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Everything posted by Roquentin
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Well I can show you the logs, but they were told. It was a misunderstanding about what you were asking about. TheNG and Leo can confirm. I just want to know the specific incident where Leo claimed to be hacked before. What is even the context here? You've never brought it up before. Nice troll. Okay, so one side has a majority of the stuff going into a war, they get put on an infra diet. They don't want to be on an infra diet so they can get back to building on the advantage. They typically don't like fighting intensively with the highest infra nations for a long duration. They collaborate more often than not. The previous war was possible due to Rose, CoS, TEst, and some arrgh upper tier and most ended up being aligned with KETOG or swappable between KETOG and Rose. KETOG also included the two big upper tier juggernauts. With CoS on its last legs and TEst a thing of the past, there was no one left who had fought the whales in Knightfall outside of KERTCHOGG, so it would essentially be an upper tier hegemony. In this war we had TCW to substitute a bit but that's only because we fought KERTCHOGG first and then tS. Since I knew tS had no intention of fighting KERTCHOGG and wanted to hit our side instead at a later date, it was essentially a stacked deck and it would continue to be a stacked deck as a unified whole that just always gets to have vast amounts of infra and only fights people not in the upper tier or vastly outnumbered. You get to go back to your beloved infra pumping and we get to wait for you to make your move. Zero benefit. Get it now? The only way there's any benefit for us if we get something in the peace deal because we know there's ill will and we're the primary recipients. We don't really mind fighting indefinitely, so peace has to be incentivized for us not to be signing a a carte blanche to further entrench your structural advantages when it will screw us to do so. This becomes an even bigger issue with TCW on your side. We derive zero benefit and you institute your own megabloc. You are the only actual people who have consolidated so much in the past to completely outgun the rest of the game, so we know what you're like. The negativity throughout the war has provided us with no incentive to just hand you the keys to the city. We're fine with everyone within the non-expansion burning together since we all have issues with each other so it works for us.
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I did forward it. I'm tired of your bullshit claims.It was forwarded to the NG and Leo and they declined. Simple. It's not on shifting sands. You gain everything by peacing with no conditions and so on. We get nothing and a ton of ill will anyway. That's dumb as hell. Again, bullshit. There was unauthorized access and the ayybank/BKnet is legal and was always cleared by alex. This type of bullshit you spew is really bad. When did he pretend to be hacked before? You keep saying it but you've never backed it up. You told people it was about terms when Leo has never had that happen.
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We don't have that many alliances lol. I've already explained our position re:peace. There's just nothing in it for us in it of itself. It's just been you guys want to codify that peace is always good because that suits you along with the short war stuff when it's harmful to us. I mean any group would try to make stuff that benefits them into the common morality, so you guys have done a good job at that but we know that the morals here with regards to in-game stuff are just a representation of the individual interests of each group/alliance.
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If they get hostile yeah.
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And Sphinx knew right and he wanted it to happen? I mean, obviously they took issue with some aspects of your scheming and I know Camelot was upset over Seeker but there was at least an opportunity presented to make things right. At least one alliance offered a way we could do something for them. It's not meant to be a one way street. We're willing to back people up when they've backed us up.
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There were underlying good relations. They're old friends. It was just they didn't trust Kayser as much. It was easy for it to all go away with a "Roq manipulated us and have at it".
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Those are all really contradictory. Those wanted to go their own way without us and we still have to deal with you. With CoA it's pretty funny, but they would have to actually follow through on rhetoric and they were just too focused on following tS. We've gone over OWR and Carthago before. They didn't want to fight to win, so they bailed and we did criticize Carthago for not trying but we did try to sort it out and we always supplied them when needed. With both OWR and Carthago they never really had positive feelings towards us even before the war, so it was natural they would try to screw us. With TKR again, their members/gov were pretty openly antagonistic and there was no real way it was going to work out. The town wasn't big enough and there was too much unresolved on both ends and the Chaos signing was seen as pretty aggressive. I"m not really sure what you expected to happen? They didn't really care. They just didn't want us to help Coalition B so keeping us out was the goal so they set the conditions and they thought it'd be a short excursion and BK would get wiped clean.
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You're pissed off anyway. You've been pretty clear the entire time with your stances. You've always said this anyway. You gave us no choice but to reciprocate your negativity. What did you expect?
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Yeah, I mean it's not like we don't have people confirming Sphinx made this plan with Akuryo to set us up by beiging all the whales and the crap George pulled. There's just no words for that.
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We didn't. They think it's easier that way and most of them talk to each other. It's pretty ridiculous what an old boy's club it is. They hated Sphinx less than they did us and he saw an opening to get back in their good graces and partner up with as many as possible flip flopping on EM, protecting George, Rose, getting Don Juan to join and the list goes on. You don't know how cliquey they are.
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This is funny considering your AA now. It has nothing to do with IQ or whatever besides the fact that we actually have rapport with one side over the other. Coalition B was never going to be able to handle it on their own and was way more fragile than KERTCHOGG. It's a bad peace given we're shouldering the flak given the origination point, so we won't peace with people that made it clear they feel most wronged by us while they retain their structural advantages. That's really not productive. We won't be on the hook and waiting for them to come while your alliance gets off consequence-free. It wasn't. There was little in terms of political motivation or objectives. It was a 2nd best to doing what happened anyway after. Stop pretending otherwise. It doesn't ring empty given you're even signing Rose most likely. I'm expecting Rose to sign more people too on the same side and it's been rumored for a while.
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[agreement] Interstellar - Opus Dei
Roquentin replied to Spartacus (Interstellar)'s topic in Alliance Affairs
Gov was hostile. Gov does various hostile maneuveurs that directly and indirectly harm us. You had plenty of chances to work it out with us. You didn't and you frustrated any attempts at mediation. Members were hostile. No hate? lol -
[agreement] Interstellar - Opus Dei
Roquentin replied to Spartacus (Interstellar)'s topic in Alliance Affairs
The justification for the escalation was that relationship with tS coming to an end and it was clear the sphere was no longer viable when they signed Carthago/OWR and that was their powerplay. Their hostility both before and after and actions taken like the TEst protection indicated they would likely indeed fight us when it was opportune. The impression was that it was over as it was already discussed with HS as tS being bad at ending the relationship. We had reasonable suspicion they would convert their passive aggression into active aggression later on. -
[agreement] Interstellar - Opus Dei
Roquentin replied to Spartacus (Interstellar)'s topic in Alliance Affairs
Um, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary. I don't know anybody that tells their ally "haha i can listen to the voices in my head lke you" or intentionally undermines them constantly. I didn't convince myself. The hostility with tS was palpable. If he wants to seek a separate negotiation we can work on that. It's on the table as part of the comprehensive settlement. -
[agreement] Interstellar - Opus Dei
Roquentin replied to Spartacus (Interstellar)'s topic in Alliance Affairs
People were upset with James saying in private that he wouldn't hit people and then he went in a contrived fashion. This feels like deja vu, but it would have been negotiated down probably. -
[agreement] Interstellar - Opus Dei
Roquentin replied to Spartacus (Interstellar)'s topic in Alliance Affairs
I meant on your side. With Church of Atom yeah, since we didn't want them to get involved. With everyone else not really except like HS/Soup/Farksphere/a few others, there's longstanding hate so it's not really productive. -
[agreement] Interstellar - Opus Dei
Roquentin replied to Spartacus (Interstellar)'s topic in Alliance Affairs
I mean here's the thing James is you jumped into this without any real obligation. We never tried to antagonize you. We just wanted you to sit out. We never said you were ruining the game or anything. We just couldn't stomach getting insulted constantly by tS and having them undermine us militarily. So why won't you just peace separately if you want peace? That's the thing is we haven't prevented alliances from peacing out. The war is no longer about any of the original things so anyone staying in on your side is deciding to stay in for its own sake. -
Good thing no one ever listens to you. Not even TGH in this war. Our starting coalition were mostly micros and other weak alliances that would have been happy if we won on day one and that's it. We were never going to be able to appease most of those alliances. They wanted it too fast. No one cares about that. A bad peace is worse than war - Tacitus. People that are tough enough to handle fighting the reconsolidated EMC should be funded. Again this would have been a million times worse if we let these people pull this crap months from now. That's why it's the lesser evil to have it happen now. There has been no potential for anything else to happen because they've solidified and with Sphinx's powerplay where apparently he was going to have the whales beiged anyway acccording to new intel just shows the level of duplicity these guys are up to which makes us look relatively angelic. So we have no real incentives here. The whole playing possum aspect was a good trick that pulled the wool over people's eyes and at this point third parties may eventually see that it's just mutual hatred playing out and if they have no investment in it, then why pay attention?
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[agreement] Interstellar - Opus Dei
Roquentin replied to Spartacus (Interstellar)'s topic in Alliance Affairs
You have an equal number of backstabbers. Guess it's just convenient. Virtue is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. -
Not really. I think you don't particularly get the reasons why people dropped out, They dropped out because it was too hard to keep going. No one has been under threat that didn't do something in some way. You can pretend everyone is getting violated sovereignty-wise, but you literally are condoning multiple bank heists with your side's embrace of Gorge, all the shady stuff Akuryo has been involved in, Sphinx/Alexio wanting to bankrupt Chaos, embrace of deserters, and so on. It's more suicidal to be at peace with people who has made their agenda clear. The fact that nothing matters to your side besides just hate of a few alliances means you will always be blinded to anything else. Again this is why we don't think your side is ever honest, you're using nation counts just like at the start of the war. If you were really downtrodden, there'd be no hope no matter what the intervention this late in. You made it out to be like the alliances were beyond repair, and so on. Like I said you staged a passion play. Where your nations are tiering-wise is the most important factor. You've always used this justification to mess with us/BK/etc. We can't retain "allies' that want to play on easy mode. It just never works and in every war that was shorter we've always lost the weak-willed. Stop pretending otherwise. So yeah after the North Point crap you guys are pulling, it's at the point of no return. You're playing a game of chicken and expecting us to blink and it's not going to happen.
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So he did go into it with unauthorized access. I'm not sure iwhether there was a way for him to see admin stuff and get Leo's pass though. That's the question. I didn't say you were Hitler. I said that you were everything wrong with the game since you kept wanting to bail to just play farmville and no one believed the 50b or whatever was yours. They're just flattering you now when they don't really like your playstyle either. Feel free to find the logs. Keshav was mad when you broke the deal yeah, but he had even agreed to the NAP.
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Yeah sorry. Maybe the topic can be split?
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We didn't intend to draw it in. The NAP didn't cover TMC in our eyes as TMC was not signed before that and TMC was the aggressor. They were on bad terms with Fark wehn the NAP was done and started the BoC thing. Okay let me break it down to you: we were never going to eliminate effective opposition. By giving an easy peace that allows enemies to consolidate and build on their structural advantages, it was simply suicidal. Whenever they eventually reached a settlement, they would still be in good shape and have tons going for them. The rhetoric from their side has indicated their long-term intent and thus we have no reason to make it easy for them. They hate us and we are reciprocrating the sentiments. They did a passion play and made themselves out to be completely crushed forever when it was never the case. They are in decent condition no matter how long it goes or they wouldn't have the energy for this. This would have just happened some period after a peace deal, so it would have been entirely stacked in their favor. Some people have been more upfront in acknowledging that. Again, it's not. Peacing in this situation when they're doing this stuff just means it's even more slanted in their favor going forward. If they resorted to gimmicks to try to win, then they're going to have to deal with the outcome there. We derive no benefit from entrenching their dominance and letting them get something they want.
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Um they started it and when they were countered the plans they had leaked. He was trolling. I didn't say it wouldn't be endless. The continued use of the gimmick is why we have no real reason to peace along with the other reasons. Someone is playing with a loaded die and peace is what they want. We don't have any incentive for peace until we actually get one. If people are using the friendly wars to their advantage, why would we accept that? It's entirely slanted in your favor. We just derive no benefit from peace so it's not going to work for people employing the gimmick.