Adding Colonies to a Nation

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

So how about for every 10,000 Infrastructure plus 10,000 Land a nation has, they gain a colony? In game mechanics, it would more accurately be described as a Colony slot, like a National Project slot except with a Land requirement thrown in.

 

Perhaps there would be some sort of military requirement, too, such as a minimum military presence that has to be maintained in said colony to keep it, some sort of war that has to be fought to gain control of it, etc.

 

And the colonies could each have an approval rating, as well. If there's a low approval rating, more military is required and the colony will cost you more (due to requiring more military and propaganda production costs), so it's to your advantage to keep their bellies full and the trains running on time, so to speak. If approval rating reaches zero, you could lose control of the colony, via revolution, and only regain it again by paying twice what you'd paid to get it in the first place (which means at that point, it might be cheaper to just release it and start all over again).

 

The colony's ability to produce resources would be less than the main nation's, but it would include all local resources. For instance, I really wish I had a colony in a part of the world that produces bauxite right now. 

 

You'd get to choose where to put your colony and, if you no longer want that colony, it can be released so that you can put another colony in that colony slot. It would cost a certain amount of money and/or military to gain a colony and you'd only be able to acquire one every five days (just an example; can be longer if desired). Maybe you'd only get to have a colony after your nation's been around for at least 30 days in addition to the Land/Infra requirements.

 

Colony slots would work similar to Project slots in that you'd need to keep gaining Infrastructure and Land to gain slots, but like Projects you'd get to keep them even if your Infra/Land got destroyed (this is presuming at some point war will include land destruction) below the point required to have that slot.

 

Anyway, there's a lot that could be done with this down the line if it's successful, such as colony expansion, conscription of locals into military service for a discounted rate, but just a basic colony with resource production could start us off.

 

Re: colony expansion: It would start with only military, power, and resource slots, but could expand into manufacturing, civil, and commerce with money and time invested in a particular colony. Military slots would be only for maintaining order locally in that particular colony, those forces couldn't be mobilized into the offensive or defensive wars your nation fights, due to them being in a different location. The downside is that you'd have to start over from scratch if you ever released your colony and built a new one in its stead.

 

One last thing: You would get to name your colonies, just like you get to name your cities.

 

UPDATE:

 

A possible military use for a colony would be that it could be used as a launching pad for warfare against an enemy nation located in a different part of the world from your own. For instance, if you're located in Asia, for each colony located in Australia, you get an offensive bonus against nations in Australia.

 

The counter against colonies being used in war would be to use your Navy to blockade them, as therefore no resources/soldiers/etc. can get out. And of course, when your nation is blockaded, you wouldn't be able to receive any of the resources/income/etc. that your colonies would be generating for you. It makes the situation of a national blockade a little more interesting.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Ekaterina Kalmyk

[Fistandantilus]

I love this!

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

Thanks, Fist!  (And Prezyan, for the Like.)

Edited May 23, 2016 by Ekaterina Kalmyk

[Nadir Aminu]

The only issue is that trade would decrease on the global market because they produce a certain resource themselves now. But, this could be solved by in the resource production, you can decrease the amount produced by a lot less, or increase the cost of the improvement by a lot or make the upkeep extremely expensive.

Other than that, its a neat idea.

[Godfrey]

Colonies could definitely be an interesting mechanic to add to the game. I'd be interested to see more ideas on what a colony could offer your nation after it was built.

[Donald Trump]

this ruins specialization through tradeth and n'rf marketeth

 

maketh t so colony has't to beest in thy parteth of w'rld? 'r marketeth and alliance planning dynamic beest ruin'd

 

this game requires alliance nations to w'rk togeth'r to prosp'r. allowing this option firstly increaseth larg'r nation pow'r giving m're to those folk and very much n'rfs the marketeth. as larg'r nations, the ones n'rmally asking f'r resources wonneth't beest th're

 

some nations art completely reliant on the marketeth at lo levels. this changeth shall screweth those folk ov'r! and did hurt game ov'rall f'r the 1%. please do not add. better suggestion can be suggested and added

Edited May 23, 2016 by Muhammad

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

The only issue is that trade would decrease on the global market because they produce a certain resource themselves now. But, this could be solved by in the resource production, you can decrease the amount produced by a lot less, or increase the cost of the improvement by a lot or make the upkeep extremely expensive.

Other than that, its a neat idea.

 

The one downside to all of this would definitely be a possible effect on the global market, as you and Muhammad point out, but I'd definitely expect a colony to produce less than you could get from an ordinary city before this got implemented anyhow. And it would have to be decided whether colonies benefit from National Projects that increase production, too. I'm thinking not, since they're not actually a part of the main Nation that rules them. In that way, and the ways you suggest, the effects on the global market could be minimized in all but the most extreme circumstances, like if someone let their colony produce resources for a year and then dumped that all on the market at once, heh. But if they're going to wait a year to try to destabilize the global market anyhow, it's really not more than could be done by any nation that produces that resource normally anyhow.

 

 

Colonies could definitely be an interesting mechanic to add to the game. I'd be interested to see more ideas on what a colony could offer your nation after it was built.

 

Maybe they could be used as a launching platform for wars against nations located in that particular area, such as if you're in Asia and your enemy is in Australia, you get some sort of offensive bonus (but obviously not a defensive bonus).

 

Of course, this means blockading someone's colony would cut off all aid from that colony, negating any possible offensive bonus. Hmm, a new purpose for Ships...

Edited May 23, 2016 by Ekaterina Kalmyk

[Filthy Fifths]

So we have a quite unbalanced game as it is... and you want to make it more complex and further unbalanced? 

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

...Yes?

 

Though I could see the argument of "Fix the game before you add new stuff!" ... it's the same argument that's made for every MMORPG I've ever played.

 

But honestly, I just like new stuff to tinker with while I'm waiting for any fixes/rebalancing that might come along.

[NeXaXeN]

I like the idea of colonies as a sort of post-Project project for those nations who've already built all the available Projects. Maybe make a prerequisite for colonies being that you have built all the available Projects as only large nations could support a colony to start with.

 

You could build different colonies for different purposes:

a) A Resource colony would give you the mines (wells) worth of the max available for one city. Example: An OIL colony would give you resources equal to the output of 6 oil wells, since that's the max a city can make.

a MILITARY colony could increase the build cap on a specific class of troop. Example: A Foreign Air Base would increase your airplane cap by 5 air bases worth of planes, as that's the max a city could produce.

c) etc.

 

Finally, I don't want to sidestep the world market--colonies should be a back-up failsafe for getting resourcing when alliances power-pinch resources with inflated prices and market cornering. As such, I think that each colony should have a daily colony upkeep above and beyond normal production buildings (the cost of protecting, administering, and shipping in the goods to the motherland).

 

 

 

.

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

Those are definitely some good ideas, NeX.

 

I definitely think upkeep should be greater than those of normal resource production and specializing colonies could be interesting, too.

[Ole]

First off i love this sugestion, good idea! and i have some thoughts on how you could do it that might be fair and balanced. Atlest i think they are, granted im a top tier nation and i fight alot so i have bias.

 

But before that, to all the (insert medium insult) who talk about destorying or messing with the market. The market is terrible as is, it is broken, the prices make wars cripling, teh hell are you on about???

 

How about you can only recive raw res from the colony not send it? so if you can make say Oil and lead you can make gas and muni but not steel, and so forth. 

 

And you should be able to buy land in it so you can make food, but no infra since working it into the warsystem might be a pain. 

 

Also sugested unlock prices : 

 

10m

20m

40m 

 

i think id pay that (atleast the first 2 for more res production) 

[Dimitri Valko]

The only issue is that trade would decrease on the global market because they produce a certain resource themselves now. But, this could be solved by in the resource production, you can decrease the amount produced by a lot less, or increase the cost of the improvement by a lot or make the upkeep extremely expensive.

Other than that, its a neat idea.

 

That's not really a problem. That's one of the main reasons why colonies are established in the first place, so that nations do not need to depend on rival countries for resources.

[Andrezj Kolarov]

I suggested something a bit similar:

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12252-suggestion-foreign-territory/

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

First off i love this sugestion, good idea! and i have some thoughts on how you could do it that might be fair and balanced. Atlest i think they are, granted im a top tier nation and i fight alot so i have bias.

 

But before that, to all the (insert medium insult) who talk about destorying or messing with the market. The market is terrible as is, it is broken, the prices make wars cripling, teh hell are you on about???

 

How about you can only recive raw res from the colony not send it? so if you can make say Oil and lead you can make gas and muni but not steel, and so forth. 

 

And you should be able to buy land in it so you can make food, but no infra since working it into the warsystem might be a pain. 

 

Also sugested unlock prices : 

 

10m

20m

40m 

 

i think id pay that (atleast the first 2 for more res production) 

 

Thanks, glad you like it!

 

I suppose if someone was really afraid of the effects on the global market, the "resources" produced could only affect the nation they're producing them for and not be able to be traded on the global market. I don't think colonial raw resource production would be large enough to threaten international trade, though. As Ole said, any war sends prices through the roof as it is, and this would afford larger nations who invest in colonies the chance to have that sting mitigated a bit.

 

Those prices definitely sound about right to me. Most people might just buy one or two, but those who really want more colonies than that can shell out the big bucks (and if someone hits the theoretical cap on cities some day, it'll give them something else to buy). Though it makes me think Manifest Destiny should offer a 5% discount on new colonies in addition to the current 5% discount on new cities.

 

As for buying land in colonies, but not infrastructure, I agree on the basic principle, but it may need to be renamed somehow to fit into the theme of military might leading to colonial expansion. So the thing I said earlier might be better termed "colonial development" (going from mere raw resource production to a more advanced colony) and "colonial expansion" would be for increasing the physical size of your colony a.k.a. Land.

 

Or those two things get rolled into one with a simple Level system. Such as a Level 1 colony can only produce so much on their land (including food) and a Level 2 colony would be bigger, therefore allowing for slightly more resource production. Level 5 could be the first manufacturing slot for the colony, Level 10 could be commerce-related money-generating slots (like a supermarket or mall), etc.

 

In any case, the basic idea is that you'd start with a basic small colony and you'd want it to become bigger to be more useful to you. The actual mechanics of how you'd go about expanding your colonies might work differently from nation expansion via cities. As in, it might be simpler, with just a land stat and not an infrastructure stat.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Ekaterina Kalmyk

[Fistandantilus]

I like the level system.

 

Here’s a draft I just put togethe!r:

Each colony gets a custom name and you get to select a type. Each level represents the size of the city and the size of the resource industry.

 

Colony Cost’s:

1^st colony: 25m

2^nd colony: 50m

3^rd Colony: 100m

4rth Colony: 200m

5^th Colony: 400m

6^th Colony: 800m

7^th Colony: 1.6B

 

Colony levels:

Level 1: Free

Level 2: 5m

Level 3: 50m

Level 4: 100m

 

Colony Bonuses: Besides the resource bonuses, a Level 1 colony will give a 1% net income bonus due to trade/commerce. Each level of a colony will add an additional .25% except level 4, level 4 will be a .5%(So a net total of 2% with all upgrades). This help justifies the larger cost and gives reason to upgrade them without making resource production to high to justify the cost.

Colony types:

Iron Mining Colony, Coal Mining Colony, Bauxite mining Colony, Oil drilling Colony, Lead Mining Colony, Agriculture Colony.

Resources:

 

 

 

Level 1 Oil/Coal/Lead colony:

50 resource per day

 

Level 2 Oil/Coal/Lead colony:

100 resource per day

 

Level 3 Oil/Coal/Lead colony:

150 resource per day

 

Level 4 Oil/Coal/Lead colony:

200 resource per day

 

Level 1 Bauxite/Iron Colony

25 resource per day

 

Level 2 Bauxite/Iron Colony

50 resource per day

 

Level 3 Bauxite/Iron Colony

75 resource per day

 

Level 4 Bauxite/Iron Colony

100 resource per day

 

Level 1 Food Colony

250 food per day

Level 2 Food Colony

500 food per day

Level 3 Food Colony

750 food per day

Level 4 Food Colony

1000 food per day

 

 

I just brainstormed these numbers, I can do the math and come up with numbers based on a reasonable Rate of Return for nations of different sizes and market prices if sheepy wants!

Edited May 24, 2016 by Fistandantilus

[Don Juan]

This is probably one of the better and well thought out colony proposals for the game so far. I like the idea, but there'd have to be balancing, I like the idea of a cost for a colony in return for resources. And it reflects how colonies were money sinks for occupying/imperial powers with having to divert manpower to keep a local populace subservient etc. Not that this game needs excessive realism, but this is one of those situations where a possible mechanic just lines up nicely.

 

I also like the idea that this would add a new purpose for ships, considering how under-used they are in the war meta at the moment. So there's a lot of merit and potential for this proposal, I think.

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

Yay, numbers!

 

And just so we're not diving too deeply into the monetary costs of things without mentioning the military costs, I'll reiterate that you could be required to win a certain battle using your nation's military to colonize a particular area, too.

 

Then there could be a larger battle for your second colony, etc. which would -- given the current military caps per city -- in itself control how quickly you could add colonies to your nation. (Just in case there's a concern of adding too many colonies to the game too quickly.)

 

Thanks, Don Juan! There would definitely have to be a lot of though given to proper balancing, but that's more of an opportunity than a burden. And there's already been some good thoughts on that from folks in this thread. 

[Magnanimus]

Colonies should have their own economy, military and score. A nation within the score range of a colony can specifically target the colony and not require to attack the nation directly.

This would require nations to keep military to protect their colonies. There should be an option to divert the nations standing enemy to the colony at a cost and it should also take time for them to reach the colony. Their should be a cap on that too.

[Jodo]

This gets shot down every time it's suggested. Go back and find out why.

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

Colonies should have their own economy, military and score. A nation within the score range of a colony can specifically target the colony and not require to attack the nation directly.

This would require nations to keep military to protect their colonies. There should be an option to divert the nations standing enemy to the colony at a cost and it should also take time for them to reach the colony. Their should be a cap on that too.

 

Sounds about right. Of course, this means someone could potentially target someone else's colonies just to screw with them, hah. Definitely might make someone think twice about colonizing an area if they can't afford to defend it, though! 

 

Thinking on a potential consequence of what you said, however: Colonies shouldn't be allowed to be destroyed completely by an enemy nation; maybe just devastating the colony's land, economic, and military. Even if it's just a burning pile of rubble, that colony should only have to be "re-purchased" if you yourself "release" (delete) it. Both Colonies (as envisioned here) and National Projects represent a huge initial investment cost in the multi-millions, after all.

 

 

This gets shot down every time it's suggested. Go back and find out why.

 

Before posting this topic, I went all the way back to November 2015 and didn't see any mentions of colony or colonies; I also skimmed the Approved/Rejected suggestions topic and didn't see anything there, leading me to believe it was worth giving this a shot.

 

I've now gone back all the way to January 2015 and found four topics talking about "colony" or "colonies":

 

Long answer:

 

 

 

The first topic says we should be allowed to colonize small nations via various methods including giving them small pox. My suggestion is nothing like that and of course I'd reject outright the idea that someone else's nation should be able to be controlled outright by another player.

 

The second topic is more similar to my idea, where -- like National Projects -- there is an infrastructure requirement. Unlike my idea, the infrastructure requirement is only 5000 and it doesn't include a Land component. Could be because back in June 2015 it was harder to imagine nations with 10k Infra/Land. This suggestion even includes military defense of said colony, like my idea. The proposed cost per colony is only two million, whereas in this suggestion the lowest potential price tag is 10m. Overall, I'd say it was rejected because there weren't enough restrictions/limitations suggested and costs were too low.

 

The third topic describes colonies as a city upgrade, where you'd convert a regular new city into a colony on another continent. There's no military component to this at all, unlike the suggestion in this topic I just started. Since this is really a topic about city upgrades/conversions, any rejection of it has more to do with not wanting to screw with the way cities are currently set up and less to do with colonies as a concept.

 

The fourth topic suggests a single colony as a National Project with a cost of 5m as opposed to the 10m minimum suggested here. There would be no daily upkeep required in a National Project, neither in terms of military nor monetary costs, no need to defend said colony, limited to one colony per nation, AND I'd assume that resource production rate would be equal to that of a nation's usual resource production, etc. so it's really not like my suggestion at all. Overall, there wouldn't really be any limitations/restrictions once you paid the 5m, so I can see that would lead to rejection.

 

 

 

Short answer: because no one wanted to potentially screw with the global market / economic system that's in place. But we've already discussed that in this topic. Besides the fact that the last month or so has proved that the global market is screwy enough as it is (lol Avg Food Price graph as just one example), I think a high cost of initial investment (and 10k Infra/Land req.), daily upkeep costs exceeding those of a nation's usual resource production, military defense of colonies needed, and lower resource production rate in a colony as opposed to a nation would minimize any negative impact. It would ensure that not everyone would have a colony and that fewer still would have greater than two colonies.

 

Anyhow, I think a lot of good ideas have been put forth by folks this time around, to the point where they should be seriously considered.

[Samdoo]

This looks like a reward for larger peaceful nations ONLY.  This I'm assuming would not be destroy able, so yes it would be best to classify this as a " national project" makes the conversation clearer too. Not putting this stipulation in would simply be just giving larger nations FREE power.(projects already do this)  Lets assume this project  at current for just 1 resource(3 mines) in a different country and max production would BEAT nearly every manufacturing project.  A similar example of larger nation project  would be the ITC project, assuming resources don't change since you say this wouldn't have an impact on the global economy, This would be cheaper and a safer version of an ITC, with no penalty for going to war, and a faster ROI by about a year. ANY sort of military influence pretty much instantly adds a 10-20 million price tag, (looking at other military related projects.) Again the price to benefit of this suggestion is way off. 

 

The economic impact would be turmoil for younger nations. Ideally the economy would work small nations produce raw, mid sized nations buy raws and sell manufactured goods. Larger nations purchase manufactured goods for war. This ideal is already fairly far off, Currently the ideal would be small and mid-size nations produce manufactured goods, Larger nations produce raw and manufactured resources and then buy manufactured resources. Eventually enough war will happen where Larger nations quantities would drop to make it profitable for smaller nations to sell raw resources. This addition wouldn't allow the economy to ever move back to the ideal. This would completely limit out new nations from entering the game and not promoting growth. since mid and large nations would fill in the gap of smaller nations. with how much MORE impactful larger nations would become. 

 

Your suggestion would be best to explain as a national project. Off shore- colony : allows access to 1 resource that is not native on your continent.( max 3 mines)  If at war with a nation on the same continent as your colony, you receive a 10% boost in combat. Cost 60 mill, 3000 land (not sure how to make a project cost land but this would be a cool feature to this one) and 200,000 food.  the max 3 mines would stop every colony from being oil/coal based purely on number of improvements you could make. This as well would bring in continent favoritism as continents with a weakness would now lose that. 

 

Slightly better approach to the idea but on the fact alone of creating continents having higher power really kills this idea alone. 

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

It does seem like it would be a reward for being both large and peaceful, yes. I hadn't thought of it that way because I mostly play this game peacefully myself.

 

However, it wouldn't be as "free" as National Projects are, as there would be a daily upkeep cost, in addition to the initial cost in money and/or military in acquiring the colony in the first place.

 

As for it negatively impacting small//young nations, that's what alliances are for: to offer any financial support smaller nations need, since their daily income is not likely to be large enough for them to grow as quickly as they could, with or without the global market's help.

 

And I don't think colonies would affect the global market much. There's always going to be people selling goods and buying goods, that's the beauty of war and capitalism.

 

So I disagree that it's better to think of this in terms of a National Project. A colony (as theorized in this topic) would impact both the nation holding it and the game differently than a National Project would. Though I'll admit I did see some similarities when I was first coming up with the idea, hence "Colony Slot" being a bit like "National Project Slot," heh.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Ekaterina Kalmyk

[vonnorman]

I like the idea of a colony forcing a larger nation to fight off smaller ambitious nations. Something like a set amount of colonies that we can all fight over to control and reap the benefits of.. you know, to curb the boredom?

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

I like the idea of a colony forcing a larger nation to fight off smaller ambitious nations. Something like a set amount of colonies that we can all fight over to control and reap the benefits of.. you know, to curb the boredom?

 

I thought about that as a possibility, too, where Colonies would function more like National Treasures than National Projects, except with their own raw resources/daily income boost. Could be interesting. Perhaps even with some alliance-wide benefit like the National Treasures have, like a boost to Bauxite production if someone in the alliance has a bauxite-rich colony.