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Y'all, seriously? This is a goodbye thread, not another one of the 12 million spots you have to argue in. If you can't be nice or don't have well wishes, don't participate. Leave them in peace.

Decagon, if you and Clock didn't agree with what The Syndicate and BW "did to you" at the time, then why didn't you do something about it? If you felt that you were truly "forced" into this, and you felt as though Syndicate had betrayed you, or some other bullshit, why didn't you punish them. Apart from that, as you've just admitted, this was something you wanted to do anyway, and based on the logs WANA has provided, as well as Keegoz's tone in the original logs he provided, where he put up literally no resistance, I don't really see how they forced you onto this. Circling back to those original logs, Keegoz claims that WANA officially made the hit on Rose part of the deal, but WANA, in Keegoz's own logs, quite literally says "If/When Clock hits Rose". That doesn't sound like a precondition to me, if anything, that sounds like, in Syndicate's eyes, you could have either chosen to hit Rose, or not to hit Rose, and Syndicate would have helped with the MysInc/Oasis war either way. The fact that you did absolutely nothing about this at the time, in my eyes, is a tacit implication that through this entire conversation with WANA, Keegoz got what he ultimately wanted, and didn't feel forced at all. The fact that you are only bringing up all this stuff now I think is really telling

I'll try to make it count. I have been increasingly busy these days irl and on top of that I am half managing a war, so please forgive if I am not completely on the same page. That said, when I see what the game is turning into... The agreement between Celestial and HW is a farce, and we all know it. They couldn't defend it on radio and have purposefully ignored the precedent argument in every thread I came across. It's clear what this is for, and that is to pixel hug. The two largest blocs/spheres are straight up arguing why they should not fight each other and actively working together to ensure the others cannot possibly do so (which was already pretty impossible to begin with). Then hit back at the community for criticising them about stagnation... Let's break down some of the arguments and I'll start with probably the most interesting part of this thread. Point 1: Clock has chained a war so therefore we're justified. Not really sure how to put this, but Clock didn't just preempt Rose for fun. Blackwater made it a condition of their support in the Myoasis conflict merely an hour out from our planned hit that was already agreed. Desperate (and sleep deprived) I offered an old plan of us hitting Rose post-minc hit. Wana formally made it a part of the deal. I do therefore find it kinda hypocritical to say that our actions caused this sphere MDP when t$ was the ones who forced clock into having no options. It's also extremely amusing that they screwed Rose over and then signed them immediately after. Should serve as a warning for anyone planning to work with t$, this is how they conduct their FA. Even if that wasn't the case, Clock has chained 1 war. I don't think you can argue this is a common Clock action and there is no proof to say we intended to ever do it again. For full disclosure, we had no plans to hit HW or Celestial. Point 2: We don't want to fight wars with similar people Look, in terms of points made by the two sides. I kinda understand this one, repeats are boring. That's basically where the sympathy ends. Celestial and HW have very much forced themselves into this political environment. They are the only two spheres who can feasibly beat each other, whilst they can easily defeat the rest. I don't see how you can call the community out on expecting that war when you have more or less created a scenario where that is the only fair war you can have. I also do not think you can complain that the community believes this environment is beginning to stagnate the game, because it is. If you don't want to fight certain alliances, well change the environment. Everyone else in the game has no feasible way of competing with your top tier and Alex has made it that top tiers decide wars. Point 3: We could have done this in secret, or made it less optional etc. or if you didn't plan anything why does it matter Won't spend much time on this. Those that applauded that this happened and more or less argued "Hey it could have been worse" are just a joke. Why does it matter? Well why does any of it matter? Can we just make moves because it's feasible that something could happen? Do we all sign MDPs when others go to war? Again the precedent set is terrible and will likely have a dumb agreement in a years time for alliances to "sign up" to never do it again. Concluding remarks The game is in a really bad spot at the moment imo. Politics is not healthy and we're once again seeing moves that have no consideration for the games health but *pure* self interest. Unfortunately as it is, the majors in this game also have, I would argue, a larger responsibility to keep this game interesting and healthy. Not doing so means that we might as well quit here, it is a game after all. To HW and Celestial, the game is upset because they want a fun game and you've banded together to create an environment which is becoming increasingly stagnant and stale. Laughing at them because they have no way of stopping you is a bad place to go down. We've seen it once and I had hoped we vowed not to see it happen again. Take the hint and be better.

OWR's disbandment has as much to do with losing the war as the flavour of Cinnamon Toast Crunch has on whether or not I wear fishnet stockings to bed. We had some great times trying our best to ignore this game's toxicity but ultimately we'll be better off as a community ourselves without this game constantly throwing wrenches in our attempts to mind our own business. We played this game for many years and we pushed through far worse in-game situations than this, whether you liked us or not a well adjusted individual would be able to appreciate that this isn't just a random alliance disbanding after its first war. A large number of our members have already quit the game entirely, most likely a few more will as well over the coming weeks. To all the people saying crap like "Good", you're part of the problem. People mass-quitting the game should never be a positive thing to the people playing that game, diversity in ethos is what makes games like this work, without it you're just playing with the same awful war system over and over watching the numbers go up and down. The game isn't special, all the best parts of it happen outside of the game between the people that play it. It's a vehicle for personal interactions and the construction of stories and it can fulful that role very well when people respect the fact that behind the facade is a group of actual human beings which have understandably developed a strong connection with each other and with the concept of their alliance over the many years it existed. We've seen kids go from school to university to owning their own houses within the lifespan of OWR, we've had people get married, have children, have their lives fall apart and rebuild them again, within the lifespan of our alliance and OWR was a rock through all of it because no matter how the real world treated you, you could log on to Discord and the game, and you'd be amongst friends. Regardless of your feelings about us, how we conducted ourselves or how we played the game, anyone who doesn't see the tragedy in the loss of that is a sociopath.

I'm still lost as to how an agreement to safely get to a lower MMR is being held as the same as or even similar to the Swamp-Oasis bloc-wide MDP against a potential threat. Does intent not matter anymore? Or for that matter the impact on the meta here, which is just to incentivize a shorter war among the combatants and not allow an easy dub on a demilitarized foe?

This is not true. We only considered hitting BK after the logs broke. You personally may have wanted to hit them regardless but there was never a plan to hit them prior to those logs leaking. The group chat that existed iirc was to discuss peace up until the point the logs leaked.

So, chaining Rose was a concession to T$ they wanted at the last minute. Your leadership knew this full well before this post by Keegoz, but then pretended it didn't so they could externalize all blame for their consolidation. There was no evidence or reason to believe clock would do it again. You're already the largest sphere, with 2v1 whale tier advantage over clock. Let's go over your "effectiveness of chaining into a demilitarized sphere". So what, spending hundreds of billions fighting another war is an effective way to reduce your infra? If infra shredding was so effective, everyone could just be selling it, hell, that'd be cheaper than fighting a global for it. And yeah, no doubt pulling a Rose isn't effective milcom strategy. Obviously you want to have your cake and eat it too. But your sphere had plenty of other alternatives that they didn't even try at before choosing to consolidate 60% of the game's whales against what probably was a non threat. Partial militarization is out, obviously, even though 2 buys from max in upper tier is likely sufficient. Because god forbit HW spend a cent on preparedness. Paying clock? Or hiring another alliance such as HoF, Circus etc instead of going full hegemon? Same issue, costs a shred of income. Spending some sort of influence or concession? Did your sphere even make the calculus that the reputational hit and blowback and from the MDP was less than what they'd lose to a lesser more palatable agreement? Essentially to achieve the same claimed goal of stopping clock from chaining? Trying to get accurate intel on clock's intentions? Effort. Blegh, why even do more FA with clock over their chaining when you can just do an end run around game threats by signing celestial. Your leaders say they want a fair fight, and then do everything possible to do the opposite and try to reframe a fully milled HW having a war of its choosing against a smaller sphere is fair.

Order of the White Rose Announcement OWR formally withdraws from Orbis. Signed, Sval

If you were that paranoid and scared of a chain from Clock, why not just stay milled up? Look at the tiering above ^ you instead decided to form a MDP treaty with the only other biggest and strongest sphere in the game? What kind of joke are you playing? is this how you want to move the games direction to from now on? this is rather disappointing. Remember though guys, clock is the bad guy here. T$ are the victims.

I feel like the real losers here are our friends in BR, they are getting destroyed in an imbalanced war they had no shot of winning. But here we are pages upon pages of fighting over a peace treaty between completely different blocs, and they are an afterthought. I see you BR, even if i had no idea who you were about a month ago.

I'll avoid making this too emotional but Sval many years ago we first crossed paths from OWR/HS, and from there we would play political tag allying on and off, but in the end we always did know how to find each other in the end. From getting rolled to doing the rolling I have known OWR and many if not a majority of OWR since the beginning, and for allowing us into your lives, community, and escape I thank you. Thank you for the laughs, cries (from too much laughter), the fun times, the bad times, and until the end. I've truly gained many friends that I will carry on with hopefully for the majority of my life, so thank you and thank you to the OWR community for opening your arms to me and house Stark. This isnt a goodbye, but instead until next time. o7 (love you benis & kabu)

Apparently this is an unpopular opinion but I don't see an issue with chaining if you're going to be fighting a bloc with a substantial tiering advantage. Is every other method to reduce nation score unfair as well? It does more than just make your stats look better, lower infra makes it harder to be massively downdeclared on. You're making yourselves undefeatable through any conventional methods and you're really complaining that a significantly smaller bloc might think of using strategies like this to stand a chance against you?

Seems it was addressed somewhat by His Holy Decagon saying "I don’t think we are? If it sounds nonsensical to you, it’s because we aren’t actually “crying foul” As far as I can tell, Keegoz leaked logs not to say "Ha ha! Wana bad and Clock is very victimized", but to point out it's ridiculous for Wana to say "reflect on your actions" when Wana clearly has at the least some responsibility for the whole chaining war. Now you can argue whether Clock needed to make that agreement to hit Rose but Keegoz reads as being pissed Clock is being used a scapegoat for a universally disliked FA move. I don't necessarily agree with Clock being "forced" into it, but I can see that perspective especially when they're being blamed for HW and Celestial "needing" to make this arrangement. Maybe because Wana gave screenshots from when the original conversation occurred we'll get more logs showing the entire conversation.

This is like, a schizophrenic-level perception of reality. Here's the downvotes on the HollyRo$e's announcement thread: Here's the upvotes in this thread to Keegoz's OP (after just 5 hours): This isn't a hard science, but the forum's reputation system is a good way of gauging community response to things. The community seems pretty hard against what y'all are doing, and are pretty happy with what Keegoz is saying. Bro, would it be easier for you if I just gave you my PO box? That way you can just write me a love letter directly and hopefully get you some relief.

I think it was pointed out by kev, but TKR chained from surfs up to hit Opus Dei in npo's last time and they stayed milled after the last ride, secretly formed HW and chained to blitz Rose in Guns & Roses. the notion that chaining is some new game breaking meta that needs to be shut down by the two biggest spheres is stupid.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. As far as I can see both HW and Celestial are still perfectly ok with the idea of chaining. We just didn't want it to happen to us, so steps were taken. I have not seen anyone call Clock out for chaining wars as a terribly negative thing beyond the point that it left us with a degree of uncertainty about their future intentions. Nobody is saying it is bad to chain wars. Clearly the pertinent questions surround the evidence and/or justification for clause 3. As far as doing anything about it, no-one need do anything which is made clear within the demilitarization agreement. I guess I can see how you've constructed this climate of fear about the future in light of this agreement. However I guess much like you believe we are unjustified to insert clause 3, I believe you are unjustified to believe that this arrangement is some sort of game breaking event. You're basically just catastrophizing for your own reasons. Finally, I do not see any of us laughing at the rest of the game not being able to do anything about this extremely time limited and specific arrangement. There may be a bit of banter aimed back at you given the vitriol that has come our way, but the sort of derision from us you're suggesting is non-existent as far as I've seen. Perhaps it is time to let your hard-on for this issue go for a little bit as it has clearly derailed your ability to reason. It is not like HW and/or Celestial have started a war and trying to tell everyone else how to play unlike what is coming towards us.

Yes Chaining has happened before and yes TKR has participated in Chaining in the past. I can't speak for Celetial, but we in TKR have seen the effectiveness of chaining into a demilitarized sphere first hand. Because of that experience, we didn't want to be on the receiving end of that exact situation. Clock has chained wars recently and we had reason to believe they would again. Hollywood believed we would be the likely target if it happened. We made a strategic decision to prevent that from happening to us while we were not fully militarized rather that remaining at full mil unnecessarily losing large amounts of income.

Can't speak for Chaos' plans, but for KETOGG, part of SU was because it was deemed to be the most feasible war as we couldn't convince Chaos to tag along for a hit. They were also seemingly caught by surprise with that war. People in KETOGG most certainly didn't go into it expecting a follow up war on BK.

It has nothing to do with a “fake war” - but I can tell you that the plan the whole time was to hit BK right after Surf’s Up. Surf’s Up was a way to curb boredom and also show what a minisphere-vs-mini sphere war would look like. That was all real, there is nothing fake about that. With that said - as soon as KETOG hit there was a chat between Chaos and KETOG leadership about smacking BK & friends - even without the logs (NPO came in later) The point borg is making with the chaining comment is that it has happened before with several wars and folks that are now condemning it - were fine with it. We received the “fake war” BS criticisms that NPO spewed and we (including TKR) defended chaining as just a part of the game and that the criticisms against it were weak (BK and friends complained about it in Dial Up & Rose and friends complained about it in GnR).

We are a macro..

We didn't stay mil'd up because it benefits us more to be able to reap the economic benefits of being demil'd. Given the past actions of Clock chaining, we decided to enter into this agreement to manage the risks of Clock trying to chain. This is an insurance policy. Insurance protects you from risk. The vast majority of adults willingly pay for insurance even if they never have to make a claim. I have not said we're the victims. Nor do I think Clock is the "bad" guy. I do not see the world in such a black and white manner. I know that Clock is unhappy with this move. Your unhappiness with this move is valid, even if you are distorting my character.

In case it is entirely clear at this point, let me spell some things out here for the broader community. During the lead up to the MO war, myself and Ataxia engaged in talks to de-escalate that conflict. This led to us getting cold feet approaching the blitz. In the Blackwater leadership server, BW leadership was debating the merits of going through with the hit. I relayed these concerns to Keegoz, and started a dialogue with him about it. Ultimately, I decided to offer Keegoz a deal that I thought would limit the negative externalities of such a hit. I asked Keegoz for a mutual guarantee not to aid HW in a hit against the other, and for plausible deniability if Clock did choose to hit Rose. At the time, and both my government, allies, and former allies can confirm this, Rose was not my concern, as I viewed them as a friendly entity. It was in this view that I wanted to ensure that the Rose-tS relationship wouldn't be trashed if Clock decided to hit them. I didn't want Rose to be hit, but I believed that Clock would hit them regardless of our involvement, and was correct in my assumption. Hell, as I mentioned before, I felt so icky about the whole thing that I even decided to tell Rose prior to the hit. During the time of the MO war, my biggest fear is that we would get hit by Hollywood. I understood that Hollywood was upset from Brawlywood, and wanted to try and avoid a repeat war. This is borne out by actions and words at the time, and I think Hollywood knew this at the time. Ultimately the MO war was unsuccessful at buying us cover from HW, which I think is fair to critique me for. Since I took over as FA Executive, I have had a strong working relationship with Rose, which ultimately allowed for the creation of Celestial. What motivation would I have had for trashing a relationship I had worked so hard to cultivate. Ask yourself, based on my relationship to Rose, why would I throw it away for Clock's benefit? It doesn't make logical sense. As for the current uproar over the HW-Celestial agreement, you can think of it as risk management and nothing more. HW and Celestial are strange bedfellows, with enough hurt feelings between the two to require years worth of therapy. The fact that this agreement could even get passed should tell you how seriously we viewed the threat of Clock deciding to chain. Ultimately, the ball is in Clock's court at the moment. The power to send this agreement to the shredder is in their hands. I do not desire war nor enmity towards Clock or its member alliances. You guys know where to find me if/when you guys want to engage in good faith dialogue.

When the DSM-5 is updated, they should include Syndicate as a case study under 'persecution complex', as you guys are a perfect fit for that, completely oblivious on how the community interprets your actions and denigrating legitimate criticism against the actions of t$ gov as "hating on t$". I've seen several t$ gov try to use the sympathy factor as a way to justify t$'s actions in stagnating the game. This doesn't wash, the fact that you fall back upon bad events against you which happened years ago as cover for your own shitty actions nowadays is quite frankly a joke. t$'s so called "bad treatment" over the past 2 years is simply an invention of t$ paranoia, and it pales in comparison to alliances like TLE and spheres like Oasis and Swamp who suffered far more than anything t$ endured in the same time period. t$ gov has no grip on reality, you could tell them the sky is blue and if they don't like the source it came from they'd disagree with you

Oh you beat me too this, i was going to basically say this in the other thread, but I determined making fun of BR was more important, and I didnt want to drag down my joke with actual content.

So we definitely got our wires crossed a bit here. I was under the impression you were saying we always planned to immediately hit BK after, like those ridiculous rumors that IQ was circulating at the time, hence the strong '!@#$ that noise' response. I don't remember it starting on day 1 but I do remember that it wasn't very long into the war that we started hearing rumors about BK wanting to hit us and were bringing up those concerns. And then when BK immediately launched into Nova after that whole scandal broke, that was another red flag because they didn't waste anytime at all with that and I can't remember if we thought this at the time but retrospectively, it seems like they were baiting us with that hit. Like you said here though, I'm pretty sure we were just discussing what to do in the event there was more substantial evidence (iirc Buor was trying to get hold of some more info) and nothing was definitive until those logs dropped from what I remember. And then it was go time.

I tried my best to prevent your creation -hollywood- from growing out of control. You !@#$ed up and yes, tS failed to contain your !@#$up. Many of the people who now cry foul also cried foul when tS did fight grumpy. TS owes you nothing. This is not our fight any longer. Go fix it yourself.

Ironic to criticise others for promoting self-interest whilst simultaneously promoting a vision for the game which happens to promote one's own self-interest. This game is governed by self-interest. Always has and always will be.

"The Peace in our Times Agreement" Preamble: In the interest of peace and mutual understanding, the two parties of Hollywood and Celestial enter into this agreement. Recognizing that at this time there is no Casus Belli between the two parties and as such in an effort to avoid a needless and causeless war, the two parties agree to enter into a mutual agreement of demilitarization. Article 1: The two parties, effective of the update of today, May 25th, in game time will demilitarize to the following MMR: 1/3/5/0 with the option for voluntary but not required 1 drydock per city based on the individual alliance's standard peacetime MMR. Article 2: Nations below c10 whose primary income source is raiding will not be affected by the limit of barracks in the standard MMR of this agreement and will be allowed a MMR of 5/3/5/0 or 5/3/5/1. Article 3: During this period of demilitarization in the face of the current ongoing global conflict, the parties pledge to come to the aid of the other if one party comes under the attack of a sphere that is already militarized. Article 4: This agreement will expire once the current spheres already engaged in hostility have rebuilt and returned to a standard peacetime MMR. Signed, Hollywood Sphere Leadership Celestial Sphere Leadership

For times sake, I'm going to keep this short and sweet. The Clock bloc has agreed to White Peace with the former members of The Andromeda bloc. Both parties recognize the good fight, and have acknowledged a more mutually beneficial path, going forward. "TERMS" 1. No new wars will be permitted to be declared between the parties mentioned above after 5-27-2022's DC. 2. Any currently ongoing wars will be permitted to end in whatever fashion the attacker/defender wish to pursue. This White Peace has been discussed, acknowledged, and agreed upon by the following bodies and their respective members: (*Art courtesy of Minesome) Clock, on behalf of Test, and all Protectorates, and all Extensions and those associated, CATA Co-Leader: HisHolyDecagon Co-Leader: TigerFire 2iC/Foreign Affairs: Keegoz Foreign Affairs: Cadn Eclipse Co-Leader: Pascal Co-Leader: Vein Aurora First Explorer: Kan0601 First Explorer: ToxicPepper Second Explorer: Alex Chairman of FA: Xi Jinping Chairman of MA: Jacob Knox Weeb General Secretary: Empiur 2iC/Head of FA: Anri On behalf of The Hive, Conscience - MinesomeMC Conscience - Alexio Conscience - Caboose Neuron of Fear - Church On behalf of Unforgiven Legion, Revan - Unforgiven Emperor Drekkza - Unforgiven Emperor Rexar - Unforgiven Emperor

This is an official, formal announcement that the alliance of Lighthouse is declaring war on the alliance of The King of the Bank. This war starts at May 27th, 2022. Lighthouse (Light) | Politics & War (politicsandwar.com) The King Of The Bank (TGB) | Politics & War (politicsandwar.com) After taking the entire bank to an unsecure offshore (we got it back), not wanting to go on trial, spamming in the Lighthouse server, and calling me McP*ssy, we have declared war. More info coming soon.

Ships are considered a defensive unit in this game. The only reasons you would use them is to either get a blockade (the main reason), or hit cities with massive infra (which is pushing it). If nations are using max ships on a nation with little to no infra, then that nation is gonna cause more damage to themselves then they would to the opponent because of the cost of resources to initiate the attack being more than the damage dealt. And after looking at your nation. I would recommend not running 2k infra per city while only having 6 cities. That isn't something you should consider till at least city 15 imo. Anyways, like others have said, ships need to be buffed or have a new mechanic introduced to them.

Ships need significant buffs, not nerfs.

I'm happy to see the hypothetical wars you chose are at least ones Clock would actually take. They like fighting as long as it's an easy kill. And that's why I liked this thread, because after you all spent the announcement one masturbating about how cool, dynamic and risk-taking you are, you came here to explain that actually the "big-norm breaking risk we knew would have extenuating consequences wasn't actually ours because big evil Syndi man practically forced us at gunpoint!!!!" I mean it's ok I didn't take your nonsense seriously to begin with, it's just funnier seeing the mask fall. "Ohhhh but even with HoF we don't think we coulda wonnnn no chance" I mean even despite tiering data not agreeing with that... Aren't y'all the supposed risk-taking innovators? Grow a fricking pair and make a chance. My preferred strategy for Duck Hunt involved mass media disinformation so that a demilled Quack got slapped by a milled HM alone that used it's tiering advantage and military in conjunction with tiers being pretty much hard-locked to still be able to win a 1:3 aggressive blitz, and hold them down. But see, that never saw the light of day because Lefty told me no one would even consider such a thing. Too dangerous. Even though the math actually reflected it was very possible, it was also very difficult and very dangerous, and you people only have the stomach to take fake risks where you know you're gonna win or where you're gonna suck yourself off about how cool you are for mass-raiding rose and getting slaughtered pointlessly or whatever. The idea any of you are "risk-takers" is laughable to me, but then I go risking permaban to fight the hegemons while you cry on forums and smack around people who had no chance to please yourself. Look, just, next time you're gonna reap the extenuating consequences I got told would make considering most of my ideas too dangerous, maybe at least have the decency to actually be half as cool and dangerous as one of the more mild ones? At least id feel like you were trying. This weird virtue signaling is getting old, and it's telling that the most interesting thing to happen in 2 years isn't one of your stupid "lul totally dynamic fun wars" but is an announcement by two spheres saying they're not fighting. All those threads about wars being boring and meaningless have been totally vindicated because the last time there was nearly 20 pages of discussion on anything was pre NPOLT days.

idk man. The forums and public chats get get a bit toxic, and some people can be pretty boastful when they have the upper hand. It's really not a big deal, it happens every war, but having a sense of disempowerment isn't great I guess? /shrug

A tale as old as time. Once-competent leaders who have run out of time to play the game, if your alliance is lucky they "retire" into an advisor position and help out now and then - but more often than not they sit in high gov chats simply to disagree with the current gov and offer contrarian opinions on the way the current people want to move forward. The exceptional retiree is great, but the usual are regressive. If you're unlucky, your leader retires mentally without ever informing anyone or actually stepping down. They gradually answer fewer pings or DM's, eventually it becomes an accepted fact that your leader checks in maybe once a day, once every other day, likely without reading most of the relevant information - and logs right back out. I've been guilty of it myself as leader or gov, everyone experiences burnout. The problem is when the retirees cling to their vestiges of power in every single alliance that the new blood can never rise to the top. It is the nature of things that newer, less experienced people come into their own time to do things their way. Stop preventing that in your alliance out of fear they'll "mess something up" because this is a browser game and competence is an illusion. 99% of alliances are trash unless their membership is hyperactive and engaged. If you want engagement then you need to do things and keep life flowing. A good gardener must cut away the dying leaves and branches to make room for new growth. That's not to say you should delete if you're old, just to say give other people a freaking chance. If you alliance is too far gone then disband and let people disperse into other communities that can benefit from the influx. Start up merger talks if you're too small to ever do anything. FREAKING RETIRE AND KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THINGS disclaimer: There are some good retirees that genuinely offer service to their alliance. Hi Adrienne.

This is completely 100% false. We had talks to back each other up in case BK and Friends hit either of us during the war or during rebuild. Edit: There were talks well BEFORE Surfs Up (?) to tackle both BK and NPO when they were still tied together, but one leader backed out so we scrapped the idea.

Another perspective of course is that the OWF’s reputation system is a good way of proving there’s a lot of sheep here! It is not an inconsiderable point though whichever way you look at it. I mean people are duped every day by prevailing opinions. Truth or accuracy in the PR war seems to be less important than the outcome’s being aimed for.

I get it was a long time ago, so I don't fault you for not remembering. But a little strong of you to go straight to a "this is not true" We considered hitting them before the logs broke. I can provide screenshots if it's alright with the people that were in the group DM with us. I'll try and help the ol' memory. There was a fear of BK hitting ahead of the log leak - which is why we were a bit miffed when KETOG hit us. The day the war kicked off we all talked about using the war as a potential smokescreen in case those rumors ended up being true, and also discussed the possibility of just hitting them based on what the situation was. (The rumored NPO/BK connection) Granted - now looking back at the logs (you had me second guessing myself lol) - it wasn't set in stone, but there were certainly discussions of all of us hitting BK & friends day 1 of Surf's Up.

Fair enough point you made with GnR but comparing it to NPOLT is absolutely ridiculous IMO. A white peace was declared and Chaos and KETOGG declared on BK and TCW because of leaks that were found out while Surf's Up was happening. If you are legit spouting the same BS that NPO did about a "fake war" to lower infra before declaring on them then I don't even know what to say to you tbh.

5th Syndi post in a row, for the haters.

I'm confused. Why is clock crying foul over a deal they themselves engineered?

How do you approach someone with a deal, and then “leak” it to the subject party, and frame it as you knowing how Keegoz operates? Wasn’t the plan to hit Rose, suggested, by you, and we only agreed to it? I might not have the full context, but, you’re saying you came with a deal, and then leaked it because you know how scummy, Keegoz is?

Throughout my lifetime in this game and my two nations I've gone from being allies, enemies, getting rolled, being allies again, being in protectorate of OWR, getting saved from that protectorate by OWR and being a member for over a year, to having your support in establishing my own alliance. It really could not matter whatever negativity anyone might bring forth about OWR. You guys, no matter it was 6 years ago or just a month back, have made this game compelling and exciting for me. I owe a lot to all of you and it breaks my heart to see you go. Orbis won't be the same.

I want to make sure I understand, since I am but a lowly Johnson. I thought you previously claimed that the formation of Celestial was to counter the GG high-tier stranglehold - but this whole time it was Clock who convinced t$'s allies to dip?

If you were truly forced into this whole situation of hitting Rose, that implies to me that you didn't want to do it. If you *really* didn't want to do it, then why didn't you just leak the logs to Rose, hit BW with Rose, leak the logs as CB, and explain your actions to everyone. The fact that you went through with the plan of hitting Rose implies to me that you were always interested in hitting Rose, whether it was "forced" upon you or not. If you truly did not appreciate the actions of BW, then why didn't you choose to punish them?

kjhbdfsbvhkefs(1)(1)(1).mp4 FINAL EDIT I SWEAR!

When your self-interests lead back to bipolarity, or even one would argue, to the formation of an hegemony whenever it suits them de facto killing the game, I think you should start putting yourself back in question.