UPN Joins the Brawl

[Kurdanak]

Excuse me what are you talking about I'm pretty sure TLF is the true power in our sphere. Why else is it called the TLF sphere?

I'm going to start handing out sunglasses, in that case.

 

[Asierith]

Listen, I liked you guys and I really wish we never had to cancel our treaty. I do not know, and I still do not know the entire story behind the OOC attacks. What we knew at the time that there were OOC attacks and that Rose was doing nothing about them. So, with the information we knew, the lack of communication between the coalition leaders and BK, the possibility of Rose pre-empting tS, we left the coalition and declared that we would be neutral. That changed once you guys hit tS. I wanted to get this out there because it is relevant to this situation as it has been brought up in this thread comparing BK's actions to UPN's actions.

 

You tried to say that this was like us hitting BoC, but BoC also hit tS. Our tS treaty was activated and we responded.

You tried to say that our treaty with UPN was an MnDoAP, and therefore it was okay for UPN to hit our ally. That again, is false.

Then you said that what UPN did is the same thing that we did to you guys back in the proxy war, and I've explained why that is also false.

 

The misinformation in this thread and the bandwagon of the Rose followers is astonishing. There is nothing you can say that makes what UPN did any better. They hit their allies ally without any reason whatsoever. They hit TKR for a "friend" and obviously put their "friend" over their ally. Oh wait, they did have a reason, it was because they were tied to tS. Remember when Rose was all pissed that Mensa hit Vanguard to get at tS? I remember that, because I was pissed at it as well. 

 

TKR did absolutely nothing to deserve being hit by UPN. It was totally valid for VE to hit TKR though. But for UPN to sit here, disregard their ally that have been their ally for a very long time, and hit TKR without provocation is disgusting.

 

Shame on you UPN.

 

Yosodog - why you hate? why?

[Redarmy]

 

:')

[Spooner]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. My claim was that Mensa attacked several of Rose's allies, it was 2 protectorates and Vanguard iirc. I'm sure your insider can also tell you we have been exchanging funds with at least another 5-10 alliances. I don't need to spin anything to make Mensa look like !@#$, you guys do a good enough job yourselves. If you didn't there wouldn't be so many people putting effort into this war for the sole reason of seeing you guys fall. 

 

Please, do name them for me. It's an opportunistic war dude, just own it. There's no problems with saying so. If you don't need to spin anything, then why are you trying so hard to do so? Truly though, if an alliance will lie to it's own members for weeks, why would they be truthful with the rest of the community.

 

And yes, I also know you sent funds to TLF and whoever else, but that's not nearly as juicy as TEST, you salty dog you.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Syrup

[Saru]

Listen, I liked you guys and I really wish we never had to cancel our treaty. I do not know, and I still do not know the entire story behind the OOC attacks. What we knew at the time that there were OOC attacks and that Rose was doing nothing about them. So, with the information we knew, the lack of communication between the coalition leaders and BK, the possibility of Rose pre-empting tS, we left the coalition and declared that we would be neutral. That changed once you guys hit tS. I wanted to get this out there because it is relevant to this situation as it has been brought up in this thread comparing BK's actions to UPN's actions.

 

You tried to say that this was like us hitting BoC, but BoC also hit tS. Our tS treaty was activated and we responded.

You tried to say that our treaty with UPN was an MnDoAP, and therefore it was okay for UPN to hit our ally. That again, is false.

Then you said that what UPN did is the same thing that we did to you guys back in the proxy war, and I've explained why that is also false.

 

The misinformation in this thread and the bandwagon of the Rose followers is astonishing. There is nothing you can say that makes what UPN did any better. They hit their allies ally without any reason whatsoever. They hit TKR for a "friend" and obviously put their "friend" over their ally. Oh wait, they did have a reason, it was because they were tied to tS. Remember when Rose was all pissed that Mensa hit Vanguard to get at tS? I remember that, because I was pissed at it as well. 

 

TKR did absolutely nothing to deserve being hit by UPN. It was totally valid for VE to hit TKR though. But for UPN to sit here, disregard their ally that have been their ally for a very long time, and hit TKR without provocation is disgusting.

 

Shame on you UPN.

 

If you really want to do this in public then we can, there's enough shit to fling your way.

 

At the end of the day I understand your frustrations, but we had to weigh up what we feel is in the interests of our security -- and there is no clause in the treaty that we signed that would suggest that this move is illegitimate.

[Slimer]

Excuse me what are you talking about I'm pretty sure TLF is the true power in our sphere. Why else is it called the TLF sphere?

Umm certainly you meant to say CF! The acronyms are very similar

[Yosodog]

If you really want to do this in public then we can, there's enough shit to fling your way.

 

At the end of the day I understand your frustrations, but we had to weigh up what we feel is in the interests of our security -- and there is no clause in the treaty that we signed that would suggest that this move is illegitimate.

 

I understand why you joined the war, what I don't understand is why TKR?

[Saru]

I understand why you joined the war, what I don't understand is why TKR?

 

I am only assuming, but I imagine that our government firstly debated on whether or not it is in our interests to join this war -- and in what sort of capacity, and once that was decided we looked to the move that would make the most strategic sense for us, our allies and the other alliances we are fighting alongside with. You can rest assured that it wasn't a move that was motivated by some sort of malice towards TKR themselves, or to add further strain to the relationship between the two alliances. 

[Sisyphus]

Well, VE and Alpha might make a difference but I really don't expect UPN to do much except be bloated weight.

 

In fact, if we weren't preoccupied running Rose's face through the dirt I imagine UPN would look a lot like they did a few days ago.

[MRBOOTY]

I am only assuming, but I imagine that our government firstly debated on whether or not it is in our interests to join this war -- and in what sort of capacity, and once that was decided we looked to the move that would make the most strategic sense for us, our allies and the other alliances we are fighting alongside with. You can rest assured that it wasn't a move that was motivated by some sort of malice towards TKR themselves, or to add further strain to the relationship between the two alliances.

bs Saru we know you still run UPN

[Jgoods101]

Yosodog - why you hate? why?

I'm new around here so I can claim ignorance when it comes to politics in general around around these parts but I think it's because you activated the optional aggression portion of your treaty with VE to hit a bloc ally of BK. 

 

In case your question was rhetorical, please center your flag. 

[Lu Xun]

If you look at the proceedings of the war it's the bandwagoners who have been focused on, instead of the primary alliances. It seems to have worked to some extent; the bandwagoners tend to be small, relatively uninvested, and difficult to protect.

 

Bandwagoners are good offensive firepower when they're winning the war, but they're likely to turn white if the enemy coalition, all of a sudden, decides that they're fun targets. Not saying that TKR is one of those, but I would assume that's the rationale.

[Yosodog]

I am only assuming, but I imagine that our government firstly debated on whether or not it is in our interests to join this war -- and in what sort of capacity, and once that was decided we looked to the move that would make the most strategic sense for us, our allies and the other alliances we are fighting alongside with. You can rest assured that it wasn't a move that was motivated by some sort of malice towards TKR themselves, or to add further strain to the relationship between the two alliances. 

 

I understand that you guys need to do what you've gotta do for the security of your alliance. As far as I know and from what I'm insinuating, UPN sees the tS sphere as a threat and that UPN will be the next target for tS/Mensa. Also what Emmad told me in a query is that you guys thought TKR would counter UPN if you guys went on SK.

 

So let's break it down. tS' sphere being a threat after this war is completely a possibility and a very valid excuse. The only way I see TKR fitting into that picture is because they're allies with tS. Now, I would still be pissed if you all hit tS, but at least I would know why they were hit rather than being completely confused. It's why I wasn't super pissed when you guys hit tS in the previous war. You had a valid reason and I fully understood why you had beef with tS. We still defended tS, as per our obligations, but we moved on. Now, you guys hit TKR for...... what? The only reason I see is that they're allied to tS. It's the same thing with Mensa hitting Vanguard. If you have a problem with tS then hit tS and not their ally. (For the record, I do not want you to hit tS but hey, at least it would be a better reason than hitting TKR)

 

Now, TKR counter attacking UPN is ridiculous. As far as I know, they didn't want to get more involved into this war. Not only that, but they're not allies with SK. Why would they defend SK?

 

Out of everyone in the coalition, why TKR? They pose no threat to you, they pose no threat to you in the future, and they're your allies ally. I just can't understand this.

[Licorice]

 

I don't care for a world where Yosodog takes things seriously.

 

This. Whole. Thread

 

Yoso staph

[jaguar]

lol just deal with it, hitting ally's ally is common thing. This world is too small and there are too many treaties( don't blame tS kek)

[Saru]

I understand that you guys need to do what you've gotta do for the security of your alliance. As far as I know and from what I'm insinuating, UPN sees the tS sphere as a threat and that UPN will be the next target for tS/Mensa. Also what Emmad told me in a query is that you guys thought TKR would counter UPN if you guys went on SK.

 

So let's break it down. tS' sphere being a threat after this war is completely a possibility and a very valid excuse. The only way I see TKR fitting into that picture is because they're allies with tS. Now, I would still be pissed if you all hit tS, but at least I would know why they were hit rather than being completely confused. It's why I wasn't super pissed when you guys hit tS in the previous war. You had a valid reason and I fully understood why you had beef with tS. We still defended tS, as per our obligations, but we moved on. Now, you guys hit TKR for...... what? The only reason I see is that they're allied to tS. It's the same thing with Mensa hitting Vanguard. If you have a problem with tS then hit tS and not their ally. (For the record, I do not want you to hit tS but hey, at least it would be a better reason than hitting TKR)

 

Now, TKR counter attacking UPN is ridiculous. As far as I know, they didn't want to get more involved into this war. Not only that, but they're not allies with SK. Why would they defend SK?

 

Out of everyone in the coalition, why TKR? They pose no threat to you, they pose no threat to you in the future, and they're your allies ally. I just can't understand this.

 

We decided that it was in our interests to join this war, like you accept. At that point I can only assume that we deliberated and decided that we have to do all we can to help the coalition that we decided to align ourselves with, even if that means making hard decisions and getting involved in a full scale war. It made strategic sense to hit TKR, atleast from our perspective and the datapoints available to us. You know full well that it's not a move that was intended to spite either you or BK... 

 

Again, I understand your frustrations but I don't know if this is necessarily the best avenue for you to vent.

[MrsPigeon]

Wow this blew up real fast. o/BK

 

Can we all just have fun now and bomb the heck out of each other? xD

 

edit: Welcome to the war. We were getting bored anyway :*

Edited February 9, 2016 by Piratemonkey

[aaaaddd22]

No point in arguing, UPN is shit.

[Saru]

No point in arguing, UPN is shit.

 

Says the guy mass beiging his opponents. 

[Aksel]

We decided that it was in our interests to join this war, like you accept. At that point I can only assume that we deliberated and decided that we have to do all we can to help the coalition that we decided to align ourselves with, even if that means making hard decisions and getting involved in a full scale war. It made strategic sense to hit TKR, atleast from our perspective and the datapoints available to us. You know full well that it's not a move that was intended to spite either you or BK... 

 

Again, I understand your frustrations but I don't know if this is necessarily the best avenue for you to vent.

 

 

pssshhhh this guy

 

[PyroStat]

I think UPN joining the war is correct but, I don't see why BK is so pissed at UPN? I think it was correct to hit TKP, it was strategy not because we wanted to attack the t$ group. 

[James II]

I think UPN joining the war is correct but, I don't see why BK is so pissed at UPN? I think it was correct to hit TKP, it was strategy not because we wanted to attack the t$ group. 

Don't bring logic into this. You'll ruin the dynamic of Orbis.

[Buorhann]

The admittance that neither coalition of alliances could handle Syndi-sphere.  Interesting times ahead of us now.

[Yosodog]

We decided that it was in our interests to join this war, like you accept. At that point I can only assume that we deliberated and decided that we have to do all we can to help the coalition that we decided to align ourselves with, even if that means making hard decisions and getting involved in a full scale war. It made strategic sense to hit TKR, atleast from our perspective and the datapoints available to us. You know full well that it's not a move that was intended to spite either you or BK... 

 

Again, I understand your frustrations but I don't know if this is necessarily the best avenue for you to vent.

 

You know, these past few days I've been asked constantly to do something that might compromise the relationship between BK and UPN. And each time, we said it was not worth risking our relationship with UPN over. And as far as I knew pre-war, that was pretty much where UPN stood too. We both didn't really want to get involved in Mensa's war, and we said that we would defend our allies. And I understand that things change and opinions change over the course of a war. I'm just really upset UPN chose their "friend" over their ally. 

 

I do believe you when you say that this wasn't done to spite BK. I don't think there was any bad blood between the two alliances. Communication was going up and we were agreeing on more and more things. What also hurts me is that during the decision process, UPN decided that BK simply wasn't worth it even though I thought our relationship was getting a lot better.

 

And trust me, I've vented in other ways too

Edited February 9, 2016 by Yosodog

[LordStrum]

I expect another 13 pages by the time I wake up or the doge gets it.