Ragnarok Invades Orbis

[Diomedes]

Yeah, yeah, you just happened to have picked a winged odal for your flag, because vikings. Jog on you nazi prick, you fool no one.

Sabcat, you have proven that you have no clue what you are talking about. Your comments are irrelevant and have no basis of fact. But, are used to that!

 

Now go troll somewhere else.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Diomedes

[Odin]

Diomedes, you're stealing my groupies here. 

[Diomedes]

Diomedes, you're stealing my groupies here. 

Odin:

 

There is enough groupies for all of us. Just think it makes for a better party

[Big Brother]

For me it's not an odd question to ask. If our alliance was using an Al Qaida symbol or an Daesh symbol I'd ask them what their reason behind it is. If they were using far too many symbols or references towards a certain group I'd assume that's what they authentically are or want to RP.

 

I wanted to give this new alliance a benefit of the doubt by asking rather than making assumptions. Any alliance should expect questions about their symbols, history and relationships. It's just natural to get to know them better and get to know them. It's up to them how they answer the questions.

 

In my personal opinion this alliance has been rather bad at answering any question whatsoever.

 

I'm sorry but using an Odal rune is not anywhere near the same as using an Al Qaida symbol or a Daesh symbol. Odal runes were used hundreds upon hundreds of years before the Nazis even existed and just because some Nazis used it doesn't mean we should ignore the original meaning and use of the symbol. If anything, the original use and meaning should be appreciated while its use by Nazis should be condemned (which isn't what's happening in this case). As someone living in Sweden, I'd expect you to be familiar with runes and their history.

 

Yeah, yeah, you just happened to have picked a winged odal for your flag, because vikings. Jog on you nazi prick, you fool no one.

 

And again, using an Odal rune does not mean you're a Nazi. I hate national socialism and fascism as much as any of you but that's simply inaccurate slander brought on by heedless fervor. By attempting to paint the use of Odal runes as something "Nazi", you are contributing to the corruption and theft of ancient culture by Nazism all the while robbing millions of people of their right to appreciate their own history, history that occurred more than a thousand years ago and has nothing to do with Nazism whatsoever.

 

There are too many actual Nazis and far-right extremists in the world for you to focus your.. anger, frustration or whatever it is you're trying to do towards people who don't actually fit into those categories.

[Hereno]

odin literally posted on the first page of this thread going "oh man i bet you're gonna get a lot of shit for using that"

 

your response was to take a card from donald trump and go "lol you're an idiot and everything you say is wrong"

 

like this might work on dumb people but when you're giving the gives-everyone-a-chance person a hard time for just asking you to explain yourselves and the best answer you can give is "we didn't know it had any symbolism we just found it somewhere honest", welll..... if that's the case why not just change it now that you know it's nazi shit?

 

you can ignore reality but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. even ayn rand agrees with me. you're !@#$ed m8

[Hereno]

I'm sorry but using an Odal rune is not anywhere near the same as using an Al Qaida symbol or a Daesh symbol. Odal runes were used hundreds upon hundreds of years before the Nazis even existed and just because some Nazis used it doesn't mean we should ignore the original meaning and use of the symbol. If anything, the original use and meaning should be appreciated while its use by Nazis should be condemned (which isn't what's happening in this case). As someone living in Sweden, I'd expect you to be familiar with runes and their history.

 

 

And again, using an Odal rune does not mean you're a Nazi. I hate national socialism and fascism as much as any of you but that's simply inaccurate slander brought on by heedless fervor. By attempting to paint the use of Odal runes as something "Nazi", you are contributing to the corruption and theft of ancient culture by Nazism all the while robbing millions of people of their right to appreciate their own history, history that occurred more than a thousand years ago and has nothing to do with Nazism whatsoever.

 

There are too many actual Nazis and far-right extremists in the world for you to focus your.. anger, frustration or whatever it is you're trying to do towards people who don't actually fit into those categories.

you want things to be one way, but they're the other way

 

sooner or later you'll figure it out

[sakata exchange]

The fact that this uses Enjin and doesn't have a Hoo is a thumbs down for me.

is Hoo playing here?

[Big Brother]

you want things to be one way, but they're the other way

 

sooner or later you'll figure it out

 

I don't want things to be one way or another and I have no power over the fabric of reality even if I did. I observe what "way" things are and act accordingly. Odal runes are not Nazi symbols and it's inaccurate to state that anyone that chooses to use that symbol is a Nazi.

[Hereno]

I don't want things to be one way or another and I have no power over the fabric of reality even if I did. I observe what "way" things are and act accordingly. Odal runes are not Nazi symbols and it's inaccurate to state that anyone that chooses to use that symbol is a Nazi.

swastikas are not purely nazi symbols that are only used by nazis, but i'm pretty sure if some dude with a stupid moustache walked into your town waving one around in his jackboots you'd make the connection

 

i get that you're in the syndicate and thus probably feel the need to elawyer for your wrong opinion, but go away, because you're wrong and i don't care about your browser game alliance's "PR"

[Big Brother]

swastikas are not purely nazi symbols that are only used by nazis, but i'm pretty sure if some dude with a stupid moustache walked into your town waving one around in his jackboots you'd make the connection

 

i get that you're in the syndicate and thus probably feel the need to elawyer for your wrong opinion, but go away, because you're wrong and i don't care about your browser game alliance's "PR"

 

And have you seen some dude with "a stupid moustache walked into your town waving one around in his jackboots" in this thread? Or anything indicating that Ragnarok are actually Nazis that would justify claiming that they use the Odal rune with the same intent as Nazis? Because I haven't. The Odal rune is not an equivalent to the Swastika. The Nazis liked to appropriate the imagery and symbolism of other people and cultures and you're basically letting them twist and corrupt these symbols for the benefit of themselves, you're accepting it, something I will not do.

 

My membership in The Syndicate has nothing to do with my opinions and as much as you'd like to think I'm wrong, I'm quite certain I've studied these symbols and their meanings more than you have (as they're an important part of my nation's history and culture). If you actually knew what you're talking about, you wouldn't have dismissed my opinion as incorrect and would keep your mind open enough to understand the simple fact that there's nothing inherently Nazi about using that rune and nothing in this thread that should make you think it's being used in its capacity as a right-wing symbol. Frankly, you bringing up The Syndicate and alliance PR (which neither of us cares about, apparently) just shows me you're grasping at straws, bringing up things that have nothing to do with the matter at hand. It's completely unnecessary and discredits you more than it does anything else.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Big Brother

[Charles Bolivar]

swastikas are not purely nazi symbols that are only used by nazis, but i'm pretty sure if some dude with a stupid moustache walked into your town waving one around in his jackboots you'd make the connection

 

i get that you're in the syndicate and thus probably feel the need to elawyer for your wrong opinion, but go away, because you're wrong and i don't care about your browser game alliance's "PR"

 

A nordic themed alliance using a rune does not = Nazi. If they were a european nationalist AA role playing as SS officers or if they started using the swastika on mjolnir images then you might have a point.

 

Inb4 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2gOMPpnEw3s/maxresdefault.jpg 

 

 

Heck, the modern germany army still uses the symbol itself and the use of nazi symbols within Germany is illegal so yeah, speaks for itself.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Charles the Tyrant

[Greatnate]

swastikas are not purely nazi symbols that are only used by nazis, but i'm pretty sure if some dude with a stupid moustache walked into your town waving one around in his jackboots you'd make the connection

 

i get that you're in the syndicate and thus probably feel the need to elawyer for your wrong opinion, but go away, because you're wrong and i don't care about your browser game alliance's "PR"

 

There's a difference between a swastika, a pair of sowilo runes, a sowilo rune, and a winged odal rune. You also might guess that the jackboots in your example are pretty key. Using context is the key. Having people RP as vikings or varangians and using Norse runes should not have Nazi connotations. Having people roleplay as racist nationalist socialists probably should. In any case, the racism is the bad part, odal is just a letter, you may as well despise Aethelstan for his spelling as decry this AA for using a winged Odal.

[Myspace]

We liked the flag and used it.  

Question(s): Where did you find the flag? Or did you design it yourself? If you did, what drew you to the rune/where did you find it originally?

 

Also, if it needs to be said, not trolling. Welcome to Orbis~~~

[Hereno]

And have you seen some dude with "a stupid moustache walked into your town waving one around in his jackboots" in this thread? Or anything indicating that Ragnarok are actually Nazis that would justify claiming that they use the Odal rune with the same intent as Nazis? Because I haven't. The Odal rune is not an equivalent to the Swastika. The Nazis liked to appropriate the imagery and symbolism of other people and cultures and you're basically letting them twist and corrupt these symbols for the benefit of themselves, you're accepting it, something I will not do.

 

My membership in The Syndicate has nothing to do with my opinions and as much as you'd like to think I'm wrong, I'm quite certain I've studied these symbols and their meanings more than you have (as they're an important part of my nation's history and culture). If you actually knew what you're talking about, you wouldn't have dismissed my opinion as incorrect and would keep your mind open enough to understand the simple fact that there's nothing inherently Nazi about using that rune and nothing in this thread that should make you think it's being used in its capacity as a right-wing symbol. Frankly, you bringing up The Syndicate and alliance PR (which neither of us cares about, apparently) just shows me you're grasping at straws, bringing up things that have nothing to do with the matter at hand. It's completely unnecessary and discredits you more than it does anything else.

yeah why would i bring up actually playing the game that we're playing as a motivation for you to say something that makes your alliance look justified in doing what it is doing

 

how ridiculous of me. clearly i am grasping at straws despite all of my earlier posts being ignored.

 

what if we bring up the context of this particular rune having been used for years in cybernations as a cover? or the context of orbis having continued attempts by far-right wingers to make nazi alliances?

 

let me ask you this: how do you even know their intent? how do you even know what they actually think? you're sitting here arguing with me about something you have no clue about. isn't the first time you've taken up someone else's bad arguments against me, though, so i suppose it at least fits your character.

 

A nordic themed alliance using a rune does not = Nazi. If they were a european nationalist AA role playing as SS officers or if they started using the swastika on mjolnir images then you might have a point.

 

Inb4 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2gOMPpnEw3s/maxresdefault.jpg 

 

 

Heck, the modern germany army still uses the symbol itself and the use of nazi symbols within Germany is illegal so yeah, speaks for itself.

 

you can also buy runic alphabets and such that include the odal. i'm aware that that one guy from nordreich loved to wave around the one legacy whatever-you-call-it used like once this year in the german army while he falsely claimed that it applied to his son, but the fact that we're talking about them in the first place speaks volumes here, and the fact that you're repeating that argument also speaks volumes.

 

There's a difference between a swastika, a pair of sowilo runes, a sowilo rune, and a winged odal rune. You also might guess that the jackboots in your example are pretty key. Using context is the key. Having people RP as vikings or varangians and using Norse runes should not have Nazi connotations. Having people roleplay as racist nationalist socialists probably should. In any case, the racism is the bad part, odal is just a letter, you may as well despise Aethelstan for his spelling as decry this AA for using a winged Odal.

see my reply above or any of my other posts where i, for example, posted an entire runic alphabet showing how the odal was actually relatively unused and how the connotations come from the nazis. i love repeating myself, truly.

[Big Brother]

yeah why would i bring up actually playing the game that we're playing as a motivation for you to say something that makes your alliance look justified in doing what it is doing

 

how ridiculous of me. clearly i am grasping at straws despite all of my earlier posts being ignored.

 

what if we bring up the context of this particular rune having been used for years in cybernations as a cover? or the context of orbis having continued attempts by far-right wingers to make nazi alliances?

 

let me ask you this: how do you even know their intent? how do you even know what they actually think? you're sitting here arguing with me about something you have no clue about. isn't the first time you've taken up someone else's bad arguments against me, though, so i suppose it at least fits your character.

 

The Syndicate and Ragnarok agreeing to a protectorate has nothing to do with the discussion about Ragnarok's particular choice of flag. Why do any of us need to justify the protectorate to anyone?

 

Even if this rune has been used in the ways and context your describe, I don't see any proof of that being the case here. I don't claim to know their intent, all I claim is that you cannot know their intent either, you cannot know what they actually think. You seem to be trying to make definite judgment of Ragnarok and their use of that rune, I am not trying to do the same. What I'm talking about is more of a tentative statement, merely saying that using that rune doesn't automatically make you a Nazi. Of course it's not impossible that it was used with such intent, but like you pointed out we cannot know their intent and until there's conclusive proof showing that it was used within the context and intent to represent a Nazi symbol, I'm not going to make a final judgment concerning the entire alliance.

[Hereno]

The Syndicate and Ragnarok agreeing to a protectorate has nothing to do with the discussion about Ragnarok's particular choice of flag. Why do any of us need to justify the protectorate to anyone?

 

Even if this rune has been used in the ways and context your describe, I don't see any proof of that being the case here. I don't claim to know their intent, all I claim is that you cannot know their intent either, you cannot know what they actually think. You seem to be trying to make definite judgment of Ragnarok and their use of that rune, I am not trying to do the same. What I'm talking about is more of a tentative statement, merely saying that using that rune doesn't automatically make you a Nazi. Of course it's not impossible that it was used with such intent, but like you pointed out we cannot know their intent and until there's conclusive proof showing that it was used within the context and intent to represent a Nazi symbol, I'm not going to make a final judgment concerning the entire alliance.

so you're just arguing because you like to argue

 

k, go away

[Big Brother]

so you're just arguing because you like to argue

 

k, go away

 

no u

[A/C]

Uff-da, you could have at least made your own flag instead of just plucking one from the internet.

[Sabcat]

A nordic themed alliance using a rune does not = Nazi. If they were a european nationalist AA role playing as SS officers or if they started using the swastika on mjolnir images then you might have a point.

 

Inb4 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2gOMPpnEw3s/maxresdefault.jpg 

 

 

Heck, the modern germany army still uses the symbol itself and the use of nazi symbols within Germany is illegal so yeah, speaks for itself.

 

They're not using a "rune" they're using a Nazi rendering of a rune, a rendering invented by and used by Nazis, no one before and no one since. But sure, let's pretend "vikings".

 

Sad bastards

[Greatnate]

see my reply above or any of my other posts where i, for example, posted an entire runic alphabet showing how the odal was actually relatively unused and how the connotations come from the nazis. i love repeating myself, truly.

 

Your previous post about the odal being rare used the Italic Runic alphabet rather than the Elder Futhark, you can blatantly see the runes that odal is based on when the alphabet was adapted to germanic languages. It's a fairly common rune if you look at the correct alphabet, see an example from the Rök runestone.

 

 

There's kind of a lot of odals. The sound described by Odal was divided between Uruz and Ansuz during the development of the Younger Futhark in the late 8th Century. The rune also survived in the Anglo-Saxon futhorc until the alphabet was banned by Cnut the Great around 1000 AD. If you look at the appropriate time period, it's a very common letter. It's used in words like bean, sister, and do. Not exactly a rare thing.

[Bezzers]

I extremely doubt that Diomedes thought ' I know, lets use a nazi rune to make us stand out above the other small alliances! Thats a great way to get new members!'

It was probably more along the lines of 'I like the aesthetics of that one, lets get that'. I like to think that I know Diomedes well, and he isnt the type of person to:

 

a ) condone the use of a nazi related rune

b ) accept the proposal of a flag from an outer source with the knowledge that it was nazi related

c ) plaster his alliance flag on this post knowing that it would attract hate (top tip, he didnt know it was nazi related)

Edited April 8, 2016 by Bezzers

[Diomedes]

I extremely doubt that Diomedes thought ' I know, lets use a nazi rune to make us stand out above the other small alliances! Thats a great way to get new members!'

It was probably more along the lines of 'I like the aesthetics of that one, lets get that'. I like to think that I know Diomedes well, and he isnt the type of person to:

 

a ) condone the use of a nazi related rune

b ) accept the proposal of a flag from an outer source with the knowledge that it was nazi related

c ) plaster his alliance flag on this post knowing that it would attract hate (top tip, he didnt know it was nazi related)

Thank you, Bezzers.  Well said!

 

Let me say this so everyone understands: I despise all hate of any kind...racism, hate speech, violence, etc, etc. And once again, in regards to our flag: we picked this flag because we liked it and thought it would be a nice fit our alliance. Nothing more, nothing less. 

[Agent W]

I'm going to put this argument to bed. As a Jew, I don't find the Odal rune offensive, and have had nothing but pleasant interactions with RoK, whom I interviewed and recommended for protectorate status.

[Diomedes]

I'm going to put this argument to bed. As a Jew, I don't find the Odal rune offensive, and have had nothing but pleasant interactions with RoK, whom I interviewed and recommended for protectorate status.

Thank you, Agent W for this. 

[Rob Semloh]

I'm not Jewish, but as an American right-wing nutjob extraordinaire (the Ted Cruz type) I'm extremely pro-Israel and pro-Judaism. If I see anything remotely Nazi or anti-Semitic I call it out immediately. With that being said, a winged Odal rune is just that - a winged Odal rune. It's what you say, how you act, and how you treat others that matters.

 

When I went to Bali and saw the swastika being used everywhere because it's a Hindu Island, I didn't flip out and start going on an anti-Nazi tirade against people. Why? Because in context it made sense; it was, after all, a Hindu/Buddhist symbol that meant something positive before it was hijacked by a genocidal madman.

 

If I go to a civil war reenactment I don't flip out when I see a confederate flag. Why? Because it's in context - it's a reenactment so it only makes sense that it's there.

 

When a bunch of guys and gals in a nation-building RP game that has more Viking and Nordic themed groups than you can count on one hand decides to use a winged Odal rune in some of their symbology I don't flip out. Why? Because it's in context.

 

Context matters. How you act also matters. So far, when looked at in context and when their behavior is examined, Ragnarok has done nothing wrong.