Letter to the Moderation Team

[Kastor]

So here https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10764-rose-must-really-hate-deic/page-2you guys closed a thread for spam, when in fact, it wasn't spam, just in the incorrect subforum. You easily could have moved this to Orbis Central and it would have been fine and not considered spam. So why didn't you? Are Mods practicing that they close first, more later? Just looking for a response.

 

Note: I am not calling out any mods, nor am I complaining about a ruling, I am asking for clarification on a ruling that was done by the moderation team. This is in a discussion forum, so please do not close this thread, even if and when you answered because I may have additional questions to follow up your response.

 

Thank you,

 

~Kastor

[Avruch]

How was it in the wrong subforum? It was a thread about a Rose mass embargo of DEIC. That seems to be as squarely "alliance affairs" as anything could be. 

[Kastor]

How was it in the wrong subforum? It was a thread about a Rose mass embargo of DEIC. That seems to be as squarely "alliance affairs" as anything could be.

 

But it wasn't an announcement from an alliance, which is basically what that subforum is supposed to be used for. However from my interpretation it wasn't spam, which is why I'm asking them why they thought it was, and why the thread wasn't moved instead of locked. Edited January 25, 2016 by Kastor

[LordRahl2]

But it wasn't an announcement from an alliance,

 

You mean like an alliance between alliance A and B, a war declaration between alliance A and B, or a mass embargo between alliance A and B?

[Buorhann]

The word I got was that it wasn't an Alliance Affair thread because I'm not a member of Rose and DEIC, and that it should've been moved.

 

Let's call it as it is ( Along with the crackdown of signatures on some Mensa members ) - the mods are clearly bias.  I'm pretty sure that they'll find some way to justify or explain their actions, but this new team is just as bad as it previously was.  Not too surprised.

 

The reports are pretty consistent with the same moderators too.

[LordRahl2]

The word I got was that it wasn't an Alliance Affair thread because I'm not a member of Rose and DEIC, and that it should've been moved.

 

Did they quote a rule that says that you must be a member of alliance A or B to start or post something about in game "alliance affairs" of alliance A or B?  I did not think so.

 

Anyway it is increasingly clear who these mods are/who their friends are.  Moderation has now shifted to an "in" alliance block and an "out" alliance block.

 

ggwp

[Ayayay]

Meh, it's always been that way. Alliance Affairs is supposed to be announcements from alliances only. Orbis Central is supposed to talk about the current in-game politics and shit. 

[LordRahl2]

Meh, it's always been that way. Alliance Affairs is supposed to be announcements from alliances only. Orbis Central is supposed to talk about the current in-game politics and shit. 

 

 

Alliance Affairs

In-Game alliance announcements and discussions.

 

Alliance Affairs Forum Guidelines

 

General Forum Rules apply here, as with all forums except where otherwise stated.  Reminder that this is an In-Game (IG) forum.  It's purpose is to allow players to role play their alliances and nations. Players are encouraged to roleplay where possible. However, references to the game, game mechanics, irc, and alliance forums are allowed as long as they pertain to the topic being discussed.

 

 

Do not impersonate other players/nations/governments.

[Alex]

The word I got was that it wasn't an Alliance Affair thread because I'm not a member of Rose and DEIC, and that it should've been moved.

 

Let's call it as it is ( Along with the crackdown of signatures on some Mensa members ) - the mods are clearly bias.  I'm pretty sure that they'll find some way to justify or explain their actions, but this new team is just as bad as it previously was.  Not too surprised.

 

The reports are pretty consistent with the same moderators too.

 

16 (verbal, 0 point) warnings were issued for signature violations yesterday. How many of those players were in Mensa HQ?

 

Noir - 1

The Light Federation - 1

Rose - 1

The Underground - 1

GPA - 1

Arrgh - 2

Seven Kingdoms - 1

Mensa HQ - 4

Charming Friends - 1

Odd Squad - 1

Black Knights - 1

UPN - 1

 

Those are the raw numbers. Argue if you want that because 4 players were in Mensa that you're being targeted by the mods, but I think the sheer variety of players warned says otherwise, that no alliances were being targeted. Also, these were approved by 2 moderators each.

 

Here's an announcement Thor just posted as well: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10781-regarding-the-removal-of-signatures/

 

There is a small discrepancy in our respective counts, that's probably my fault (sometimes you miss a thing or two when you have 16 tabs open.) In any case, we came to roughly the same number of total warnings issued (my 16 vs. his 17; I probably accidentally closed a tab early) and that Mensa got 4 warnings. 

[Kastor]

Can anyone answer my question?

[Mike Haggar]

Can anyone answer my question?

I think that the mod staff were trying to make it clear that no government member of Rose has currently declared war on DEIC, and vice versa. Alliance Affairs are one of the more serious parts of the forums because topics inside of it carry more weight than topics in other parts of the forum. Smaller alliances may not have the experience to judge which declarations are genuine, and may start a war over mistaken identity when anyone "declares war" for another alliance. This is especially sensitive when a poster is overtly hostile to one of the alliances in question, as Buorhann has repeatedly been hostile towards Rose and would celebrate if a mistaken war broke out.

 

For an example, John Harms started a similar thread about Rose declaring on the Greens, but he started it in the spam forum. This lends it far less weight than the Alliance Affairs forum. I still think it was in bad taste, but I doubt John cares.

 

So if Buorhann had started it in any place except for Alliance Affairs, then it's doubtful the thread would have been locked. Posters need to be more cautious in Alliance Affairs than in most of the other forums, and I'd even say it's advisable that non-gov members never start an Alliance Affairs thread to prevent dragging their own alliance into an inadvertent incident. Post all you want, just don't start a thread.

[LordRahl2]

The MOD staff should be doing NO SUCH THING. How this concept escapes you and them is beyond me. It does, however, confirm their bias.

 

I agree that they were intentionally interfering with the open community discussion inappropriately.

[BeachBunny]

Must have literally nothing better to do

[Mike Haggar]

The MOD staff should be doing NO SUCH THING. How this concept escapes you and them is beyond me. It does, however, confirm their bias.

 

I agree that they were intentionally interfering with the open community discussion inappropriately.

I will agree that moving the topic would have been a more appropriate response, but it's likely the lock was a kneejerk reaction, just like much of the bellyaching and drama in this thread. Buorhann is fun and has sharp eyes, but he isn't in Rose or DEIC.

 

Sometimes mods are human, too. They get emotional and make mistakes. Players are acting like a warn or lock has mortally wounded them, rather than simply moving the discussion to a more appropriate subforum or calmly requesting an appeal. Both of those actions would do far more for open discussion than throwing a temper tantrum which has taken attention completely away from the subject at hand.

 

I'm hoping Sheepy or another mod will move and reopen the thread, now that there's been time for people to calm down. But they are the authority here, not me.

 

Or maybe one of you could start a thread in Orbis Central. If that gets locked, then the caterwaulin can start.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Mike Haggar

[Omnipotent]

All I can gather from this is some people need to read the rules before posting and not get so damn annoyed over stuff on here.

[Buorhann]

I could care less if the thread was locked.  Some of the replies were spammy in it.  No big deal.  Could be moved, could be locked, whatever.

 

The warning point for it pisses me off.  I'm not a spammer.  Haven't been since I've joined this game.  My thread followed exactly what the Alliance Affairs description was at the time of it's posting, and I've been told "Yeah we'll clear up the rules cause their ambiguous".

 

But I still got a warning point for it, based on something that is ambiguous.  Sure, it's just 1 point, but it's the principle behind it.  If this new moderation team wants me to think they've changed, then this is definitely the wrong way to go about it.

 

It also doesn't help when the same moderator(s) go all A-Team on the forums either.  The whole point of having a bigger moderation team was to show no bias at all by spreading out the modding responsibilities.  One moderator touched on ALL issues that happened recently.

 

 

PS:  Just to clarify, I'm not always hostile to Rose.  I mostly have fun with it.  Now Pfeiffer on the other hand...

Edited January 25, 2016 by Buorhann

[Thor (Former Moderator)]

One moderator touched on ALL issues that happened recently.

 

I can't help that I'm an active moderator. You should see the report center where we have 5-15 reports and discussions a day. I touch on almost every one of them. Whether I am the first moderator, the second, the tie breaker or just giving my opinion after the fact. I pulled some logs and records for you.

My moderator logs since December 19, 2015

Warn Points - 23
Verbal Warnings - 21
Total Warnings - 44

Warnings given to Mensa HQ as an alliance by me: 4
Warnings given to Mensa HQ that I signed off on: 1

There are individual members (ex. John Harms) who have received more warnings (verbal or points) from me than your whole alliance combined. Please tell me again about this bias. I'm assuming it's because you think I'm in an opposing alliance such as Rose, since I was just OOC attacked on IRC by one of your members claiming that I was forum user Oblige, while verbally assaulting me with homophobic slurs. Your lot wonders why moderators identities stay anonymous. Prime example of why Sheepy made the decision to do it that way.

 

I agree, we may have acted swiftly on the locking the thread and issuing a warn for spam when we *could* have just moved the topic. I will propose to the other moderator that your warn point be removed.

[Isolatar]

Hmm. What's the best way of creating drama on the forums and make myself look cool. Oh I know, I'll make a post that makes a lot of people hate the mods for no reason. That's going to work!

 

Seriously Mensa, you're not special. Stop acting as if the mods have something against you. I assure you, they don't.

[LordRahl2]

I will agree that moving the topic would have been a more appropriate response, but it's likely the lock was a kneejerk reaction, just like much of the bellyaching and drama in this thread. Buorhann is fun and has sharp eyes, but he isn't in Rose or DEIC.

 

Sometimes mods are human, too. They get emotional and make mistakes. Players are acting like a warn or lock has mortally wounded them, rather than simply moving the discussion to a more appropriate subforum or calmly requesting an appeal. Both of those actions would do far more for open discussion than throwing a temper tantrum which has taken attention completely away from the subject at hand.

 

I'm hoping Sheepy or another mod will move and reopen the thread, now that there's been time for people to calm down. But they are the authority here, not me.

 

Or maybe one of you could start a thread in Orbis Central. If that gets locked, then the caterwaulin can start.

"but he isn't in Rose or DEIC." Which is not against the rules. There is NO rule that even touches on the issue.

 

What I take the most issue with is the mod bias and the anonymity policy that they are hiding behind. Really if there is no bias then anonymity is not neceasary. What we are left with is, at best, the appearance of bias and, possibly, actual bias.

 

Let me lay out how this looks:

The thread was locked not because of where it was posted or who it was posted by. There were mods who did not like it because it touched on alliance affairs they, for ingame and personal reasons, wanted to keep silent. Therefore they abused their power and locked it. They can swear up and down that the above analysis is not true. However, it is certainly a valid and possible, probable?, way to view how this went down.

 

That is the real issue here.

[Wayne]

Hmm. What's the best way of creating drama on the forums and make myself look cool. Oh I know, I'll make a post that makes a lot of people hate the mods for no reason. That's going to work!

 

Seriously Mensa, you're not special. Stop acting as if the mods have something against you. I assure you, they don't.

 

!@#$ YOU ISOLATAR!

 

I'm Special and you can't tell me I'm not.

 

Also, forum mods confirmed for bias, I got a warning point for calling Syrup a retard.  It's a known fact that Syrup is indeed, retarded.

[Mike Haggar]

"but he isn't in Rose or DEIC." Which is not against the rules. There is NO rule that even touches on the issue.

 

What I take the most issue with is the mod bias and the anonymity policy that they are hiding behind. Really if there is no bias then anonymity is not neceasary. What we are left with is, at best, the appearance of bias and, possibly, actual bias.

 

Let me lay out how this looks:

The thread was locked not because of where it was posted or who it was posted by. There were mods who did not like it because it touched on alliance affairs they, for ingame and personal reasons, wanted to keep silent. Therefore they abused their power and locked it. They can swear up and down that the above analysis is not true. However, it is certainly a valid and possible, probable?, way to view how this went down.

 

That is the real issue here.

Bias is always impossible to completely remove. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Anonymity allows mods to take actions that strong alliances may not like. If their in-game identity is known, then they are more likely to cater to the whims of their alliance leaders and the foreign policy of their alliance. For example, if a known mod belongs to an alliance that wants to befriend another alliance, they are much less likely to warn gov members of that alliance.

 

It's up to Sheepy and the mod team as a whole to determine partiality. It's an imperfect system, but the best one that the community can get with the resources that we have.

 

Already above, you can see Thor admit that they could've reacted differently, and it's likely this will be discussed on the mod forums. So time and cooler heads will prevail in the end. Stay patient and allow the mods to do their unpaid jobs.

 

The only advantage I can see to public mod identities is that players can gang up on mods that they disagree with. Tyranny of the majority is not impartiality.

[LordRahl2]

Hmm. What's the best way of creating drama on the forums and make myself look cool. Oh I know, I'll make a post that makes a lot of people hate the mods for no reason. That's going to work!

 

Seriously Mensa, you're not special. Stop acting as if the mods have something against you. I assure you, they don't.

Who said anything about MENSA?

[Kemal Ergenekon]

Hmm. Can someone please explain me why this thread hasn't been locked or moved then? https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10725-god-emperor-dio-brando-is-bored/page-1

 

After all, it was started by a Vanguard player impersonating Mensa HQ.

[Mike Haggar]

Hmm. Can someone please explain me why this thread hasn't been locked or moved then? https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10725-god-emperor-dio-brando-is-bored/page-1

 

After all, it was started by a Vanguard player impersonating Mensa HQ.

Ah, a valid complaint. Although this is Vanguard recognizing war on Mensa. Buorhann again, isn't part of either of the alliances he named.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Mike Haggar

[Thor (Former Moderator)]

Hmm. Can someone please explain me why this thread hasn't been locked or moved then? https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10725-god-emperor-dio-brando-is-bored/page-1

 

After all, it was started by a Vanguard player impersonating Mensa HQ.

 

This was posted by a government member of an alliance, recognizing hostilities with another alliance. Sure the format they used was that of an announcement from Mensa HQ, but it's a lot different than the 3 word post that was locked.