ask the same question back to you - Why do you and yours mix this game with planet bob, then try to pin it on NPO while secretly continuing with said mixture? 

 

 

I'm well aware that this post delves into the same area. Two wrongs does not make right. That said, when you wrestle with someone covered in shit, you're bound to get shit on you yourself. At this point, It felt like a necessity to make this thread in order to draw out the debate, instead of continuing the shitcircle of backroom fingerpointing which was going on.

[Roquentin]

With all due respect: The last 5 - 10 times I tried to utilize private channels with those who perceive me as an opponent, I was lied to and doublecrossed in public, showing a blatant disregard for said queries. This necessitated logdumps to clear t$' name and interests at the time. In addition, NPO never notified us of their concerns regarding the chimaera comments when they occurred. Instead you waved it around and ran around like a dog with a bone for cheap PR points (again: You cropped the log to make it seem more pressing than it is. That in itself shows enough).

 

So no, I have no reason to utilize private channels in this one.

 

I've provided you with the opportunity to publically discuss this matter with us. You are free to bring it to our forums and discuss it there in a slightly more private setting, or take it to query, but I will reserve the right to open those talks up should your public statements contradict your private ones.

 

Lastly I will note that had I been so inclined, I could have simply kept this screenshot to myself, drawn my conclusions and posted it at a later time accompanied with a Declaration of War. That would have been indicative of having absolutely no interest in diplomacy. As it stands, I have brought the matter to your attention. It is up to you how you deal with it. The framing is not helping, however.

 

No, that's wrong. We didn't crop it. That's how we got it from Hestia when he asked me what I thought about it. He was on a phone so it just showed that.  Big assumption on your part there. There is also the fact you said that our fate was sealed after and your allies began mobilizing before we did the internal NPO topic. Sorry. Those puzzle pieces don't fit. I got the screencap on the 5th and we did nothing with it until after you backed up Chim's threats. It was simply a short concise version of his threats on the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) forums and yours.

 

 

 

[2016-06-05 16:24:37] <G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/0fl8iV6m/IMG_5384.PNG

[2016-06-05 16:24:48] <G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> What do you think?

[2016-06-05 16:25:23] <Roquentin> i'm sure someone will try

[2016-06-05 16:25:37] <Roquentin> i mean

[2016-06-05 16:25:51] <Roquentin> I haven't really covered up the fact that people see NPO as a threat

[2016-06-05 16:27:33] <Roquentin> he's exaggerating a bit though and he's a hostile so

[2016-06-05 16:27:41] <G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> Yeah

[2016-06-05 16:27:45] <G_Hestia[Dolor_Aliis]> That's why I asked

Edited June 10, 2016 by Roquentin

[MrHat]

 

Yet again: Your alliance consistently brings up chim where t$ is concerned, and literally uses an out-of-context quote from him in an OOC channel to both rally its own members and score PR points in backrooms. Chim's words are directly linked to supposed Syndicate foreign policy and him being govt is heavily implied. All without at any point bringing the quote to t$' attention before you brought it out as a part of your rationale surrounding a (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) DoW. You're playing word semantics right now.

 

 

By that logic, Rose, VE, UPN and various others have threatened The Syndicate, and I have reason to rally around that cry and take defensive measures? If you feel threatened by a single quote from an inactive non-member in an OOC setting, and if you feel that that constitutes enough of a threat to run around with said (cropped) quote, you are not going to make it in this game. The Syndicate has been under far, far more scrutiny in the past, and far worse things have been said about us. 

 

It was not a threat. It was a couple of grunts talking. The channel owner himself has already come out and confirmed as much. You blowing that up is why we are here right now.

 

A screenshot specifically involving a t$ member in a PW context and the mention of a potential war against t$ was made on that forum and leaked to me. That makes it my business, whether it's a (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) forum or a PW forum. If you don't like me calling you out on it, perhaps you should not be resorting to such measures.

 

So you can claim it was in OOC context, in an OOC chan, a few grunts, and the channel owner himself has already come out and confirmed that...and then you use that same screenshot in a PW context to make it your business? 

 

If we're all going to accept that fact that it was OOC and had no relevance, then we can, but you should do the same. 

[Auctor]

You make it sound like it's a bad thing if we go to war.

If this is the kind of hypocrisy it takes for yall to come for us, I welcome it. I was more concerned you guys would find something actually germaine to this world to do it over.

[LordRahl2]

If this is the kind of hypocrisy it takes for yall to come for us, I welcome it. I was more concerned you guys would find something actually germaine to this world to do it over.

So I guess I am a still confused. In the other thread the evidence was presented that cross over was the reason for some war in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways). If true that is a pretty hypocritical statement from you.

 

Actually, I have no idea if you, specifically, are part of that. So I guess "your side".

 

This all seems fairly cut and dry to me despite all the blather blather about who cropped what, etc.

[Roquentin]

So I guess I am a still confused. In the other thread the evidence was presented that cross over was the reason for some war in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways). If true that is a pretty hypocritical statement from you.

 

Actually, I have no idea if you, specifically, are part of that. So I guess "your side".

 

This all seems fairly cut and dry to me despite all the blather blather about who cropped what, etc.

 

I'm not really sure why we keep having to address this. Chim broke terms in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) in late march and agitated against us and he tried to get some members who had left MI6 from a few alliances.That was the real reason. We were not friendly with Steve in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) and if you knew the details in the Steve-me relationship there, you'd realize this. We didn't need anything to happen in P&W because we don't like MI6 and they know that.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Roquentin

[Buorhann]

If this is the kind of hypocrisy it takes for yall to come for us, I welcome it. I was more concerned you guys would find something actually germaine to this world to do it over.

 

 

Look, you're too busy spinning and doing verbal sissy slapping - let's fight.

[Sargun]

Look, you're too busy spinning and doing verbal sissy slapping - let's fight.

 

I'm down.  Are TS and TKR allies?  We can do some Civil War shit if NPO is too afraid to start things.

 

If I'm good for anything it's starting international incidents.

[Auctor]

Look, you're too busy spinning and doing verbal sissy slapping - let's fight.

Come and get it.

[LordRahl2]

I'm not really sure why we keep having to address this. Chim broke terms in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) in late march and agitated against us and he tried to get some members who had left MI6 from a few alliances.That was the real reason. We were not friendly with Steve in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) and if you knew the details in the Steve-me relationship there, you'd realize this. We didn't need anything to happen in P&W because we don't like MI6 and they know that.

I mean that's a good smoke screen and all.

 

If I personally DoWed someone in Rose and said "&#33;@#&#036; WTP" that would be stupid but just me. (WTP is an eRep political party.) If my alliance, or a significant chunk of it, did so it would also be stupid but a clear act of foreign policy.

 

That is analogous to what happened here or there if you will. All obfuscating asside that is it. Open and shut and not hard to wrap your head around.

 

Since you asked: that is why you will keep needing to address it. Because it is so clear to the average reader and you are trying to squirm away from it.

[Roquentin]

I mean that's a good smoke screen and all.

 

If I personally DoWed someone in Rose and said "!@#$ WTP" that would be stupid but just me. (WTP is an eRep political party.) If my alliance, or a significant chunk of it, did so it would also be stupid but a clear act of foreign policy.

 

That is analogous to what happened here or there if you will. All obfuscating asside that is it. Open and shut and not hard to wrap your head around.

 

Since you asked: that is why you will keep needing to address it. Because it is so clear to the average reader and you are trying to squirm away from it.

 

There's plenty of evidence that we discussed it months in advance and prior to Alpha getting hit. You're just being a shill here, frankly.

[LordRahl2]

A shill for whom? I care not a wit about (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) or any alliance there. I can however read. When evidence is presented, and the evidence is clear, and the evidence is not even disputed really then it is super easy for an outside observer to reach a conclusion. Sorry that you dislike all that and I apologize for bringing the issue back to the core issue which you are trying to avoid.

[Ivan the Red]

I mean, our concerns are ultimately defensive, so it's really interesting that Ivan wants to frame it as us initiating somehow. This topic was in bad faith and had tS had any interest in actually discussing issues, they would have been fine talking it out privately.

It is interesting that instead of adressing my statement by directly quoting it, you chose to adress my statement by quoting someone else who spun my word.

 

Of couse, as in no place of my message I stated that your alliance is initiating anything, had you quoted me directly it would have been more difficult for you to build your strawman fallacy.

 

Looks like there is some merit in Charles' assessment of your character as a "play de victim" type.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Roquentin]

A shill for whom? I care not a wit about (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) or any alliance there. I can however read. When evidence is presented, and the evidence is clear, and the evidence is not even disputed really then it is super easy for an outside observer to reach a conclusion. Sorry that you dislike all that and I apologize for bringing the issue back to the core issue which you are trying to avoid.

 

 

You're tied at the hip with tS. You're hardly an outside observer.  Part of the problems with this forum as a diplomacy medium is it's largely an echo chamber.

 

I do not care about NPO recruiting from his parent (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) alliance. Everyone in any game of this kind tries to poach members from other active communities he belongs to.

 

I however care about two things:

 

1) The screens shows that NPO is spreading among his members a narrative about an upcoming conflict, citing as proof a message from a t$ member. This means that NPO is predisposing its members for a war with our sphere.

 

2) The fact that NPO's recruiting policy appears to involve getting many mules into PnW. I expect this to have very funny implications should NPO ever finds itself involved in a real war.

 

Fine if you're going to cry foul because I didn't quote your post directly, here goes: 

 

1.the narrative of an upcoming conflict is because Chim threatened retribution here  on the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) forums and Partisan made a corroborating statement. The dismissal  of this by Manthrax  yesterday consisted of saying that he was in some sort of character so it didn't count despite Partisan outright referencing a forced collision of two worlds and our fate being sealed. Had your government not posted on there and it had been Chim on his own, it wouldn't have been used. I already revealed I didn't use the original screencap convo for any fa purpose until after MI6 was declared on and Chim had made other direct threats with Partisan corroborating them.

 

 

2. It's simply while they try it out at first. If they decide they want to keep playing, we'd give them different builds. It's meant to accommodate super casual players. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Roquentin

[LordRahl2]

I am glad to learn that I am tied at the hip to tS.

 

Very nice attempt, yet again, to change the subject. So, do you deny that a significant numner of members of your or your allies used "For Steve" as the "CB" for a DoW in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways)? There really is little for you to stand on unless you can deny that fact.

[Kurdanak]

Does anyone else find themselves earnestly rethinking their hobbies?

Getting the chance to pay attention again for the day has reaffirmed my current stance on P&W politics.

 

[Roquentin]

I am glad to learn that I am tied at the hip to tS.

 

Very nice attempt, yet again, to change the subject. So, do you deny that a significant numner of members of your or your allies used "For Steve" as the "CB" for a DoW in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways)? There really is little for you to stand on unless you can deny that fact.

 

I don't deny it was used in the DoW, but I deny it was the actual CB and it was something I clarified on the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) forums within hours of it happening. In (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways), there have been plenty of lulz DoWs without reference to the CB.  There were even people who are allied to tS here using  For Steve in their DoWs as a non-serious thing.  http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/129095-new-sith-order-announcement/

 

 

----

 

Additionally, for the record the screenshot posted in the OP lacks a date, but it was after tS allies began mobilizing, which was cause for alarm.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Roquentin

[LordRahl2]

I don't deny it was used in the DoW, but I deny it was the actual CB and it was something I clarified on the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) forums within hours of it happening. In (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways), there have been plenty of lulz DoWs without reference to the CB.  There were even people who are allied to tS here using  For Steve in their DoWs as a non-serious thing.  http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/129095-new-sith-order-announcement/

 

 

----

 

Additionally, for the record the screenshot posted in the OP lacks a date, but it was after tS allies began mobilizing, which was cause for alarm.

Did you mean to link me to your clarification?

[Roquentin]

Did you mean to link me to your clarification?

 

No, I can do that too, but I meant to link you to a Pantheon member here using For Steve.

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/129092-a-non-grata-rp-production/&page=3#comment-3461437 here's my post.

[Ivan the Red]

I mean, our concerns are ultimately defensive, so it's really interesting that Ivan wants to frame it as us initiating somehow. This topic was in bad faith and had tS had any interest in actually discussing issues, they would have been fine talking it out privately.

You're tied at the hip with tS. You're hardly an outside observer. Part of the problems with this forum as a diplomacy medium is it's largely an echo chamber.

 

 

Fine if you're going to cry foul because I didn't quote your post directly, here goes:

 

1.the narrative of an upcoming conflict is because Chim threatened retribution here on the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) forums and Partisan made a corroborating statement. The dismissal of this by Manthrax yesterday consisted of saying that he was in some sort of character so it didn't count despite Partisan outright referencing a forced collision of two worlds and our fate being sealed. Had your government not posted on there and it had been Chim on his own, it wouldn't have been used. I already revealed I didn't use the original screencap convo for any fa purpose until after MI6 was declared on and Chim had made other direct threats with Partisan corroborating them.

 

2. It's simply while they try it out at first. If they decide they want to keep playing, we'd give them different builds. It's meant to accommodate super casual players.

Glad to see you have dropped your accusation on me framing your alliance as initiating anything.

 

Regarding my message. You somehow claim your concerns are defensive. As the screenshot shows, your alliance seems to be spreading a narrative of opposition to our sphere. The fact that this opposition may be passive (defensive) or active (agressive) doesn't makes the fact any less interesting to me.

 

It would be silly of me to comment on Partisan's and Manthrax's statements or interpretations of, as they are here to coment about them themselves. But beyond the mutual blaming, the relevant question is if there is a willingness to change this situation in which you perceive us as as hostile.

 

About the second statement, I don't think that having so many mules is going to play you well in a war. Just that. When your alliance comes out of age, as an operative of t$ Economy Department I'm looking forward to assess how well that 100% taxes strategy payed out.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Ivan the Red