Geronimo

Actually, it's not gonna hurt my argument since it's non-violent crime. No one hurt in the process, which will lead to questioning the law in the first place. Why would we punish someone for doing no harm to society?

Decriminalizing drugs will also push down the crime rate to the level we have never seen before because most of the crimes committed nowadays are drugs-related.

Yes, it's accurate if you only count the Middle East countries on the map.

I've never stated all Arab countries, though. I simply stated most of the Arab countries are based on sharia law which is true.

I'd like to bring this up again because I'm quite familiar with the issue as someone who studies Islam in Indonesia. First of all, ComradeMilton was quite right pointing out the fact that Muslims in Indonesia are quite different than the rest of Muslims in the world. However, it's more of because Indonesia is a secular country, it's not based upon sharia law or other Islamic laws whatsoever. Secondly, the vast majority of Indonesians practice the moderate form of Islam. Muslims in Indonesia are very different than their Muslim counterparts in other parts of the world, especially the Middle East. Muslims in Indonesia have long renounced the troubling and violent parts of Islam, unlike their Muslim counterparts in the Middle East who still practice those sorts of ancient teachings. That what makes Muslims in Indonesia are a bit more relaxed than the rest of Muslims in the world.

Unfortunately, you're wrong about that. Most of the countries in the Middle East are based on sharia law and by no means seculars.

I suppose this would be another Comrade Milton vs Rozalia thread. I've been a fan of such threads, though.

What about Islam? Should it be held accountable for the chaos in the Muslim world and Middle East in particular?

I can see you coming from more of capitalistic view, Laissez Faire Capitalism, right? But let me ask you a simple question, will you not be bothered if you find your fellow human beings suffering? Are you just going to pretend that how nature works?

I liked your gif above, but I'd be liking it more hearing your reasonings why healthcare shouldn't be seen as a right.

In my humble opinion, you're just going to ensure the reformation that supposedly takes place in Islam fail to happen by doing every single word of things you mentioned above. What you proposed above is going to scare the moderate Muslims, the vast majority group of Muslims that we need the most to reform Islam from within. They will likely align themselves with the radical or extremist ones should we implement your sorts of solutions to the matter. The animosity towards each other becomes imminent, the cultural gap will be widened, and the clash of cultures will become inevitable, are these sorts of things you really want to see?

Welp, you tried to alter the focus of our discussion here. I'll address the issue you brought up above but first I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier, does criticizing Islam consider as a form of attacks towards Islam and Muslims in particular? I know that the US currently has a sort of terrible foreign policy. I completely agree that the US shouldn't act like the world police whatsoever and the US needs to stop its interventions in other countries' affairs. Also, to some extent, I agree that somehow horrendous US foreign policy does help breed the violence and extremism in the Muslim world. However, to put the blame solely on the US for the rising of violence and extremism in the Muslim world isn't a sort of discussion we should be going.

I don't think criticizing and scrutinizing equal to attacking them, though. What did you mean by "attacking" then?

Liberal, -14, -54

Why don't just expand it to single-payer universal health care so that all people can be covered regardless their economic status? No poor people should be dying because they can't afford to pay the health care's bills anymore. To be honest with you, the way you described health care as a privilege disgusted me to some extent. Do you not have any compassion towards those who can't afford to get health care? I think health care should be considered as a right for all people. Thus, anyone should be able to get it whenever they need it.

Here where you got wrong, I've never claimed that all Muslims are terrorists nor did I ever say that all Muslim should be held accountable for the violent acts done by their fellow Muslims. What I tried to argue was that we and liberals, in particular, need to acknowledge the violent and troubling parts of Islam as a religion rather than to shield it from any criticism and scrutiny. In my humble opinion, excluding Islam from any criticism and scrutiny doesn't contribute well to our public conversations.

Again, you're simply being intellectually dishonest. I think the so-called crazy Christians and the Alt-Right movement are intertwined in one way to another. I'll list a few news published by Breitbart (the so-called Alt-Right media outlet) showing their support towards their Christian counterparts and their values. Trump: Christian Refugees ‘Horribly Treated,’ ‘We Are Going to Help Them’ WATCH: Students Support Religious Freedom for Muslims, Not Christians Christian Leader Sees ‘Spiritual Battle’ Over Trump Presidency

I think there's a growing number of liberals supporting the idea of having sort of public discourses to scrutinize and criticize Islam taking place in public. I don't think it's fair to paint all liberals with the same brush as their regressive counterparts. I think we're pretty much on the same page in regard to Islam. I do have sort of disgust towards the violent and troubling parts of Islam. However, we have quite different views regarding our approach towards Islam. You seem to like going hard against Islam and Muslims in particular. While I'd rather go soft and have sort of discussions with them regarding the troubling aspects of Islam. I believe we can finally push many Muslim scholars to renounce many troubling aspects of Islam. But first, we should be able to sit together with them and discuss these matters, rather than isolating and ignoring them from any public discourses that might help us renounce many troubling aspects of Islam.

You don't have to lecture me about that, though. I'm pretty aware of such differences in these two religions. But nevertheless, thanks for your time replying to my post. I personally think that these two are quite identical to each other. I don't think Christian alt-right does any better than its Muslim alt-right counterpart in regard to attitudes towards gay people, women, and other minority groups within their own communities. Even though I have to admit that Christian alt-right is less extreme when dealing with gay people, women, and other minority groups compared to its Muslim alt-right counterpart. However, it doesn't make them any better than its Muslim alt-right counterpart. As I've stated earlier, I personally can't see the ideological differences between these two other than their beliefs in Supreme Being and how they should live their private lives, which supposedly aren't a part of our political discourses. I think you're being intellectually dishonest here. You're simply ignoring the fact that Christians had bombed abortion clinics in the past along with other violence such as persecution towards gay people which is still going as of today. However, I do agree that Muslims bring this sort of ignorance to a new different level of extreme than their Christians counterparts. I sort of agree with your assessment that the overwhelming majority of Muslims isn't going to condemn any violent acts done towards gay people and other minority groups. However, I don't think all liberals are ignorant to that fact. Currently, there's a growing number of liberals who encourage and endorse a public discourse to criticize and scrutinize Islam taking place in public.

In all honesty, do you think healthcare is a right or a privilege?

Let's just repeal and replace Obamacare with single-payer universal healthcare.

I mean, why don't they team up and burn the whole world together?

Geert Wilder lost the election. Nothing much can be discussed regarding this. His approach to Islam isn't a kind we need to address the problems within Islam. I'd love to have more of public discussions to tackle the problems in Islam, instead of demonizing the whole group for the acts of certain individuals within that group, though. In my humble opinion, having more of public discourses to address the problems within Islam will be the best kind of approach to Islam. Isolating Islam and Muslims, in particular, will only breed more and more violence and extremism. It's about the time to push the reform in Islam from within. Let the Muslim scholars renounce the violent and troubling parts of Islam from within and not otherwise.

I think the OP raised a valid question. Both Christian alt-right and Muslim alt-right are pretty much on the same page. The only difference between these two is their beliefs in God, though. These two almost hold the same views regarding matters of gay-marriage, abortion, cannabis legalization, etc.

Why don't you just make it easier to help the poor by establishing a law for such a thing? And just to be clear here, I'm not a religious people. But, I do love some ideas within Christianity, especially those who encourage us to help the poor.