2/22/2016 - Military Caps & Donation Changes

[Filthy Fifths]

Consequences for one's actions.  You raided a top military alliance and got Infra bombed for it.  You turned it around and raided the lower tiers of the alliance you initially picked a fight with because you know if you grow any higher, those same guys will just hit you again.  Now you're having a issue with all of this?

 

Why not seek a political way out from being infra bombed?  Like say...  an apology and non aggression pact for a certain time to the leader of the alliance you raid(ed).

 

I find it funny that I saw a rather large bank deposit from t$ as soon as the forces of Guardian, Seven Kingdoms, and Mensa HQ got white peace with Arrgh! after their declaration of War Against Piracy. That seems a bit political to me if I do say so myself.  

[Alex]

I honestly wouldn't mind this update as much if wars ended with more than ground attacks. Eating 500-600 infra plane strikes for 5 days even at 2500 infra on 3 defensive wars will take you well below cap. Sending you down to nations with 5 cities and more military than you can have. Just because a few of us said to hell with rebuilding that is no reason to change that aspect of it.

 

Sheepy can you please respond to this? Is there no way to end a war before 5 days? It's not fun to sit there watching your hard built infra sink for 5 days, being in that position personally a few times. It makes wars far to one sided and not it's worse if you are left at 400 infra per city you can't even fight off the lower tier or if you have no money left then you can't build up to fight as you hit bill lock and can't make enough military to even raid.

 

I can't think of any good ways to make that work, but perhaps we could brainstorm and come up with something.

[Alex]

First of all, I'm within the top 4% of the game. Literally only 15-40 nations out of the 4k nations could even possibly make 20m a day stably. You're right about the cash, you will make more. But now credits will also be sold on the market for more. I'm guessing around the 3-4mil mark.

 

What you've done is created a system that people will no longer go to the market to buy credits but buy them on their own, smart but in order to make that worth while you've stretched the possible earnings by a shit ton. 20/40/60m per !@#$ing month is absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand why you even think that it's balanced at all.

 

Perhaps you're not considering the value of resources produced.

 

And why do you presume credit prices are going to spike to $3-$4 m? Obviously they'd never go to less than $2,000,000, but the fact of the matter is that they were already above that anyway. And by increasing the cap to 10/month, we're going to see an increase in volume of credits sold on the market, with no reason to believe there will be an increase in credits purchased (after all, most nations and alliances that are going to buy flags and pips have done so already) as VIP subscriptions and player ads sold will likely remain consistent.

 

There's no reason to believe anyone is suddenly going to be getting $60,000,000 per month, and while $40,000,000 is a lot it's only maybe $2-4 million more than what people were getting previously.

 

---

 

Unrelated to that, here's an updated figure after I realized there was a 1% population tank cap previously, which was increased to 1.5%. In that aspect, the amount of tanks you can have over a smaller nation has increased by 10% in this example (from 42% to 46%) and that actually probably helps anyone who's interested in raiding and the ground battles. See:

 

[Etgfrog]

I do like the changes. Then again I'm at that perfect spot where it barely effects me. This ends up being a flat out buff to any type of attack that isn't ground attack or espionage. There is now a reason to fear an enemy with a maxed out navy(hint: navy can destroy infrastructure 10% faster per day then air force, but at the cost of 50% more gas and munitions). At this point you need 1000 infrastructure on a city with 0% disease and crime to max out the military for that city, 1200 if your focusing on resource production.

 

Also, this is a HUGE buff to nukes. If you get hit by several nukes, your out of a large war for 10+ days unless you can keep your current military alive.

[LordRahl2]

Wait you nerfed the max recruit receuitable forces per day??

 

Whatever for?

[Buorhann]

I find it funny that I saw a rather large bank deposit from t$ as soon as the forces of Guardian, Seven Kingdoms, and Mensa HQ got white peace with Arrgh! after their declaration of War Against Piracy. That seems a bit political to me if I do say so myself.  

 

Cool.  Could use that money to rebuild Infra then, yes?

[Filthy Fifths]

Cool.  Could use that money to rebuild Infra then, yes?

 

or buy more cities and rum

[William Mannax]

No limits on spies!

 

So Central Intelligence Agencies are worthless. 

[William Mannax]

No limits on spies!

 

So Central Intelligence Agencies are worthless. 

Oh. Nevermind. I got excited there. 

[Lord of Puns]

Perhaps you're not considering the value of resources produced.

 

And why do you presume credit prices are going to spike to $3-$4 m? Obviously they'd never go to less than $2,000,000, but the fact of the matter is that they were already above that anyway. And by increasing the cap to 10/month, we're going to see an increase in volume of credits sold on the market, with no reason to believe there will be an increase in credits purchased (after all, most nations and alliances that are going to buy flags and pips have done so already) as VIP subscriptions and player ads sold will likely remain consistent.

 

There's no reason to believe anyone is suddenly going to be getting $60,000,000 per month, and while $40,000,000 is a lot it's only maybe $2-4 million more than what people were getting previously.

 

 

Hm I wonder why people would sell credits for more to make a profit now. If credits were worth 1mil and they were sold on the market for at least 2mil. It's not like they've already spiked to around 3mil on the market.

 

60million is off, but selling 10 credits to make 30-40million is ridiculous. And no you basically doubled their income. Also what is this about having no reason to increase the sale of credits, wasn't that whole reason for updating them? To increase the sales? Where the hell are you getting these figures? 

[Jacob Hanson]

Oh, you are correct, somehow I had missed the restriction was previously in place. I'll have to crunch some numbers again here, but this change actually benefits you then if you like tanks

Warpool I have to leave at the moment but I will return and respond to you.

 

You also need to factor in that 75k soldiers vs 100k soldiers can still minimize the chance of a triumph even if you have a ridiculous amount of soldiers. Basically by lowering soldiers you are making the tanks less effective as well. 

[Buorhann]

You also need to factor in that 75k soldiers vs 100k soldiers can still minimize the chance of a triumph even if you have a ridiculous amount of soldiers. Basically by lowering soldiers you are making the tanks less effective as well. 

 

That's not that big of a issue.  Adding in other military units, you still hold the advantage.

[Blade]

I'm no raider, but penalising players that go for a high city count with low infra style vs high infra with small city count seems pointless... they're both equally valid play styles with their own advantages and disadvantages. Changing the system so you have to have to have ~900 infra in a city to fully utilise its air force is too high. Especailly when in war you are likely to end with only 1 or 2 of the military sub sets still functional, be that ships / soldiers / tanks / air and you're going to need to be able to use them. 

[Andrezj Kolarov]

What's the deal with this:

 

I thought the new max was 20 million.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Itani Corsus

[Mayor]

Sheepy wants people to

 

What's the deal with this:

 

I thought the new max was 20 million.

 

Sheepy wants people to buy credits with money, lose everything being infrabombed, then rebuy more credits next month in an infinite cycle. The reason why raiders are an exception is because we buy credits with looted money and not real dolla.

 

JK, though that ad surprised me as well. XD I don't really care about credits much but the handicap on rebuying military units is BS if you ask me.

[Tywin Lannister]

Perhaps you're not considering the value of resources produced.

 

And why do you presume credit prices are going to spike to $3-$4 m? Obviously they'd never go to less than $2,000,000, but the fact of the matter is that they were already above that anyway. And by increasing the cap to 10/month, we're going to see an increase in volume of credits sold on the market, with no reason to believe there will be an increase in credits purchased (after all, most nations and alliances that are going to buy flags and pips have done so already) as VIP subscriptions and player ads sold will likely remain consistent.

 

There's no reason to believe anyone is suddenly going to be getting $60,000,000 per month, and while $40,000,000 is a lot it's only maybe $2-4 million more than what people were getting previously.

 

---

 

Unrelated to that, here's an updated figure after I realized there was a 1% population tank cap previously, which was increased to 1.5%. In that aspect, the amount of tanks you can have over a smaller nation has increased by 10% in this example (from 42% to 46%) and that actually probably helps anyone who's interested in raiding and the ground battles. See:

 

 

I don't know Sheepy if you're intentionally missing the point or genuinely being misled but that Nation 2 without caps is 1099.57 score, and Nation 1 without caps is 565 score. (I assumed they were smart enough not to make ships and had 1 project, an ID, each.)

 

You can declare on a nation with a score between 824.25 - 1,923.25.

 

The evil Nation 2 can't even declare on peace-loving Nation 1............... What's the point of comparing people who can't even go to war... .-. 

 

Furthermore, for your evil nation 2 without caps, You must defend from nations with a score between 628.29 - 1,466.00.

 

A city 12 nation, having 1000 infra in each city, can have an army of 180k soldiers, 12k tanks and 1080 planes, with a score of 1456, can declare on your evil nation 2 without cap and absolutely wreck him...

 

Give me your numbers on the evil nations before your terrible changes who were such a big problem and let's see if they've a way to be countered using numbers alone. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Tywin Lannister

[Dan77]

I know 2 top quality players who are leaving because of these changes already.  The only reason they haven't managed to go already is because:

Delete Nation
You received the following errors:
You have sent a trade offer in the last 3 days and won't be able to delete your nation until you've had 3 consecutive days without using the market.

 

I think more are about to follow.

 

Having given it some serious thought and slept on it, I have come to the conclusion that these changes are still !@#$ing retarded!  I mean even after basing them all on incorrect figures and having to have that pointed out to you, rather than revert to the previous caps that worked so well, you've just decided to roll with it and see what happens.  Meanwhle you want people to spend more money on the game.

[Wayne]

This been tested out on the test server?

[Alex]

Wait you nerfed the max recruit receuitable forces per day??

 

Whatever for?

 

It's just an indirect result of changing the maximum caps, as your daily recruitment is just a percentage of your maximum build.

 

Hm I wonder why people would sell credits for more to make a profit now. If credits were worth 1mil and they were sold on the market for at least 2mil. It's not like they've already spiked to around 3mil on the market.

 

60million is off, but selling 10 credits to make 30-40million is ridiculous. And no you basically doubled their income. Also what is this about having no reason to increase the sale of credits, wasn't that whole reason for updating them? To increase the sales? Where the hell are you getting these figures? 

Yes, my numbers were off, I have no idea why I thought you could get $40m for 10 credits. In any case, you suggested in your previous post that players getting 20m/40m/60m per month was ridiculous, and I don't know where you came up with the latter two numbers.

 

Also, expect as soon as March 1st hit, everyone will be buying and then selling credits on the market, prices will drop to around $2,000,000 I'd wager.

 

What's the deal with this:

 

I thought the new max was 20 million.

 

Yes, it is, I don't know what I was thinking when I made that. Long day yesterday, I took that ad down because I screwed up.

 

I don't know Sheepy if you're intentionally missing the point or genuinely being misled but that Nation 2 without caps is 1099.57 score, and Nation 1 without caps is 565 score. (I assumed they were smart enough not to make ships and had 1 project, an ID, each.)

 

You can declare on a nation with a score between 824.25 - 1,923.25.

 

The evil Nation 2 can't even declare on peace-loving Nation 1............... What's the point of comparing people who can't even go to war... .-. 

 

Furthermore, for your evil nation 2 without caps, You must defend from nations with a score between 628.29 - 1,466.00.

 

A city 12 nation, having 1000 infra in each city, can have an army of 180k soldiers, 12k tanks and 1080 planes, with a score of 1456, can declare on your evil nation 2 without cap and absolutely wreck him...

 

Give me your numbers on the evil nations before your terrible changes who were such a big problem and let's see if they've a way to be countered using numbers alone. 

 

You don't have to have the max military built when you declare war, you know.

[Tywin Lannister]

You don't have to have the max military built when you declare war, you know.

 

Your reply is you don't have to max military? Like seriously...? That works both ways you know. It's like you've forgotten other people who've to counter and declare wars. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Tywin Lannister

[Alex]

Your reply is you don't have to max military? Like seriously...? That works both ways you know. It's like you've forgotten other people who've to counter and declare wars. 

 

What? The point is, the nations that I picked were in the war range at the time, and then I looked at their max military capacities. You can't claim that score changes would put them out of range, because if they're already at war, their score doesn't matter anymore.

[Tywin Lannister]

What? The point is, the nations that I picked were in the war range at the time, and then I looked at their max military capacities. You can't claim that score changes would put them out of range, because if they're already at war, their score doesn't matter anymore.

 

Sheepy, if the city who had a lot more military capacity CAN be countered by another nation above, then what is the issue? I thought this was about team-work that meant being in an alliance who has people spread around who will have my back during war. Not a 1 man thing where it's all me alone. Why are you not thinking about counters? 

[Alex]

Sheepy, if the city who had a lot more military capacity CAN be countered by another nation above, then what is the issue? I thought this was about team-work that meant being in an alliance who has people spread around who will have my back during war. Not a 1 man thing where it's all me alone. Why are you not thinking about counters? 

 

Because players that have to fight nations with 7 more cities than they have and more than double their military capacity get frustrated and quit the game.

[Valakias]

Sheepy, the credit change was not a good idea at all. Now, if someone has a lot of money, and they're bad at the game, they can pretty much win a war that they're already losing. I get that you want money, but this is f**king pay-to-win.

 

Im not sure how much 5k max of a single resource is going to change to a nation at war, considering i like spent 15k of gas and ammo in just the first round in the previous one. Looks to me that this its going to be used by new players to catch up instead.

 

And even if someone rebuys said resources, and they are losing, well, means more for me to loot .

 

I didn't see anything pay to win in this update really, buying resources sounds the same as buying cash to me, if that wasn't P2W, why is this?

[Valakias]

Because players that have to fight nations with 7 more cities than they have and more than double their military capacity get frustrated and quit the game.

 

More than that, its just stupidously unfair, already being downdeclared by peoples with 2 or 3 more cities its an absolute pain, but 7, in the low tiers, with reduced resources and less possibilities for alliances to help? Way off.

 

We will see the merits and demerits of the update at work in the next months and we shall see how it goes in the next war or so.