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Caecus

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  1. i think its quite telling that you equate one losing war with the total failure of the 'paperless bloc'. i suppose it actually explains a lot of how/why you guys think what you think. we lost a war shut er down boys!

     

    Unless you can somehow beat "10 to 1" odds the next time around, yeah, paperless is doomed without any change. And if you think somehow the Syndisphere will just leave you alone after this, you've honestly been on the same side for too long. 

     

    Also, the incredible irony of our argument just a couple days ago. Turns out I was right about that argument then. Where is that fool of an oaf Ole, speaking of which?

  2. This article completely fails to understand anything about any of us or why we do what we do.

     

    We aren't interested in being your salvation, we have no interest in replacing Syndisphere and their stupid sphere politics, and we are exactly where we would prefer to be in terms of politics. I would rather war TKR forever than spend one minute listening to your bullshit cowardly concerns in some bloc channel somewhere.

     

    Understanding your alliance was never the purpose of this post. On the contrary, I could care less about the paperless reasoning. I'm simply stating the natural conclusion of what the paperless policy has led to, and offering a prediction of what might happen next. 

     

     

    tldr of OP's post: TEst's fighting with GoT/ Nuke bloc et al. left them without any viable allies and they will likely be forced to abandon paperless.

     

    Well written post, and also correct from the perspective of military campaign. However I feel you managed to sorely miss the point. TEst are suffering not from a failure to make allies, but from their own ideology. In order for an alliance to ally with TEst, it is not TEst who must convince the other alliance, it is the other alliance that must convince TEst. Pre has high standards for allies and only competent leaders are worth working with. You can probably see that the policies of those outside of Syndisphere do not appeal to those standards.

     

    This exclusivity is the fundamental ideology of TEst, and you can see how well it has worked for them, remaining as the most prominent non-Syndi aligned entity. I believe that deviating from this line of decision making would have ultimately surrounded Pre with more conflicts such as Rose/ Valyria and Mensa/ SK, and any potential conflicts that may arise with NPO.

     

    So with that in mind, you can see exactly why TEst has suffered in this war. The lack of allies is not attributed to the failure to court them or rally them, but for the potential allies' failure to prove competent.

     

    Side note, the paperless sphere hasn't died, this conflict just means they lose a war, but that doesn't equate to total failure. They made some questionable decisions in fighting everyone outside of Syndisphere, which has partially contributed to their rolling. But it is their independence and ideology that leads them to those fights, and the current war, as with every war, is not a result of policies themselves, but of specifics. Lordship and Pre falling out was what actually triggered this conflict I believe.

     

    TEst didn't have to get allies, it was just one of the options following the Silent War. What I was expecting was TEst et. al. to keep a low profile and not present herself as a target. By rolling alliances outside of the Syndisphere, TEst failed both options, both by pushing away potential allies and increasing their overall profile. Mensa et. al. members can correct me if I'm wrong, but TEst's recent wars put them on the radar as being "big" and powerful. Without knowing the specifics, I can only speculate. 

     

    Also, you are correct, it is too early to say the paperless sphere has died. But I would predict that the paperless sphere will undergo policy changes in response to this war, either by getting closer to the Syndisphere (a more and more unlikely scenario considering Pre's disputes on the OWF) or by opposing them and assembling allies to form a new bloc (papered or not). But perhaps even more likely, TEst et. al. will remain steadfast to the ideology of paperless, leaving diplomacy to be their only defense (i.e. expect more rollings). 

     

    Another possibility I could see happening is a sort of Syndisphere purge, where the core alliances of the sphere push out fringe treatied alliances to reform the realist paradigm. That's going to be a salt fest. 

  3. Interesting read but I wouldn't put all of your eggs in one basket (war) where the paperless system failed. For example, the next time a block is rolled you could very well substitute Test for [instert name here] and produce the same argument that blocs just make you a sitting duck.

     

    Maybe it is smoke and mirrors and maybe it's not. It will take longer than a year to fully judge the concept. The real truth however is that if test bends away from their paperless beliefs on the basis of this war, then their opponents won in the long run.

     

    I believe TEst (more so than any other alliance post Silent War) was in the best position to rally a new bloc, so it's a tad bit different. Everyone else in the war was too exhausted to lead a potential coalition against the Syndisphere. I also pretty much warned this would happen to TEst due to her position being outside of the "papered" sphere. 

     

    Also, what made the paperless system genius wasn't that it was paperless, but that it adapted to a very specific circumstance in the interalliance setting that allowed TEst flexibility and to thrive under those conditions when the rest of Orbis suffered casualties in the prolonged Syndi-Rose wars. By stubbornly sticking to a paperless system (which, from my perspective is obvious doesn't work anymore), it goes against the doctrine of what made the paperless system genius in the first place: flexibility, adaptability, and concentration of strength. 

  4. The obverse reaction to that is simply that TEst fights who they can match. we were looking at pantheon as a target since the merge to test out the spartans. it was the first war with me and Hidude as squad leaders. We want a good fight, so we thought pantheon would do so. We have active nations because we're consistantly at war. For example, before test i had 13000 infra destroyed. a month later, i have near 50k. we're active because leadership keeps ourselves on our toes. Strategic planning at this point and before was not needed because we have no goal. We literally have no goal, but to have fun. if we rise to the top because of that, then we're doing it while we're having fun. As for the Syndisphere response- We'd lose. We'd lose hard. You kid yourself if you think we'd even be able to put up a fight.  Back when TEst fought Alpha, they had 23 members. that is 23/20 vs 21 at the time.

    As it stands we wanted a challenge. Nothing more, Nothing less. i would say that pantheon had the ability to fight us. they gave some of us a run for the money. They alone can match us in upper if they were practiced.

     

    Happy-go-lucky attitudes and the "Pre and his band of merry idiots" view of TEst generally doesn't include a strategic "discussion" that took place allowing TEst/Roz Wei/Arrgh to hit Pantheon without any military response from tS. I can believe that the mentality of the average TEst member is different from its leadership, but to blanket all of TEst as happy-go-lucky bellum-taxis rhinos is, I think, a step too far. As for the Syndisphere's response, it's honestly hard to tell without the events actually happening, but in light of what happened in Steve's War, tS doesn't feel too confident about their upper tier. It would be an interesting match up though, in light of Alpha offering to 1v1 tS before Steve's war. If I had to put money, I would put it on TEst. 

     

    He got a leadership position, because we didn't have anyone else with experience with time at the time. I would have taken it up myself to help out. I mulled it over. I had too many life problems. i moved from california to minnesota and back to california alone in the span i was in vacation mode. He is a good leader by my standards. You have to make choices you don't like for the good of your people. Sometimes that means cutting the fat, and i've had to do things like it in other games as a leader. 

     

    I don't WANT to be a dick about this, but you have to see it as i do. I understand your position, and i understand why you think it's connected, but coming from this side, i don't see it. i have asked and mulled over this too. I was in Sparta. i was a big member in sparta. for a time i had the most nukes in the world. I had access to information about this and everything else. Seabass knew he messed up and showed a lot of regret for it. Especially when alpha was hit. 

     

    No, I believe you and Seabass. Frankly, my rhetoric was intentionally abrasive to garner a reaction. Seabass spilled his guts in an honest way, I have to respect that at the very least. It's hard for me to actually believe a conspiracy when Seabass could have said literally anything else and it would have deflected attention. Sure, I could have continued to press for a reaction, but Seabass could have easily kept denying anything and everything and I would have had to take his word on it. The fact that he wall texted everything at the first mention of it lends him a bit of my respect in a twisted, uncomfortable way. 

     

    I just don't think solving internal problems by faking a drill, suiciding the alliance, and all the while involving your allies was the best way to go. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the only way for Sparta to "fix" itself was to intentionally commit political suicide. Whatever the case, as a history degree-seeking candidate, I'm sure you would agree that avidly pursing alternative history is a boundless topic that neither of us have the time nor interest in. 

  5. The only thing seabasstion is guilty of, is caring too much about us. Sparta was bloated. i was a member of it. The people who left after the restructuring were the whales feeding off of it. 

     

    And you believe that the only way for Sparta to "fix" itself is to purposely suicide itself and merge with TEst, despite explicitly saying that you voted against the TEst merge? Seabass's "caring" is an interpretation that can only be justified post-facto and depends highly on the outcome of the events. If Seabass had simply suicided Sparta and failed to merge with TEst (and be where you are now), your view wouldn't have the same justification. 

     

    It doesn't strike me as a reason for TEst to strike alpha. But when someone leaks you saying you're going to roll TEst after Sea announced publicly that he messed up, that becomes an issue of security. PandW is not (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). It doesn't have reason or rhyme. I spent the entirety of my time in Poison Clan learning that. looking at these events as a whole overarching theme shows you that. i've looked at the same thing you have, and i've seen the same thing you have. and i think it's asinine to say that out of everything, that these events are connected more that coincidence. Why? Because if you look at each and every one separately, and really dive into them, you see that there isn't a reason behind TEst attacking alpha. TEst is an alliance that doesn't NEED a CB and one that LOVES fighting. 

     

    I've never played (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), probably won't ever. Don't know why you brought it up in the first place. And I also agree with you, I've even said in the previous posts that Pre's statement about the Rose leak being influential was not for CB reasons, but because the leak clearly showed Rose and her allies inability to defend Alpha should TEst roll. 

     

    If you also read my entry (and the shorter posts in response to Seabass), I no longer believe that Seabass was deliberately maneuvered into a position of leadership in Sparta to screw Alpha and her other allies. I do, however, think he is incompetent and short-sighted. Even by your own post-facto standards, you can't possibly deny that his drill did a lot of damage to the sphere that Sparta was a part of (not to mention Sparta herself). 

     

     

    Secondly, seabasstion is a lovable oaf. He's currently chewing me out for having to get stitches as a result of being in the Shellac Squad. He also was close to me during the Sparta, and held Alpha in high regard. He never said an ill thing about alpha, and quite liked you guys. We had plans to help you out, but we didn't follow through with them because we were restructuring and you were piled on before we could move to declare.

     

    I'm sure a lot of people, both in TEst and Sparta previously, can testify to his character. Hell, even Steve was warm (and I assume still is) when Seabass announced that he was stepping down. Never saying anything ill about Alpha is irrelevant to me as a writer. Whatever the case, Seabass failed to inform his allies of the drill being faked and that drill cost the entire bloc resources and time that resulted in Alpha's destruction (and later, arguably, the whole bloc). Seabass lied to his own leadership, the leadership of his allies, and his own alliance membership, to which he blatantly said in Pre's entry that he wanted to destroy Sparta and purge her leadership to merge with TEst. Regardless of what happened after, that still is treasonous, not to mention a major conflict of interest.

     

     

    Thirdly, The events seem to coalesce with our "Rise to power" but TEst is already behind three or more alliances militarily. What you see is us being strongest among the wounded. we were 7th place before this war started. now we're second. why? Because we stuck our noses elsewhere.

     

    Again, I would argue this is part of a strategic calculation made by TEst's leadership. In my previous entry, hidude454545 even admitted to a "discussion" between TEst and the Syndisphere which led to tS deploying military resources to counter Alpha, instead of honoring treaty obligations to Pantheon. Partisan blatantly deflected my questioning on the matter. While yes, it's true that TEst is in pure numbers weaker than tS or even Rose for that matter, TEst's power resides in a strong, active upper tier. tS knew of the 100+ nations they had pre-Steve's war, only around 20 of them would be able to fight with Alpha on equal ground because of the nation score limitation. TEst is what Alpha was on steroids. Almost 50 upper tier nations, thrown in any direction, is a win. I don't think even tS and all her little micros could win in a conventional fight against TEst simply because of that.

     

    TEst has historically entered in on wars that directly weaken alliances with strong upper tier nations and has benefited in some way, either through a post-bellum merge or scattering those upper tier nations and diluting their power. TEst is the only alliance right now with more than 30 active upper tier nations. Excluding combat experience, response time, and military stockpiles, TEst still dominates the upper tier simply through sheer numbers. The wars and events TEst has been involved in has always led to positive growth of the alliance in that upper tier. To call those events disconnected and coincidental is missing a larger picture of TEst's long-term strategic planning. 

     

     

    To be honest I hold alpha, Especially Steve, in high regard. He's been there for my banter in non-grata for quite some time. Alpha i see as being downtrodden at the moment, but it will recover. At the same time you should take the fault you've been given and learn from it rather than be salty about it. Steve and Pre working together would quite honestly be my dream in this game.  It's a shame that it's currently not the case but i still have hope for it. 

     

    I'm not salty, I'm just baffled at how Seabass could have ever gotten a leadership position. Seeing the disastrous effects of his leadership (for whatever little gain you perceive came out of it), I would like to see that the next person thinking of giving him any real power consider how badly he screwed his own allies and his own alliance, the later being deliberately. 

  6. "Alpha wouldn't be alpha without a scapegoat"

     

    I assume you stopped reading what other people wrote in pre's blog after your last post that I replied to was thoroughly refuted. Even Pre admitted that Alpha's position would be radically different if it wasn't for Seabass's drill, unless you disagree with him, in which case by all means, present your evidence. 

     

    Unlike Pre and Seabass, when you lose an argument you don't stop posting, you pop up in another blog to post unfounded quips to try and score points. Well, I see your ignorant quip and raise you an actual intelligent argument. 

  7. you can call me all the names you wish but in my eyes the members of sparta are in a much better place now. my allegiance and responsibility has always been to them. part of that responsibility is recognizing that i am not the correct and best leader for them (nor was jim beam), and that being under a 'sparta' badge is not a necessity. i killed the name 'sparta' - i didn't kill the alliance as a whole. a lot of us are actually closer now than ever.

     

    But you felt prudent enough to not tell anyone in your own alliance about your goals. You acted on the belief that you were the only one who knew where Sparta "should be," and you knew that people wouldn't go along with your ideas, which is why you went through so much subterfuge. But I digress, it's irrelevant what Sparta's members think of you now. 

     

     

    i was a cofounder of sparta and stayed there every day until the merger. i have no idea why you keep thinking i was part of guardian during this but i urge you to give listening a chance and begin to accept that people arent lying to you at every opportunity.

     

    if you really need proof though, just look at my bank records. alliance ID 1861 was sparta. i only went around a month without bank access. the drill was end of april, i had bank access again by may 31st

     

    again, im not sure where you are getting guardian from and im not sure why you are trying to convince me that i went there after the drill. or why it even matters if i did.

     

    You're right, it's a red herring and I have no idea why you brought it up in the first place. I've already changed the post, to better reflect the evidence I have. 

     

     

    if you choose to interpret my actions which were solely rooted in making sparta better as a direct or indirect threat to alpha you are free to that opinion. if that makes me incompetent and short-sighted than perhaps that leads credence to my argument that leadership was bad under sparta and would be better served with another person at the helm. one of the best traits i have is knowing when and where my skills are deficient and im cavalier enough to do something about it.

     

    would it have been better for sparta if we plowed ahead under poor leadership? retaining all the disorganization,  lackluster members, and band aid fixes? or would it be better if sparta cleaned house, reorganized, and got a new CEO? you are choosing to view sparta fixing itself as an indirect threat to alpha? i think a bigger threat would be to remain the wet paper tiger that we always were.

     

    if it makes me a bad guy by valuing the wellbeing of spartan members more than alphans than i am a bad guy. i never pretended to be the 'good guy' here. im the guy that made a hard and difficult choice for a failing alliance. i slept perfectly fine that night.

     

    Oh please. Your vision of a "better" Sparta was to run it into the ground and merge with TEst. That's like saying you should amputate your penis because you got gonorrhea. If every alliance decided to suicide itself and merge with TEst every time their leadership was "poor," TEst would be its own bloated bloc.

     

    You also could have addressed the "Spartan" problem without involving the rest of the bloc. If you were really looking out for the well-being of Sparta, you wouldn't have had to lie to half the sphere and your entire leadership about it. Don't cloak yourself in righteousness when its obvious what you did was your own selfish vision of Sparta being "in a better place."

  8. no, i never left sparta until the merger. again not sure where you got guardian from.

     

    also when you say

    "I now believe that Seabass was an independent actor who wanted to weaken Alpha's allies"

     

    i hope you can notice the plural form of ally that you wrote. when you pluralize something it implies more than one. so beyond sparta, which i guess is technically ally of alphas that i tried to 'weaken'  (something i had admitted in my first post on this subject), which other allies of alphas did i intend to hurt?

     

    this isn't a complicated subject and im not sure what you are looking for or what the point of all of this is... just because the outcome of a situation doesn't favor you and your alliance does not serve as evidence to a big conspiracy against you.

     

    in the event it's not clear yet - i'm not looking for credit on the alpha destruction as it was never my intent. you are absolutely correct when you say i dont deserve credit for it

     

    i suppose i dont really care either way. if you want me to be the mr magoo of the alpha destruction to help you cope ill be happy to take one for the team. i dont really care what my label is. just let me know what you eventually settle on so i can update my diary accordingly

     

    I remember you stayed in Guardian following the whole drill debacle, though I can't prove it since your nation logs don't go back to April. 

     

    Sparta is an alliance with multiple nations, thus the plurality. I can see how that may be confusing, so I will change it in my post. 

     

    I already point out that there is no conspiracy, just one leader with a conflict of interest that so happens to give an alliance he is colluding with a perfect opportunity and excuse to roll your ally. To put it more plainly, I don't think you are stupid or a genius. I just think you are a selfish traitor to an alliance you deliberately led into the ground and to allies you swore to "[not] threaten... with actions or words; directly or indirectly." Though I suppose, in the context that you intended to keep your word when signing with Alpha, that makes you incompetent and short-sighted. 

  9. I actually never left Sparta. Not sure where you got guardian from.

     

    Also you can't say I had deliberate intent to weaken alpha and their allies while simultaneously saying there was no conscious genius to it.

     

    If you're going to continually point to this as the event that served as the catalyst for your destruction; say that I was purposefully doing it to hurt alpha (see also : narcissistic paranoid crazy talk ) then I should rightfully get the global manipulator title. If my goal was really was to hurt you guys and this directly led to your destruction - well that's a pretty big feather in my cap.

     

    Unfortunately for me my intentions were exactly as I stated earlier. I care very little for fa and thought very little of alpha pre, mid, and post drill.

     

    I'm not trying to persuade you, mind you. Just if you really are going to attribute the drill solely of my design to destroying a sphere with intent to do so, you need to go all the way and claim me to be the biggest puppet master in the game. Thanks!

     

    "Alpha's Allies" = Sparta. You tried to "destroy" Sparta. Again, I think it's all a happy accident. No conscious genius on your part, don't give yourself credit you don't deserve. 

     

    Also, didn't you go to Guardian after this post? https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12297-sparta-announcement/

     

     

    Again incorrect :P. We hit Alpha because we had been presented with plenty of reason to believe that Alpha was actively trying to isolate us (and, if placed in a position to do so, roll us.

     

    I understand that opinions are split on whether this was actually the case. Personally? I continue to believe that it was. It makes little sense to rehash that though as it does not matter: Alpha moved in a way that we perceived as a threat to us, and therefore we acted.

     

    The Roz Wei/SK matter in the previous war was the catalyst to our initial fallout and our cancellation. Stuff occurred after that which would prompt us to actually attack.

     

    Thank you for the clarification. I misinterpreted your statements in the post as the Roz Wei/SK incident being your main reason to go to war with Alpha. I've fixed it in the post. 

  10. I didn't think Steve was going to ask his allies to sit out. I thought your allies jumping in to the fight would result in some of them leaving being your allies after the fight though. I imagine Steve thought the same thing and that's why he asked them to sit out. If anything I thought it would result in politically isolating Alpha a bit giving them less ammo to come after us without a CB. 

     

    You don't think I should have thought TEst was gonna get rolled hard? Look at the last two times a paperless alliance supported tS in a major war, Roz Wei got railed hard because there was no penalty/counters for hitting them. Arrgh had that happen against UPN and friends before that. Not hard to think that TEst would be viewed as the low risk target due to less counters. 

     

    I finally found it. God, it was buried under all that shit. https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12330-press-release-from-the-syndicate-on-alpha-and-recent-events/?p=232159

     

    My memory from the Rose leak was actually a little hazy. I thought only Rose wasn't going to fight, but the leak alluded to VE and UPN being hurt by the demilitarization as well, which meant that your alliance was probably looking at a Mensa HQ/tS/TEst vs. Alpha/NPO fight at the worst case scenario, a match up that would have been roughly 2 to 1 membership-wise. Not to mention one side is more militarized than the other. That's got to be easier than a weakened Pantheon v. TEst/Roz Wei/Arrgh. Asking allies to sit the war out was the only good option, in light of our situation. 

  11. Because both sides expected you to fight for them, or at least not fight against them and their allies. With TEst we're free to support any cause we want. Neither side expects our support unless it was already promised. I'm not stupid enough to promise my support to both spheres during a war.

     

    You were constantly in both spheres. We're in neither sphere. You view these things as the same, they are not.

     

    But this conflicts with what Partisan just posted. You are essentially saying that the papered treaties force us to remain in the confines of "both spheres." But Partisan just said that tS at the time was ok with Alpha entering on the side of Rose against Roz Wei, so it is obviously a more flexible arrangement. 

     

    "Neither sphere" and "both spheres" is a matter of semantics. Of course, I would still argue that requires a more intimate relationship than Steve had. In fact, I would argue that papered treaties give a more valid CB, since you would be citing the first clause and not randomly jumping in out of the blue. Though, I suppose it does mean that Alpha could not directly engage either Rose or tS because of the treaties, but that limitation is not too relevant for alliance interests anyway. 

     

    Also,

     

     

    Also, why isn't this blog showing up on the dashboard anymore? 

  12. No Twists, i just figured if you are to present something like "The Rise of TEst" you might write something accurate or atleast borderline based upon actuall events.

    But ill have to say, it is flattering, atlest some of it. We come off more nefarious, than i tought we were and thats nice.

     

    You know, the more I argue with Pre and Partisan, the more I am proving your statement wrong. If you want to try and deflect criticism that is true, make it less obvious by not appearing really salty. The best way to go about it is to be sarcastic and joking, like Pre and Partisan in this blog. 

     

     

    The Devil indeed did sell his soul to Prefontaine.

    True story.

     

    Children in Uzbekistan also fear that Dr. Kourin is hiding in their closet at night.

    If you say "Lo Pan" in the mirror three times while the light is out, I will appear in the reflection.

     

    All true.

     

    So this is where you went! And here I thought you were going to finish reading Seabass's post on Pre's blog and apologize to me for being a total idiot. 

  13. We were perfectly fine with you entering in Roz Wei. We were not okay with you entering on SK after you had promised the former. Keep trying though.

     

    As for Pantheon: I was not government at the time and have not been involved in coalition planning. I'm afraid I therefore do not know enough of what happened in backchannels to be able to say much about it. You're better off contacting tS govt for that.

     

    So what you are trying to say is Alpha broke its word, but you never did and when Pantheon got rolled, you technically didn't break your word because you had nothing to do with it? 

     

    It sounds like if your ass was on fire, you would be the last to know in your alliance. I totally believe that a former gov member would be entirely excluded from "coalition planning." Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that tS wrote down on a sheet of paper to defend Pantheon and then wiped its ass with the treaty in the Silent War. You can't stand at a moral high ground when your alliance violates the first damn clause of the treaty. 

  14. As a critique of the paperless system, I would like to point out the relative high fixed cost of entering into the field. Paperless is most effective when there are two spheres primarily focused on each other. Your most dangerous situation is being dog-piled by one sphere without the other sphere to back you up. Thus, the high fixed cost of going paperless is you have to not only have "strong, active leadership," but also very strong personal connections to both sides. After all, paperless is ropes of sand if you don't actively maintain those personal relationships. 

     

    I don't think paperless is for everyone. It's extremely high maintenance and your alliance has to be in a more powerful position overall. TEst's domination of the upper tier, combined with Pre's six cups of coffee every hour, makes this policy work. At most, VE's going paperless is more an indication of the collapse of Paragon, not an actual imitation of TEst's foreign policy. If it were, VE is very woefully unprepared for the necessary actions and consequences of going paperless.  

  15. Uhm... that wasn't the issue for us. It was the breaking of one's word.

     

    Weve been over this bud.

     

    So when you said your alliance would defend Pantheon from aggressors, you weren't breaking your word? Granted, I didn't read the treaty, but like almost all treaties, I assume it had a mutual defense clause. I don't know what would be in there otherwise. 

     

    Again, Steve should have had a closer relationship so that you don't feel "betrayed" when Alpha came in on the side of Rose in the 168 Day War, we've been over this bud. 

     

    To your "isn't TEst straddling two spheres" comment. Yes and no. We're willing to work with anyone who's goals line up with ours. If our goal is fighting x alliance for x reason, and another alliance wants to fight alliance x for y reason that'll work. We will work with alliances who help give us what we want. We will also fight for a cause we deem worth while, even if it doesn't benefit our political aspirations. Sometimes a cause is enough, sometimes personal gain is enough, sometimes just doing it for fun is enough. We straddle two sides because there are only two sides that contain most of the players in this game. If we didn't we'd limit who we're working with and we make it clear to people we're working with what's going on. We don't try to play both sides, we try to benefit whatever side we find ourselves on at the time, or whatever cause we find ourselves behind. 

     

    So, why is Alpha's "straddling of spheres" a bad decision? It obviously works with TEst. Is it because the "straddling" used two paper treaties instead of backroom channeling? 

  16. I do not believe that that CB would have been in any way beneficial to Pre/TEst in the political environment at the time. Specifically because he could not have done anything with it without prematurely smothering his own ambition in its crib unless The Syndicate+sphere were to act. 

     

    There was too much risk of failure. The plan would also strain TEst-ParaCov/Alpha relations (if it was as you intended). Given that TEst victory would be dependent on tS cooperation/initiative, TEst in its relatively isolated position at the time could not afford to risk being targeted without immediate, tangible benefit.

     

    I believe I have already addressed most of what you said, either through posts here or my own blog. There is a lot that I have said, so I don't blame you for not having gone through it all (though it is a bit ironic that I'm the one with the walls of texts). 

     

    At this point, I no longer believe that Seabass had deliberately used the drill to benefit TEst in the way it did. I believe my quote was "there was no conscious genius on [seabass's] part" that the events played out the way it did. What is obvious is that the drill did lead to a weakened state of economic and military readiness (of which, nobody here has yet to argue against) which TEst and the Syndisphere subsequently exploited to their advantage. 

     

     

    There's also the following hole in your assertion:

    - You assert that Pre's rise was a calculated move to the top.

    - Shredding PR to place your numerically small, upper tier-centric alliance in the vanguard of what might be the catalyst to a global war is a surefire way to incur proportionally higher losses than the rest of your own coalition.

    - Provided that this was all part of that plan to rise to he top, Pre would have known that following the final defeat of paracov, he as a third party would be more likely to find himself at odds with us (naturally speaking).

    - With that in mind, it would be a sign of incompetence for pre to deliberately place himself in harms way to roll Alpha, weakening his own position moving forward, when he might as well sit around and hope for us to shred one another in time (which had a decent chance of happening, given relations between us).

     

    - And I still do.

    - Again, the outcome of the drill and the Rose leaks gave TEst enough information to make a calculated decision that a war with Alpha (and tS in the tow) would stay just that; and it would be a quick and easy victory. 

    - I likewise addressed this issue in a previous blog post about TEst's strengths and weaknesses, this being one of TEst's weaknesses, and it is solved by one of its strengths. 

    - But the events didn't play out that way. Again, through carefully calculated FA and basic arithmetic, TEst has risen to the top. You are entirely excluding the factor that TEst probably has a direct line to your bathroom (and enough top officials on both sides to be in between the two spheres at all times) and is savvy enough to use those connections to achieve its goals. 

     

    Actually, the relationship beween myself and Steve wasn't bad at all prior to 168. It is the conduct within that (war) period which aggravated relations and ultimately led to our bad break. I'd rather not get into much detail this time since I don't feel like another WoT-battle.  :P

     

    I wasn't saying they were bad. I was saying they could have been good enough for Alpha to tell tS that Alpha intended to come into the war on the side of Rose and for you guys to not leak the information or freak out. Perhaps the phone in the bathroom deal that TEst has with you. 

  17. Honestly here's how that whole war would've likely played out had those logs not leaked. Syndicate declares on Alpha. Alpha's allies declare on Syndicate, counters counters etc.. TEst would have likely fought Sparta when/if they entered the war. But I've been trying to focus on TEst's involvement in this blog. 

     

    Well, I would argue that there wouldn't have been a war in the first place without the drill. Sure, one would have eventually come along, but not at that time and not in that fashion. 

     

    Mind you I thought we were going to get rolled hard by your allies countering us. Sure we'd win in the long haul but I figured Syndicate and TEst were gonna take a sever beating. I did try to dissuade Sparta from getting involved. 

     

    I find this statement hard to believe. You are more than politically shrewd enough to know that, with the militarization of the Syndisphere behind you (not to mention their response time), a counter from our side that had just recently demilitarized after the announcement from the drill was not prepared in any fashion to effectively counter fully militarized upper tier nations, much less deal with the rest of the Syndisphere. 

     

    To reiterate, the Rose leak was very influential on us. I don't know what you would have done had the seabass thing not happened, because I didn't expect the seabass thing to go beyond a military drill. 

     

    I'm sure the Rose leak was influential. It indicated that Rose might not step in to defend Alpha and that it was in a state of exhaustion and unpreparedness from the drill and the last war. I think you made a political calculation (that was correct) that Rose and the rest of the sphere were in a worse off position than the rest of the Syndisphere and that Rose would back down. 

     

    Seabass's drill had scrambled the entire bloc to mobilize, and immediately following the announcement that it was faked, have that entire bloc waste resources and time and demobilized. In contrast, the Syndisphere starts mobilizing the next day. If Seabass's drill hadn't happened, those days and resources would have leveled out the playing field between the two blocs so that a conflict between the two wouldn't have been such a forgone conclusion. Again, I hate to sound like a broken record, but I think Seabass's drill played a huge part, intentional or otherwise, in the events that played out and without Seabass, the Rose bloc may still exist today. 

     

     

    I still blame Alpha's fall squarely on Alpha making bad choices, starting with trying to straddle the spheres. I !@#$ed a ton about that when I was a member of Alpha. 

     

    Isn't "straddling the spheres" what  TEst's current political discourse? TEst has entered on both sides of the last couple of wars, and I assume maintains a closed-door relationship with both the former Rose bloc and tS. The difference between TEst and Alpha is that Alpha decided to put things on paper, so it offended tS when Alpha countered on the side of Rose. I think that you also have a more connected relationship with both sides, to the point where TEst was comfortable in negotiating their entrance against Pantheon and for tS to divert resources to fight elsewhere instead of upholding their treaty obligations. If you had to blame Alpha's leadership for anything, I would argue that Steve should have had a better relationship with Partisan when entering in the 168 Day war. Though, in my previous arguments, I would say that is a unique trait of TEst's political savvy, and not an indication of failed leadership by the rest of the world's standards.

  18. The merge was a mutual agreement, not some manipulated plot to undermine Spartan leadership into joining which is the way you are creating your own spin. You say you are a history major, yet you are creating your own false narrative on that particular topic of events. The only deception on Terminus Est's part was not announcing t the public that both Sparta and TEst were discussing a merger for a couple months before we actually did.

     

    Obviously you didn't bother to read Seabass's wall of text, so I'll let you do that real quick before you say something stupid again. Or mine, since I never explicitly said that I was a history major (I was responding to big boss)

     

     

    First time we talked about merging was probably about 6 months prior to the merge. 

     

    The reason we went to war with Alpha was Rose's forum leak showing their allies felt Alpha was wanting to fight TEst without a CB. Which is something Seabass or myself had no ability to control. 

     

    If anything Seabass had a grand scheme to merge Sparta into TEst. Alpha used a biproduct of that plan to express interest in rolling TEst in some form that gave Rose leadership the impression you'd roll us even if the "leak" was just due to a training drill I was helping Sparta with. The reason we attacked Alpha, was because of that. Give us a reason and be an alliance we want to fight, and we will fight you. 

    Alpha's downfall was Alpha's own doing. Not some grand scheme. It was your failure, not our success. Alpha tried to straddle both sides of the web by signing both Rose and Syndicate. Alpha made an enemy of TEst. Neither of those moves worked out. I'm sorry that you can't believe that your leadership made bad moves and need to cover that up with the idea that I and others had some nefarious plot. 

     

    Again. It's your failure, not my success. I'm a guy that likes to brag about his success too. 

     

    There was a lot of confusion for Alpha initially. As you can imagine, when someone plots that kind of drill and then does a 180 so fast it breaks your neck, there was a lot of us who were thinking that Seabass's account was hacked. Everything about the drill was wrong. Why would anyone deliberately put their alliance through something so self-destructive? Anyone in a leadership position with the interest of the alliance and their allies would not have done something so politically suicidal. We now know it was on purpose. The natural reaction of Alpha was that Seabass had been hacked, and that TEst was just trying to save its skin from a major information leak. 

     

    Let's not play games here, TEst had already started planning rolling Alpha well before any Rose leak, you yourself expressed the desire of your membership to do so. The Rose leak was irrelevant, you could have dug up logs that said some lowly Alpha member talking crap and used it as a CB. TEst just had to wait for the right moment when the entire sphere was in chaos (again, conveniently from the "drill") before being able to jump in. You keep blaming Alpha for being a political failure, but would Alpha have really taken such a dive if Seabass's "drill" didn't happen? Would you have been able to find another scenario where TEst and tS were in a 2 on 1 against Alpha? Writing off Alpha's failure purely because of politics is missing a key event that shaped the outcomes that led to today. 

     

    Well if you really want to give little ol me credit for masterminding the demise of nearly half the game well shucks I guess I'll take it

     

    Whoa, let's not jump to conclusions there. According to your side of the story, you accidentally masterminded the demise of nearly half the game, no conscious genius on your part.  

  19. " "

     

    Well, let's go through what Seabass said. Seabass essentially said that Sparta, in his opinion, was weak and dead, and the drill was designed to decapitate Spartan leadership for the overall goal of merging with TEst. I may be extrapolating at this point, but I think his reasoning for not telling allies that the drill was faked was because other members of the Spartan leadership told everyone else about the "drill," and he was afraid that Spartan allies would try to confirm with other Spartan leadership that the "drill" was faked, thus ruining his plan for purging the leadership. 

     

    So, he wanted Sparta to fail and merge with TEst, and the drill was part of an overall plan for that to eventually happen. Regardless of his reasons why (which he makes out to be for the greater good of the rest of Sparta who are not pixelhuggers), it still doesn't change the fact that he betrayed Sparta. In light of his obvious motives and predispositions to TEst, is it such a leap in logic that another reason why he didn't bother to tell allies was because it could give TEst the CB against Alpha?

     

    As a history degree candidate, you should know that historians debate narratives ad nausem. It's the difference between determinists and fatalists, to put it broadly. My narrative has been that TEst's rise has been a very carefully calculated response to events and the shifting treaty web. That TEst isn't a "merry band of idiots," but an upper tier alliance that is heavily involved both on the OWF and behind the scenes to manipulate the world stage. The "drill," I would argue, is a very critical event in that narrative. TEst gets new blood and a CB to roll Alpha from this event, and arguably caused the downfall of the Rose bloc. 

  20.  

    To clarify Caecus's question. Seabass approached me about wanting some fake intel about plotting against Sparta. He apparently tried running a military drill without a threat which produced lack luster results, he asked me to help give a bump in the ass with some fake logs. I came up with the alliance announcement, screenshotted it and gave it to him.

     

    Here's a snipit or two from our conversation shortly after everything was made public by Seabass, because it looked like he was going to !@#$ me.

     

     

     

    The whole thing was Seabass. I was just trying to help him out. If he did use it to !@#$ me over, like I said in the logs I appreciate the move from a players perspective. I was going to have to destroy him down the road for it of course. But he came clean at the last moment affirmed what I had been telling people. 
     
    Also:
     
    [20:05] <Prefontaine> So.
    [20:05] <Prefontaine> How pissed off is Steve?
     
    You think it's a plan started by me. I thought Alpha might've had a hand in it way back when. It was just Seabass. 

     

     

    It's logical for you to think Alpha had a hand in it. The second Seabass approached you for it, my reaction would have been to call BS. The fact that someone asked you to fake logs that give a valid CB to half of the web on your alliance and told you to keep it between the two of you was probably the indication you might have been screwed. I'm genuinely surprised you even agreed to helping Seabass with a "drill," even more so considering your FA record before and after the incident. Hell, I'm so surprised, I don't think I believe it.

     

    You're telling me that Seabass, all on his own, decided to mobilize a multi-alliance coalition (and not informing anyone except you), psych that coalition out, place said coalition in a weaker economic and military readiness and conveniently give TEst the CB to roll Alpha? That it's a coincidence your alliance has for a while wanted a fight with Alpha? That it's even a greater coincidence he's currently in your alliance? 

     

    Seabass is either so incompetent that he accidentally screwed his own allies over or such a genius Trojan horse that I feel morally compelled to applaud. That makes you, Perfontaine, either so gullible that a "Nigerian prince" has already emptied out your banking account, or a master lever-pulling snake that puts Partisan to shame. 

     

    Only one narrative fits with your FA record. I can't say that I have been keeping such a close eye on Seabass for any period of time, but it also doesn't make sense that he ended up in Spartan leadership if he was that stupid. 

  21. The point isn't morality - every Green Neutral needs to be declared on sometimes.

     

    The point is reality. To continue the war at this point could have world-wide repercussions as instead of pushing the neutrals into involvement, they're pushing the leaders out of our world entirely. 

     

     

    No one benefits from that.

     

    I think the consequences of the war can only be speculated on for now. Whether or not leaders will leave the community, I would still argue that this "crusade" against neutrals is within TEst's interests. This war may push TFP into forming treaties and ties. My previous blogs have talked about TEst's strengths in its ability to stay between spheres and manipulate sides to enter wars that are to their advantage, so it is logically in the interest of TEst to ensure that no top 15 alliance is not aligned with a sphere and to maintain spheres in general.

     

    Also what world are you living in where TEst imposing a custom flag as the only peace term is "in their interest" beyond giving TEst leadership some pride points on successfully rolling a Pacifist alliance utilizing two other alliances (and now various raiders)?

     

    It's a humiliation tactic, I think designed to specifically nudge people towards more treaties and alliances to prevent it from ever happening. Again, it's in TEst's interest to maintain spheres. 

  22. To be fair, the premise of the game is international realism. The idea of somehow there is a just and moral methodology of politics in a realist paradigm itself is absurd. TEst's extraction of terms is a very rational act in their own interests, although in terrible taste to the rest of the community that has traditionally only forced terms on aggressive actor. War inevitably produces a victor -that climbs further to heights of power- and a loser, that declines. To somehow maintain the realist paradigm AND not have a hegemon, it requires something along the lines of an annual rolling of GPA by the community at large. 

     

    Like Perf said before, the critical difference between TEst and GPA is TEst is actively involved in maintaining political relationships behind the scenes. The GPA doesn't care enough to maintain any, and would likely not see an attack coming, much less prevent it through backroom dealing. It's highly unlikely, if not impossible in the current political climate, that TEst will ever find itself in the position that the GPA did, simply due to that difference. 

     

    Trying to somehow shame TEst into giving terms is probably going to backfire, tbh. They have power and they know it. They have strong political ties and enough inter-alliance savvy to know they could do whatever they wanted to TFP, which has no allies to back them up in the fight. 

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