Roquentin

I mean, you can just look at who's on the other side and it's a lot cognitive dissonance holding it together while we've always had to deal with these types of situations and extra vilification. The fact that we finally reciprocated the ill will on the same level doesn't mean we started this trajectory. Epi's posts show we're not the bad guys here. I'm mainly talking about KERTCHOGG/tS/TCW/NP. We don't really have an investment in the other people. Or how about Commonwealth didn't say anything and the assumption by that was they'd do something anyway? It's TCW's fault it will be prolonged even more because they literally pulled the worst possible move for peace in attacking us and the NP stuff. They could have easily deescalated things.

You acknowledged there was progress made and Keshav even did some of the wording. You tried the "NPO is bad" thing again even though the breakoff point of the negotiations is something two of those agreed on. Just keep in mind. If two parties are negotiating a settlement, there has to be something in it for both sides. If you don't like the demeanor, then you have to try to tone your own stuff down.

Again, why are we going to be super easy when you've been clearly antagonistic and peace is 100% in your favor? Had you been conciliatory at all, it would have been different. This is the thing again, you know an easy peace is lop-sided in your favor. The fact you know that someone is undermining it means you won't accept anything. So for instance you're citing people who support the bond and you rejected it flat out. That's not going to work. You've posted super hateful comments at us since before you even went in and you have Leopold who escalated the issues we had beforehand in gov again. Don't try to pretend you're innocent here when you've been constantly antagonizing us for the past 7 months. Even now, you resorted to gimmicks and stuff and it won't get you peace either. The pandora's box you, Sphinx, and Akuryo have opened is going to ensure there will be no peace.

Violations of Treaties For one, you didn't inform us about TMC until after we hit and we agreed to limit to one round because of your loan and protectorate of them. Fark was planning to hit them anyway at the time as noted by Shifty previously. ES: You didn't really raise real objections and it was resolved fairly quickly. The objection to Demacia was Gorge taking stuff from BK, which you're now bragging about when you said there was no proof. George was the leader of Demacia, so the alliance was attacked until he left. Is it invested in Orion? Just keep in mind now Demacia and Pantheon are on the same side. Did he give their bank back? There was enough intel about Weebunism going in and there was some militarization in IF. You never approached us about them and they approached first and declined a NAP. Tom was given the opportunity to sign a NAP.. Actions detrimental to the game and insults to friends and allies You literally wanted reps until it would extend the length of the war. You had proposed terms yourself before. Again, the war length was acknowledged but that was because you just didn't like a long war. You wanted Rose to release Hwan's funds even though they have a policy on deserters while chatting them up. Except you knew the goal of Coalition B going in to those talks and you only started dissenting/undermining by telling other people about it which killed any traction for the terms as they knew you weren't insisting. This removed any leverage and encouraged an atmosphere of no progress. We can't cause any communities to crumble just by doing a war not anymore than stealing a bank, hitting people when they rebuild, etc.. It's ultimately if it's a genuine community then the people will stay through thick and thin and not give up because of any war length. At the point that it was clear further consolidation would happen on their side and you made a new bloc with a new supremacy clause and were trying to sign with more alliances, we had no reason to think you'd be 100% with us if we went with what you wanted. We tried to work out any concerns and we just got static most of the time. We're not going to peace and be on the hook when the war started over leaks just because they hate us more for your convenience. That's suicidal. This was before any leaks too. The reports are kind of even more intrusive than asking for OWF censorship. People had some questionable content and could have removed it. No one's gotten banned on a first offense afaik. Length of War They basically didn't do anything and protested being asked to carry their weight. The propaganda value of them peacing was super harmful and it severely harmed us. Also I'm glad you acknowleged that he wasn't actually going to disband them. Also you did say that Carthago couldn't peace even if they wanted to without tS. I mean, I don't really care if it's that the case but it's your motivation in large part here and why you felt a need to restore its reputation. We were hoping that people would use the experience to be less averse to wars. You weren't called out in the Coal B server in an open channel. You were asked about it in the leadership channel. We don't take kindly to people saying we're the worst and etc and pinging everyone to read it. kalev literally liked EM's post against your ally even though you yourself were saying he was flaking on loans and were previously critical of his actions. Funny how you only tended to talk about this part in terms of the economic motivation.. That's really never how you qualified and I'm pretty sure you've used the phrase "grind into dust" yourself". At the end of the day you still kept talking about how they just ditched you as deadweight until it became more convenient to say you like them again now and it's only at the price of selling us out. It's the only way your consolidation with Coalition A will work ultimately, though which is another reason why we aren't going be throwing in the towel ever. Are you saying our coalition was dilapidated or theirs? We didn't use you and you were treated as an equal partner every step of the way which is you were in the highest channels and now you have the luxury of logdumping us more like Gorge.

lol Everyone would be doing that as is if that were true. None of these alliances involved initially including your own had 3k infra at 20 cities. It's not at all. You have no idea of the lack of applicability of such a comparison each time you make it. Not bothering to delve into this further as it's straying further and further. You can just ask in TGH's channel why they didn't have 3k infra before the war

No, because that's not how it happens. In case you haven't realized it's not really a problem for us in particular. If you barely have to fight for years and just sit on high infra then you will get the money, especially if it happens after the collapse of the only opposition. The only way high infra like the 3k or whatever is feasible is if you don't fight. If anyway you still don't fight but sit on some infra for a long time, you will still have more money. All of the richest alliances have of history limited warfare over the past 3 years until Knightfall and even then, it was a very minor speed bump. Because they're having to play dirty pool to get any impact. Keep that in mind. We could have simply done the same thing when partisan did his activation request and started hitting acadia/upn with ground battles and navals. You guys have thrown all the rules out of the book and it's not a victory for you. It will never be.

There are very few people who could make a dummy account in bknet. That's all I'm going to say. I'm not sure why your co-leader said what he said if you keep pretending it wasn't the case. He would have said simply otherwise if it's the one I'm thinking of in terms of "conspiracies."

Again, that's not an unpopular view it's a conspiracy theory toxic people on your side have thrown out. BK didn't think it was losing. Keep in mind we have nothing to lose no matter the battlefield equations. It's all going to be real interesting from now on.

I mean I don't think you get the outcome of Sphinx and Akuryo's little power move here. If we all beige each other who's gonna hurt more people that like having infra or people that don't care and like to war indefinitely? Hope this will suit you. I'll stop on the subject but I'm just going to spell out that you've personally helped open the door to something really fun.

Tom had Elder rachel go to Leo and say the bloc would not come into effect until post-war. The mobilization was happening so something was still up but that was the official line. If your own representative gives a different line then it's contradictory, Regardless of our issue isn't with the bloc language but rather that we always acted in good faith towards Sphinx and he didn't with us in enabling and using it as a way to get at us. That was after the screens leaked from their bloc channel about the plans. I don't think anyone antagonized TCW over it before it was rumored they were doing something and hat was after they pretended to be busy and wouldn't respond to queries about the rumors. I don't recall anything like that being said at all until well after it became clear he was doing something. If he had issues over the cultural stuff and reports, then there's that. But yeah this whole idea that we were awful to TCW and so on is just BS to justify your 180 on him because it suits you.

It was your bloc's stance. The escalation by TCW was willful and no attempt to avoid it was made. It was an aggressive war launched by TMC and NP to begin with.

You do realize they said the bloc only applies post-war? Timeline goes again, TMC/NP hit BoC en masse triggering Camelot MD. Reps are refused despite being a nominal sum. No attempt at resolution was made by Sphinx at all. He just ignored everyone on our side who said NP/TMC should just pay the 350m.

Alex has allowed it. I wasn't keen on everything like that being automated originally but he opened the door with yoso's original bot and then TKR made one and then it goes on and on. BK cleared their bank system with Alex over 3 years ago.

Um yeah that was in response to Sphinx saying he'd be ready for us throwing in the towel after he literally aggressively attacked us.

Oh he got to build out of range a while ago. More TCW have been able to build higher infra and puff up due to the side switch. This will be profitable for those particular nations. kalev will get to buy some more stuff for sure. Well that is until he has to beige other nations in his bloc lmao and get beiged due to the current meta. The closest was maybe saying KERTCHOGG was down and out definitively and not a threat. I didn't agree and I knew enough people were just a discord ping away and would strike at an opportune time.

He didn't end up on Coal A's side by intention dude. They had been looking to pad infra. If this is about Sval that is.

He's saying now because it looks better. You do realize he's left wars early before right? With Sphinx, you can read all the upper leadership logs about it. If he had moral objections they were never really clear. He was happy to see TKR in bad shape. So yeah, that is what happened. i can't remember the specific place. There's a convo where Keegoz says he can get people to agree to surrender 6 month NAP when Sphinx was talking to him and then it didn't happen and you dug on the basis of people leaving the war. That showed your attitude.

There were no delays or anything before you peaced out. We were just going to settle for surrender/NAP and you didn't want to fight for that. Keep pretending to be dramatic and all when you even told me that we weren't trustworthy and this also doesn't even touch on your little plot earlier in the year lmao Can you point to anywhere in the logs where he said that?

The channel was renamed after it was rumored TCW would hit. That's what it was about. You don't have to take my word for it. Ask someone else. re Partisan edit So yeah, none of these people are exactly humanitarians or anything. You have all our logs anyway for most of the time and you can find out. In most of the cases, we could have warred KERTCHOGG to the end of time with no objections as long we let them sit out and profit disproportionately.

Like which? Carthago ran out of stuff and they didn't want to fight for the surrender term. el chach was pretty vocal that he thought we were too hated to get a surrender and should just accept white peace. Sval never said anything and has had a grudge for a long time and he has a history of ditching wars early. TCW: Not really moral. The arguments given were that TCW was unhappy due to war length and that they couldn't make enough money to buy more cities so more people would be at the highest levels. These were the primary ones given. They saw the war ending as a net financial gain. That also ties into banking and other stuff. We at no point saw a moral case just that people were upset about the war length. List goes on.

Yeah, they know you mainly hate BK/NPO so they get to benefit from that. They had their own goals of what they wanted to do accumulation-wise and it didn't add up for us in relative terms. We never had anyone peace out on a moral basis. It was mostly not wanting to fight, not having stuff(we even gave it when it was needed, lol), and so on. We never had anyone give a real moral reasoning for peacing out. I don't think we ever really did anything bad to those alliances besides not wanting to white peace, not wanting to peace at x time, etc. We always explained our rationale calmly and people were onboard until they weren't.

I'l just mention one last time when you make your hatred towards a group clear and a peace disproportionately helps you due to structural advantages, there isn't anything it for the other side. The war did no real damage to you after a certain point besides delaying accumulation. It's in your interest to accumulate more and build on the structural advantages which makes them bigger, so peace is by default in your favor as a group. Throughout the war your group has talked being in good shape and how everyone else is relatively poor all and that's it. So if they both hate us and have wanted to hit us before and is a group of people that have a history of cooperation with relatively brief disruptions along with their structural advantages, we don't really get much out of just a mere peace deal. You wouldn't have given up 50b or whatever at any point in exchange for a shorter war. We don't see peace as an inherent good. There has to be something in it for us that we benefit from at least equally.

It's unauthorized access if someone put in a backdoor. If someone works for you and puts in a backdoor into a program they worked on and uses it to get in after they aren't there, then it's pretty bad. Was it naive to expect someone not to do that if they wanted to cross BK? Probably.

No. Any bot that is hosted would need a password potentially and Alex has allowed remote hosting for bots. There was even a service that offered recruitment bot hosting for in-game money. He didn't give it to anyone directly so they could access his account on their own computer/ip. It's in the system.

It doesn't really surprise that the same people who have actually tried to cripple alliances by trying to make them insolvent, have stolen banks or condoned it, bragged about deletion stats before, and threatened perpetual repeat hits so far are taking some sort of moral high ground and pretending BK deserved it when other people reciprocate the bad feelings. These are all things that ruin the experience for people