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You're always going to miss out on some important cases when you reduce entire alliances to such a simple little qualifier. But for the most part I think of upper tier alliances as composed of larger nations (16-18 cities plus/over 3k ns or so). If your alliance is JUST those nations, you're definitely upper tier. TKR is a good example of where that labeling system falls apart, because they are huge, but their tiering is all over the place. I wouldn't call them an upper tier alliance in the same breath I'd call something like Guardian one. I'd probably call TKR "An alliance that has an upper tier" rather than "an upper tier alliance".

I'm sure you are having fun, but it's poor form to brag about being 'gud' when it's Guardian, tC, HS, and t$ vs a 14 man micro. That's not being 'good' and it makes mechanical sense that they can't fight back.

It's a double edged sword my friend, impressed though some may be. I was talking to a girl on tinder once, whereupon I let slip that "I lead an alliance in a browser based nation simulator, and I'm kind of a big deal." It must have so impressed her that she became too shy to continue the conversation, because she stopped messaging. Such is the burden we bear.

I would define upper tier as the highest city count for people in the range where the fights happen. So right now I'd say 18-23 perhaps a bit higher. I'm not sure average city count is relevant so much as how many people are available to fight in particular ranges. Top 20 Alliances by 18-20, 21-23, 24-26 and 27-33 respectively. So TKR, TCW, Rose, The Syndicate, Guardian, TEst, The Golden Horde, Church of Spaceology, Knights Templar, etc. Obviously some alliances are upper tier, but have a low member count, so they won't rank as highly on this list as say TKR, who has a tonne of members in all ranges.

Damn y'all. You did it. You got us to agree with TRF. Peace on Earth. Bless up.

I'd like to see some sort of punishment for people who systematically call an entire alliance (KT) Nazis. Not holding my breath because it's apparent some people / groupings enjoy special treatment around these parts.

Deep in the uninhabited region of Oklo, Atom has graced us with the natural fission reactors for worship. He brought in workers before us to mine out the corridors of His house so that when we found Him, we would have a place of our own. Three shrines have been erected to celebrate the three prophets who brought us word of His holy name. Today we announce and declare ourselves the official Church of Atom, led by His Holiness Pontifex Atomicus James II, advised by: Cardinal Kitchie, Head of State Affairs Cardinal Johnny Costello, Head of Security Cardinal Keza Purple, Head of the Interior Cardinal Soxirella, Head of the Treasury Atom does not only love those in His house. All nations who build a church in His honor and accept Atomism as their official state religion will be looked upon favorably by both Atom and the Church. As such, the Church has decided to name leaders of the faith in some alliances to guide and aid the respective followers. Bishop Mhearl - Rose Bishop Partisan - The Syndicate Bishop Connor Yeets - Nuclear Knights Bishop WSxPhoenix - Polaris Bishop Yoda - Dark Brotherhood Bishop Lordship - The Knights Radiant All worshipers will revere the three prophets that led us to our Lord. The following have been beatified through the power of our Lord vested in His Holiness, Pontifex Atomicus James II: Placentica, patron saint of Neutrons Rollo, patron saint of Electrons Apeman, patron saint of Nukes and Protons The following alliance(s) are also recognized as official followers of the faith. Nuclear Knights Praise be to Atom! Signed: His Holiness Pontifex Atomicus James II Cardinal Kitchie Cardinal Johnny Costello Cardinal Keza Purple Cardinal Soxirella

Welp, this is exactly what I've been trying to avoid. People making generalizations based on something (which was obviously very wrong, Thalmor needs to be severely punished) a single person has done. You (Kosmo) and W don't know KT nearly as well as I do. I'd encourage you to get to know them better before calling them all Nazis. On another note, is this what you want for your game, @Alex? People trying to turn it into the disgusting OOC garbage filled cesspool that is CN? We as a community should make sure things don't get OOC. When someone like Thalmor does a very serious OOC attack, there's only one thing to do: punish him accordingly and don't let it extrapolate in-game. On the other hand, we have someone who used it for in-game benefits, having deliberately deceived and lied to the admin after having received special treatment, which was only possible because someone's identity was revealed, when that shouldn't have happened. I honestly fear for the future of this game, the way things are going.

To be fair to both sides, neither side said a damn thing either way until someone not even related to the fight posted about it.

Don't worry. I know him from CN. He was never relevant until all the "old gods" who he reveres were long gone and he got his shot at relevance. Victory by default.

Firstly I don't care for nor support Nazi's or anything similar, before you start running your mouth about me. Secondly you're tarnishing the entire alliance with the same brush as the one you use to tarnish Thalmor. Thalmor deserves everything that comes his way and that has come this way. However that doesn't mean that the entire alliance of KT is a bunch of Nazi nut jobs. Like unless you have concrete evidence proving otherwise, at which point take it to the moderation team. I won't be tarnishing the entire alliance of KT as a Nazi grouping, and nor should anyone else. A lot of them are very likely innocent in all of this and shouldn't have their reputations ruined because of one person. Thirdly Thalmor while his identity was revealed by Alex. He has since made a post stating that he made a mistake by trusting the player he told. You're entitled to your own thoughts on the matter but that's an issue with you and Alex take it up with him. Finally I echo what I said at the start incase you happen to not notice it. I don't support Nazi's I don't care for them and they have absolutely zero place here. It's also my honest opinion that this thread has actually gone on for far too long and that it needs to calm down.

>buorhann > Rickky >Alkaline Goodluck man.

Taking a break from all the salt on the other thread, here's a good pairing: On today's news Guardian is hitting Oblivion for attacking and spying on tC. Could tC have more than just their old tS treaty or is this a case of tS calling up Guardian to defend tC? Either way, there's a conflict without a proper Alliance Affairs announcement. Now back to the salt flats. Also Rose dropped Oblivion protection. Happy raiding raiders.

Oblivion just said 10 nations. That was easy.

Lmao your 9 year old buttmad angst is seeping. “what the frick, you dont have "great friends" they supplied like 10 nations out of like 150 possible” ? Gotta love this thread > wah, 150 v 14 injustice!!!! vs > only 10 extra nations from your side you guys sux

Idk if it's just my display, but it says you quoted Kastor, yet Kastor never said some of these things and to add to it, it doesn't make sense once you get to counter-point 6.

If only there was a way to do more damage then you take while still getting your ass kicked. Praise be to Atom you !@#$

I never played CN in a serious manner and almost always did it as a favour to become a tech farm for someone in this game or one of the others I've played. I didn't do much in them because the game was boring, the politics was dying and I was already busy with this game. The only thing that kept my interest was watching the drama in MI6. Not entirely sure I care about your criticisms though, everyone on that list has been more successful than you have been. Which honestly is amazing because Clarke is on it.

Very nice man. Must be nice to fly a flag that doesn't look like shite, too. :p

PaPeRlEsS TiEs

It seems like PW has gotten even more segmented between lower tiered alliances and upper tier ones. My question is what would you list as an upper tier alliance or those with a large upper tier? My current list would be: The Knights Radiant The Commonwealth Guardian Pantheon (even though they have low avg. str, they still have a large upper) Rose Church of Spaceology The Syndicate Grumpy Old Bastards Terminus Est The Coalition Maybe Fark and CoA? What is your list? (additions: KT, TGH, Tesla, SK, Fark, CoA)

Ame was an incredibly kind individual and brightened everyone's day up when she was on Discord In honor of Ame quitting, post your favorite Ame screenshots so everyone else can see how wonderful she was @Ameyuri, you will be missed https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=79805

Please do. Your public demands it! ETA: also use 100 words or more.

Im debating whether i should be puffing my chest more on behalf of tS to fit in/fit the description.

TKR has 38% of upper tier nations therefore TKR is an upper tier alliance Humans and bananas have 60% of DNA in common therefore bananas are primates

Quoting myself

TKR is trying so hard to not be seen as the upper tier juggernaut they are, and have been for awhile.

G'day yall. I'm Ruggsy from BK and I'm a hot prospect looking for big experiences. just getting back into this stuff again after a very long hiatus. My main goal in making this post is that someone recognizes me and says hey. I played CN for years through enough alliances that I have no clue what they were anymore (thats a lie I remember a few). Shoutout to londo and jgoods my OGest of peeps. For those who don't know me (so probably every person who looks at this) My 'things' are music (mainly into hip hop and bagpipe stuff), photoshoppin, rocket league, manager games and throwing my life away. Feel free to hit me up about any of these topics As for PnW I'm a new proud member of the Black Knights , hopefully yall will see some more of me

you are an ignorent dipshit we dont care to fight back we know we are going to get rolled and we are honestly overdue a roll anyway, look at our nation stats you will see whats up, now compare them to yours we dont just sit there and then just sit on the hypetrain and join a war 3 days late and claim we are the best because we havent lost any infra, we start wars and take risks and sometimes they dont work out, you sit thier pixelhugging all day and then only take wars you cant lose, that is not being good at wars, feel free to hit me up on discord to argue this more also shifty i love u as always

Large: Anybody who can outright destroy DB in a one to one fight Small: Everyone else

Lead us to the light, oh great keyboard warrior! Your high level of relevancy and massive schlong will surely smite thy enemies and bring us to the light of an age long since past! I'm working on memorializing the 111,000+ Poles killed 81 years ago from this upcoming Saturday. Though they were killed under the Hammer and Sickle. It was an act of genocide, really. Most were ethnically Polish or had Polish sounding last names. I hope we can all come together and condemn authoritarianism in all forms. You have these authoritarians operating in plain sight. Not only are they parading an insignia which over a hundred million were killed in the name of "progress", they have a known anti-Semite on their flag. Where's the wars and condemnation against these racists and murderers?

I have no stake in the war or the results of it. What I do though is in how Alex deals with harassment cases. I posit that, because of the call outs earlier in the thread, he doubled down on protecting folks anonymity even if its OOC'ily harming another player. I do believe what he did in this case here, should be him creating a standard for responses to victims of harassment through his half-baked mechanics. My worry isn't if Thalmor repeats the situation. It is if any other player does the same. Thalmor I do not believe would be the last player to try to use in-game mechanics to harass a player OOC'ily, and I do believe @Alex has the opportunity to set a standard that involves transparency and protecting the victims more than protecting his coding system tbh. If he wants to protect anonymity at all costs, I suggest using bounties to OOC'ily harass player should lead to a permanent ban from the game, not a strike. Either he uses a heavy hand, or if he wishes to warn players, then be transparent about it. This apology and middling reaction can create a sub-optimal outcome in how he and other moderators look to handle harassment cases. EDIT: Grammar.

That here is the major problem. By allowing folks to not know who's harassing them is faulty logic. Tbh I'd prefer a system where rule breakers in an OOC sphere are made public to ensure the bounty system does not exist to shield them from those they are harassing. By punishing them and well not letting their victims know, I feel falls short of any perceivable standards. Knowing one's harassers isn't using OOC moderation against their IG opponents. Thats an extrapolation based on the actions of one player and one player only. To grief an entire community by protecting the identities of folks who're going after folks OOC'ily via an IG mechanism and protected by anonymity does nothing. Alex should be transparent about the folks he's punishing rather than hiding them. If they committed a violation, they don't deserve the same level of anonymity as other folks who have been abiding by the rules of the game and the bounty system.

You have missed the point. I was arguing "All these timers do is benefit older nations by putting a hard cap on how quickly alliances or groups of new players can boost each other up." This is why I said that at the beginning, and not the end. I think the point Mikey made is a pseudo "It's the Patriarchy" argument. Whales would rightfully be pissed if such a change occured, as it would take away from their achievement. And it has defined their gameplay, in the literal sense. That's the gameplay of the game. I think you forget the time where there were always city timers and having 7 cities was considered mid tier? What hurdles? Waiting 10 days to buy a city? You consider that a hurdle? Please read the rest of what I wrote. Even though I didn't make that point and you're being dyslexic, I'll follow up with that in my next point. I will entertain your argument. Not so long ago we have talked about removing city timers until city 20, remember? So Alex compromised and removed timers until city 10. Before that, it was city 5. He's decreased the cost of cities in the low tier and a long time ago he has also reduced the cost of infra. Saying that we're not far away from removing the cap on credits is not outlandish at all, we are heading in that direction, I am genuinely surprised you're willing to make any compromise on core game mechanics to appeal to the lower tier. You are calling me disingenuous yet you're acting like the fact I was being hyperbolic has flown over your head. Going back to the previous thing, yes, credits are a viable solution if you think "if they have cash, more power to them!". Just buy 8 credits, reset your timer 2 times and buy 2 cities, I think that's a much better solution than causing a game breaking rift that is and will be abused to hell by every alliance in the top 5, just so you can buy yourselves and your mates up to 20 cities. The difference is whether it's progression and time invested in the game, or something you get given for free. I think you are completely missing the main point of my argument which I repeated 3 times. It's game balance. You're forgetting what makes a nation sim fun to play. 1. Roleplay: Indulgence in FA discussion, rivalries, friendships, ingame characters, and a sense of community. 2. The Sense of Progression (what we're talking about here): Something to look forward to, and feeling like you're growing. Waking up and feeling excited to buy a city, getting your 2000 infra for the first time and wondering what manufactured resources you're going to make, getting that shiny new 90 aircraft, seeing your warchest size increase. These are all integral parts of the game's progression. Removing all of that and just shoveling money down your throat will ultimately ruin your experience and decrease your retention and dedication to the game. When has getting everything for free without a sense of slow, grinding progression resulted to you enjoying the game more? 3. Fulfillment: Looking back at how hard you worked to get what you have and seeing your nation stand out above others. This is why we're enchanted when looking at war stats, alliance graphs going up or even simply refreshing your nation to check your soldiers killed count going up. The difference between being in a micro and being in a top 5 alliance is that they are 2 completely different environments, and shouldn't be treated as the same game. When you're in a micro, you're creating something new, and you've consciously signed up to the fact that your alliance is top 80 and that they won't grow you. You've made a conscious choice, nobody forced you to do it. The line where that changes is when large alliances have to shovel money down their members to compete with other alliances that are doing the same, at that point, micros are far worse off for obvious reasons. "Removing city timers would make it cheaper for and more accessible to micros" Would you care to explain how? And also, without your point even making sense, you've just contradicted yourself. You were literally arguing the "Well saving up for a city lasts longer than 10 days, so they're already meaningless" point a second ago.

Fun Fact of IRL Buorhann: I put in my resume that I had great leadership skills of organizing multiple players in a online game (DAoC during this time) without having to interact with them in person to overcome obstacles (PvE Raids or PvP groups) on a resume. Managed to land a management job that paid over than entry level pay as my first job with it. The interview was actually very interesting when that came up, haha.

Many of us never bothered to get involved with gov if we played that game at all, or else simply were not into nations sims before CN became a complete dumpster fire. I'd be curious to know what you consider a "real challenge" that existed in CN compared to here. On a military and actual in-game level I'd say we've seen plenty of situations that required creative thinking and competence, as much as any situation there. Perhaps the politics aren't as intricate, but I don't know that I would agree with that for all the games history. On a smaller scale, sure, but CN and nation sims were a different game in 2008, membership wise, compared to now. I'm not convinced that this game, were it to ever hit similar player numbers, would not be equally as interesting. In any case I find the dichotomy funny considering its a browser nation sim. Nobody went through any real "challenges" in these games lol. Certainly not the point I would hold them up as inspiration IRL or put in on my CV...

By informing someone who was harassed who did it is not something Alex should apologise for. Tbh he should apologise for not ensuring the bounty system will not be used for harassing players in game and publicly announcing all of the folks he's warning for carrying out OOC harassment through IG mechanics.

Good riddance. It was bad enough having TI by themselves, I can't imagine what it would be like have 3 more uncoordinated alliances going rogue and screwing things up for alliances that actually know how to do an alliance war.

Indeed, the fact that you're still allowed to post proves my point.

Whales and old timers all had to endure city timers from city 1 to however many cities they are at now (Looking at Seb, Belisarius and Don Juan), and removing something that defined their gameplay and made them adapt just because we think it's now obsolete will obviously hurt those players as they had to invest time and be patient, in something that now everybody can get a shortcut to. Also, city timers extend content. From a game perspective, removing city timers is a horrible idea. We have credits, and without timers you can just spam buy cities if you're in the low/mid tier. I know we all dick around and troll Sheepy, but he didn't design this game to be pay to win. I'm actually really proud that he didn't sell out like the CN admin, and knowing this game won't sell out in the future just makes it more appealing. Are we supposed to suggest removing credit caps after this so that everyone with a fat paypal account can have 30 cities now? It also allows larger alliances to shove money down their member's throats for growth, while micros don't have that privilege. Individual performances become less important, whats the point of playing the market for 10 hours a day when TKR/BK/TCW/NPO will just drop 500mil-1bil on you over 2 months. Coming back that, at that point the most efficient way to play the game is to just tax everyone a 100% and run a full command economy, trying to spend as much money as possible for long term benefit. You're talking about risk as a high deterrent, but risk is manageable. If you spread the risk over a hundred investments and 1/3 of them fail, you're still ahead of everyone else, and you've still made a huge profit. Than you have to think about content in general. I don't mind project timers being removed that much, it wouldn't give anyone a significant advantage. But cities are literally all of the content in this game during peace. Buying through cities fast makes you miss a lot of content and grinding it instead makes you fulfilled when you see your nation. If we keep removing cooldowns on everything, it will defeat the purpose of the game, as Alex put those timers there for a reason. A majority of the alliances currently in the top 20 or even 30 would be at a high disadvantage and have to adapt, as city timers provide breathing room where we can teach the players how to play the game at a slower pace, slowly balancing tiers and having a reason to why you grow during peace. I think an integral part of alliance's strategies in this game is to grow during peace to be ready for the next war, that's what most IA/Econ/Milcom planning really revolves around. If I know that we'll be fighting IQ in the next 2 weeks, why wouldn't I just dish out 10bil to grow a fat low tier of 14 city nations that give me a vital advantage, defeating the whole purpose of IQs tiers and whole war strategy that they built for 2 years? You're not thinking about it the right way. You're thinking about it in the mindset of "Well it takes a lot more than 10 days to save up and buy a city, so why is the timer there in the first place?". That's not the point of the cooldown. The point of the timer being there at all is so that you can't instantly buy as many cities as you want if you have the cash. It's there for balance reasons, so that there is a sense of slow progression. So that alliances can't dump money during war to improve their chances, and instead have to plan during peace. So that there is breathing room for players, and so that there can be a numerous amount of systems that all work just as well, for a wide range of alliances.

She also made miniature flags for all alliances and idk if she ever posted it: On a serious note, I tried poaching Ame for 3 months before she joined Rose. And I've also never genuinely cried when I saw someone's nation page. When I saw the pastebin I had genuine tears because I never got to say goodbye to her. She was the kind of person you could hit up at any time and would make you feel better. She made everyone around her happy, and a lot of people, me included, will miss that sort of personality in a game like this, and hope our bork returns to us one day.

James' Don't taint the holy posts with your grammatical frailty!

You really listed Alkaline instead of Kastor? You're slipping.

That literally does not matter and is 5 billion % irrelevant to the fact that you are, infact, war deserters.

Our permanent CB against islamic alliances refers to theme and not actual Muslims in membership IRL. The Imperial Guard is from Warhammer 40K lore, so you guys are good in that department. Besides, you guys aren't even worth hitting. Your alliance is comprised of war deserters. You would fold after 3 rounds.

Just when I thought Walmart couldn't get any worse, I find out they support Genocide too! What is this world coming to....

14 = 14 words, was described here previously. We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children. Pretty sure Thalmor only asked Queen M in in a subtle way to protect white children together. He even used the term "our people", to not only include everyone, but to promote the socialist values of his intention. Not sure what this sentence alone could mean otherwise ? Btw... racism isn't directly against the rules, only harassment and nazism. 88 is pretty obvious, and a strike can be seen as justified (according to the rules). Seeing racism though, in combination with either the words that are behind 14 and behind 88 are pretty farfetched. Anyone here that says we shouldn't secure the existence of our people and a future for children that have a white skin color? Come on, guys, anyone? Let's see who's racist here. And while "Heil H*tler" is nazism, no "race" should feel insulted by that. That's clearly, at most, a subjective feeling. Real Kindergarden here, get some backbone and counter-bounty Thalmor with some hidden BLM or MLK lines or whatever, i'm sure he won't break down at home, drowning in his own tears.

National Grid Description Allows cities to be powered by infrastructure located elsewhere. Effect: If a city doesn't have sufficient power from its own improvements, it can draw power from other cities. Will only function if other cities have enough spare power capacity to power the city in question, for example if a city has 2k infra and no power, and the sum of all of the excess power in all of the other cities is 1,950, then the city will remain unpowered. If the excess power of the other cities is 2k or above then the city without power is fully powered. If multiple cities are unpowered, then they will be powered in increasing order of infrastructure (lowest infra powered first) and then in decreasing order of age (oldest first) for cities with the same amount of infra. Cost: Probably around 100mil, this project would be quite effective in war time in protecting cities from power plant loss, so the price should reflect that.

While we're at it, @Alex can you code me an AI that wars better so I stop losing so much?