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Underground, the future of warfare?


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During WWI all sides used "sappers" to dig underground to the enemy trench line or fortifications, where they would usually blow up some explosives to destroy the fortification and/or allow soldiers to go through the tunnel behind the enemy lines. I believe this was also used in specific instances in the American Civil War and probably before that too. The widespread introduction of tanks and aircraft largely made this tactic redundant, but tunnels were still used to great effect by the Vietcong and NVA in the Vietnam War.

 

However recently it has begun emerging again, Hamas militants in Gaza and Israel used tunnels to go under Israeli lines and border walls and get within range of cities to fire their home-made rockets, or even tunnel even further so the militants could come out of the tunnels and attack Israeli towns directly. Israel has responded by trying to collapse the tunnels by bombing the entrances, but even if they do collapse an entrance the tunnelers can still have dozens of alternate entrances to the main tunnels.

 

In more high-tech examples, Iran has built many tunnels deep underground, these tunnels are made with concrete and steel, making collapsing them almost impossible, they are also buried much deeper underground, owing to the fact that they are dug using modern machines like excavators rather than shovels. These tunnels are used to hide, protect and even transport Iran's stockpiles of ballistic missiles, making it very difficult for such stockpiles to be targeted by aircraft. They could also be used as makeshift silos, launching the missiles from underground. Tunnels aren't just a tool of missiles though, they could become the ultimate military tool, if a nation had a huge network of concrete tunnels deep underground (and thus out of reach of aircraft), they could quickly transport their military forces via (underground highways) around the country while being immune to airstrikes, they could even appear behind enemy lines. It would also be much cheaper, owing to modern drilling techniques which are normally used for mining.

 

For nations like the US whose military strength relies on air superiority, this could be a massive blow. It has even been reported that China has begun constructing tunnels and underground storage facilities, primarily for missiles.

Edited by Andrezj Kolarov
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If tunnels are the future then it's already here because it's being used in almost every global conflict happening at the moment. From Somalia to Chenchneya tunnels have/are being used as shelters, escape routes, supply routes, and (in the case of Syria) as a way blow up enemy fortifications. Here's a video on tunnel bombs (which have proven very effective for the Syrian rebels):

 

 

Probably the biggest one ever detonated...

 

Edited by Moreau III

Signed by Sultan Moreau

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I'd also point out that the most powerful bunker busting bomb in the world, the US Air Force's Massive Ordnance Penetrator, can only penetrate 61 meters underground, and it costs $314 million USD per bomb.

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I'd also point out that the most powerful bunker busting bomb in the world, the US Air Force's Massive Ordnance Penetrator, can only penetrate 61 meters underground, and it costs $314 million USD per bomb.

Yes and an underground base built underneath a mountain can only be destroyed by a direct nuclear strike. So Tunnels are very important for insurgent groups, rebels, and nation's lacking air superiority.

Signed by Sultan Moreau

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This got me thinking.....why not make it a "National Project"? Call it something like "Underground Ballistic Tunnel System". It would have to cost quite a bit of steel, alum and I'm sure other things with a cost of say.....$50M+. The advantage it would give you would be your nation's ground troops could ignore the penalties that result from an opponent having air superiority against you.

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You don't win a war hiding in tunnels, they're only any use when the country has already been occupied, in which case your only hope is to force a stalemate by making the war to expensive to be worth continuing. I love it when people say that vietnam won the war. Normally when you win a war, your enemy doesn't emerge with zero infrastructure damage whilst your country is reduces to ashes and you have to live in a tiny mud tunnel to survive.

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just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong

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You don't win a war hiding in tunnels, they're only any use when the country has already been occupied, in which case your only hope is to force a stalemate by making the war to expensive to be worth continuing. I love it when people say that vietnam won the war. Normally when you win a war, your enemy doesn't emerge with zero infrastructure damage whilst your country is reduces to ashes and you have to live in a tiny mud tunnel to survive.

It's not just guerilla warfare, it also could be used to transport tanks and trucks underground to where they are needed (avoiding using a highway where they are vulnerable to airstrikes), also it could be used for anti-air defense. Behold my leet ms-paint skillz:

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Not practical, first of all if your tunnel has entrances straight enough for a missile to fly out, they're straight enough for bombs to go down. Secondly it's one thing having a few mud tunnels a few metres underground. It's another constructing whole road networks underground. For reference, the crossrail tunnel currently being built in the UK to house a new underground line is just 13 miles long and cost £15 billion and took 7/8 years to build

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Priest of Dio

just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong

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Digging tunnels in wars has been done much further back then WW2 or the American Civil War. The Romans, Chinese, Japanese, and more have all used such tactics before those periods. It was among a guerrilla tactic also a siege tactic but not always a successful one as the defenders could simply dig their own tunnels and cause the attacker's tunnels to collapse (killing all the present attackers naturally).

 

Personally while nice I'd not overstate their usefulness. 

Edited by Rozalia
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You don't win a war hiding in tunnels, they're only any use when the country has already been occupied, in which case your only hope is to force a stalemate by making the war to expensive to be worth continuing.

Secrete underground bunkers are still a good place to...

 

1) Conduct command and control.

 

2) Hide high value targets.

 

3) Store weapons/supplies/money.

 

And, secrete tunnels are still good...

 

1) Escape routes.

 

2) Backup supply lines (in case of siege).

 

3) For concealing troop movement (I'm talking infantry not tanks).

 

Even if the country is not yet occupied.

Signed by Sultan Moreau

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Secrete underground bunkers are still a good place to...

 

1) Conduct command and control.

 

2) Hide high value targets.

 

3) Store weapons/supplies/money.

 

And, secrete tunnels are still good...

 

1) Escape routes.

 

2) Backup supply lines (in case of siege).

 

3) For concealing troop movement (I'm talking infantry not tanks).

 

Even if the country is not yet occupied.

The first two yes. The third one, not really. You don't need to store weapons or supplies in a big hole in the ground, if you lose air control and your military bases get bombed, you've already lost. 

 

Escape routes or just routes to a C&C fair enough, though it's worth noting that most C&C or whatever aren't in bunkers deep underground but are just in ordinary buildings. 

 

Backup supply lines? For what? What do you mean by a siege? We're past the age where you have a siege really. Tunnels aka the ones hamas builds are built because they have zero ground control, in other words they're for people who have lost air control already and are already beaten conventionally.

 

How many infantry do you think you can fit in a tunnel? I mean the only times that sort of thing would be useful would be to pass a super fortified point - like the Korean DMZ. Most countries don't have such a point so it's overkill. With air support you just move infantry overland in APCs.

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just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong

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Not practical, first of all if your tunnel has entrances straight enough for a missile to fly out, they're straight enough for bombs to go down. Secondly it's one thing having a few mud tunnels a few metres underground. It's another constructing whole road networks underground. For reference, the crossrail tunnel currently being built in the UK to house a new underground line is just 13 miles long and cost £15 billion and took 7/8 years to build

That was just an example, you don't literally need to build subways, you can just build tunnels the same way mines are made, and only make concrete subway-like tunnels for things of high military value, i.e.:

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Yes and an underground base built underneath a mountain can only be destroyed by a direct nuclear strike. So Tunnels are very important for insurgent groups, rebels, and nation's lacking air superiority.

Obviously you never met the Daisy Cutters being used in Afghanistan to take out not only forests but also mountains. They also knock out air supplies inside caves as well, leaving the victims without an air supply for 10-15 minutes.

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Modern day tunnel boring is logistically expensive as all hell. I just can't see it working against an opponent who can counter such a strategy with an equal or less economic investment. it works when the economies can't compare or that it's not inflicting enough damage to act on it.

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Backup supply lines? For what? What do you mean by a siege? We're past the age where you have a siege really. Tunnels aka the ones hamas builds are built because they have zero ground control, in other words they're for people who have lost air control already and are already beaten conventionally.

lol wut? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khe_Sanh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phnom_Penh#History

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Building things or putting them deep underground has some utility.  Having hardened targets is a thing today.  The utility is nowhere near what some of the posters here are suggesting though.

 

Tunnels are not revolutionary or something.

 

And no you cannot shoot a SAM out of a tunnel buried hundreds of meters within the earth despite your MS paint skilz, which are quite nice actually.

You can put a mobile SAM in a tunnel to protect it when not in use.  You can harden several components of a fixed SAM site as well.

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Building things or putting them deep underground has some utility.  Having hardened targets is a thing today.  The utility is nowhere near what some of the posters here are suggesting though.

Did the US ever sell bunker busters to Israel? I remember hearing about Netanyahu wanting some, but never heard of the outcome. 

 

Yes, I'm too lazy to Google it. 

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Yeah, they bought thousands of bunker busters. No, we didn't sell them the MOP system that would be necessary to destroy Iranian nuclear targets. Israel doesn't have the aircraft capable of delivering the bomb. And, it's a violation of START to transfer such an aircraft.

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